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Need help for a 1500pt tournament

C.A.D (Iron Hands)
Terminator Captain
- Cati Armor
- Combi Plasma
- Shield Eternal

Terminator Captain
- Cati Armor
- Gorgan's Chain

Command Squad
- Plasma Gun 5x
- Apothicary

Devistators
- Plasma Cannon x2
- Grav Cannon x2
- Grav Pistol
- Drop Pod

Techmarine
- Combi Grav

Scout Squad
- Camo Cloaks

Scout Squad

C.A.D (Grey Knights)
Captain Stern

Librarian
- Lv 3
- Domina Liber

Strike Squad x2


This list is designed for an upcoming tourney at the 1500 pt level. The group I'm up against is a meta-heavy crew. (Lots of eldar/ super friends/ tau drone spam) Most of the missions will be objective / killpoints. I've got 2 scout squads to combo with techmarine cover boosts to sit on objectives, and 2 teleporting grey knight squads to assault/ grab late game objectives. The real "Cheese" here is the combination of the Iron Hands termie captains ans Sanctuary. Thanks to cati armor, their 3++ becomes a 2++ rerollable with sanct, followed by FNP. Both will have eternal warrior + IWND so to bring one down it should take 300+ shots (les than s8) 100+ shots greater than s8 and 1 in 6 devistator shots. Thoughts?
I should note that we are not using the beta SM faq's.

Thats a clever idea. So the Catapratchi termie armour allows you to reroll saving throws of 1? Interesting. Nice idea...

Well, I need something that can deal with wraithknight spam. I used to ally in guardsmen to tie them up in close combat. Stomp makes this wasteful though. Indestructibility seems to be the only way to go.

I'm sure this combo will be FAQ'd in the future, but as it stands the cati captian has a 4++ with re rolling 1's. A storm shield (or relic) makes this a 3++ rr1 so adding sanctuary makes it a 2++ rr1. It's entirely bs but it may work.

Neat trick, I like it.

Thoughts:

Why mix and match heavy weapons? Plas cannons in a Pod are not great as they cant fire on the turn they arrive (due to snap firing). Unless ofc you run one of the IH cat termis in the unit giving them SNP (which I assume you would).

I'd also be looking to find points for a delivery system on the command squad. With SNP (from the other IH cat termi who I assume is tanking wounds for them), they'll be incredibly slow. Maybe drop the grav pistol (way too expensive imo) and the combi weapons / a plas gun to find the points.

Otherwise I nice list, I certainly like the ideas - will be interesting to see how it plays

I plan to be putting the second Captain in the Devistators, so they will have a tank and S&P. Also that'll force my opponent to waste a lot of shots if he wants to kill the grav guns. The plas cannons are the only thing I have for Horde control.

As for mobility, with the dominus liber and lv 3 the GN librarian will have 5 powers on the satanic table (inc primarius) It's likely, not guaranteed, but likely, he'll end up with Gate to infinity as well as sanctuary.

MattKing wrote:
I plan to be putting the second Captain in the Devistators, so they will have a tank and S&P. Also that'll force my opponent to waste a lot of shots if he wants to kill the grav guns. The plas cannons are the only thing I have for Horde control.

As for mobility, with the dominus liber and lv 3 the GN librarian will have 5 powers on the satanic table (inc primarius) It's likely, not guaranteed, but likely, he'll end up with Gate to infinity as well as sanctuary.

Fair enough. I didn't consider Gate.

I am considering adding Coteaz from the Inq codex. Relatively low points cost for a TEQ character and he's guaranteed to have Sanctuary.

Drop all of the plasma guns for grav guns on the command squad.
Never take pistols, 2 auspexs and a melta bomb would be a million times better, especially since the dev sergeant should never be shooting anyway. Drop the Techmarine for 2 more grav cannons, against even semi-meta armies +1 cover won't help.

With 5 shots each grav cannons will do more than plasma for crowd control and won't risk nuking your own model.
With 3 shots each grav guns are better than plasma against pretty much anything with armor, I would only suggest doing plasma if you play in a demon heavy meta. If you do take plasma and plan on gating that squad instead of DP, put the second captain on a bike with artificer armor, +1 T is comparable defensively to rerolling ones(WAY better against S8-S9) and makes him and his squad a lot more flexible(allows overwatch, can go solo a lot more effectively).

Finally, keep in mind that practically speaking no good army is actually going to be shooting at the Cataphractii Termi in the dev squad, even with careful positioning. They move around him and plink off the cannons so when they come down they better come down HARD.

First off, Thank you for your advice, I'll be taking it about the pistol and techmarine. I'd like to apologize about how this next part sounds, as I'm going to tear everything else apart. I really don't mean any offence, I just like to mathhammer

Plas vs Grav:
For infantry plas is going to cause 6 wounds per 10 shots (10 x (2/3) x (5/6)) against everything up to T6. If the squad doesn't move or has S&P grav will cause 8 against TEQ, 6 against MEQ and 4 or less against everything else (eldar, tau, IG, nec, ork, ect) plas is also insta death against anything t3 or less (eldar, tau, IG ect) while grav has no S value and a shorter range.
Grav's only really better against terminators. If you move your men, it doesn't even have that.

For vehicles: Grav is only better at av 13 or greater. Yes, you cause double wounds after the first, but you only wound on a 6, while for all armor under av13 plas will wound twice as much or more (at av 12 plas kills on a 5 or 6 negating grav's extra wound) Positioning helps for plas here because you can often turn that 5,6 into a 3+ by shooting at another side of the tank.
Grav's only really better against Land raiders.


" +1 T is comparable defensively to rerolling ones(WAY better against S8-S9)"
Well... no, Not in any situation.
increasing your t by 1 gives you a 17% increase in survivability against S1-S6 wounds, grants fnp against 8,9 and does nothing at 10 or D. for S7-D they're still killing you on a 2+ most of which is ap2. So against a S1-9 shot with AP you'd have your invuln 3++ and FNP 4++ You'd loose 1 in 12 wounds. S10 would net you saving 2 in 3 wounds, same with D.
This is a re roll-able 2++ so no matter what you get hit with you come to the table saving 35/36 wounds. with your same 4+ FNP (admittedly only S1-S7) you save 71/72 wounds. Gorgan's chain turns that into 143/144 wounds. There's just no way a t5 can is better than 2++ rr. Since both captians have EW the only thing they fear is a SD shot that rolls a 6 and removes them from play. T10 Won't save you from that though.

Positioning is a major list weakness but not as much as it might be because most of the missions are objective. As long as the unkillable guy is still there I'm at least contesting.