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So, I understand buying supplements because Battlesribe doesn't have them all yet, but I can get all the information I need to build and use an army from Battlescribe. So is there a good reason to pay the 56 bucks for a codex?

You should have your codex for referencing when playing, to address rules issues specific to your army.

I personally don't care if you think you know what your rules are, you better be able to show me the rule in question.

SJ

There isn't really a point, especially considering they're all available as PDF's. Not that I'd ever condone piracy over GW's ripoff prices of course.....

me, I got codexs for the background and fluff.

because there are these sticklers who play at tournaments who demand you to have the physical rule book. If you show up with a xerox printout or access it as a pdf on your ipad, they can call the judge and kick you out.

A GW store can tell about copy right infringement if you show up in their stores with a xerox print out or a pdf. They will tell you that your piracy cheated GW from earning money to write better rules. I dont think GW deserves a single penny from me as long as they continue write these bad rules and stuff their rule books full of fluff.

These people also like to frequent any flgs. and often find their way into any gaming club. They will tell you that its not fair that they had to pay for a book and that you downloaded it illegally and printed it out or view it as a pdf.

I greatly dislike these kind of people. They greatly dislike me. I dont play with these people. I no longer join any sponsored events because there are so many of these people who look at me funny for using a xerox copy or show them the rules to my army on my ipad. I dont need to play with these people who feel that I should pay as much as they have.

I won't judge you on where you get your copy, but you should have the actual codex with you. Battlescribe is often out of date and with the advent of new detachments and stuff is often wrong on what you can and cannot take. And given this hobby's inclination on dissecting every single word in the rulebook, saying "that's what it sounds like" will probably get you dogpiled. Having the exact wording on hand is always handy.

In addition, in most cases it's your responsibility to provide your opponent with all the relevent rules you're using. This includes any FAQs or erratas. If you bring a Ravenwing Detachment with someone other than Sammael leading it, your opponent is actually in full right to call your army unbound unless you can provide him with a copy of the FAQ from the website. It's a dickish thing to do if he does know about it, but it's basically your word that there was such an errata if he doesn't know about it.

If you have an epub on android, I don't think there is any quick way of telling if it is legit.

It depends on who you are playing with, and what your motivations are I suppose. If you just want to have fun pushing models around in your basement, you could use Battlescribe. Or no rules. Or make up your own rules. Whatever, anything goes. If you are playing with people at a game store, which sells products like models, paint and codices to keep the lights on, they might have a problem with you not actually owning the codex. Even if you didn't buy it there, using Battlescribe or photocopies might raise some eyebrows. Again, depends on your FLGS. In a tournament setting, you will probably be expected to have a physical or digital copy of the codex. And be able to reference rules in the codex if your opponents ask for clarification.

If you are just wanting to take a peek at the contents of a codex to see if it is an army you want to play before spending out then I see no harm in pdfs or whatever. But if you are committed enough to spend time and money on a bunch of models I don't really see how one can be so cheap to not to get the codex also. If you want to save a few quid, then buy it second hand.. ebay or other.

Sorry, that's honestly what I meant, was buying a codex then hating the army. If I buy a bunch of SM and make them IF I can always repaint them as BA, but that codex is forever. Like a damned tattoo. I just forked out the 50 bucks for a eBay SM codex.

I'm pretty easygoing, but I've gotta say my pet peeve is people trying to look army rules and statlines for a 100 pages codex on a 4 inch phone screen. Especially if they're new/unfamiliar with the rules.

If you must pirate the codex, at least pay a buck or two to print it out. Because it's just rude to pause the game to spend minutes thumbing on a phone screen when you could look it up in seconds on paper.

At the absolute minimum, have a tablet or laptop, not a phone.

The most Battlescribe does is become a reference for a couple of formation rules if I forget. Otherwise, you need the codex for when you're playing.

Well, it gives you all the stats as well, so printing out your specific list is nice. It also gives you the page number for each rule.

HCMistborn wrote:
Sorry, that's honestly what I meant, was buying a codex then hating the army. If I buy a bunch of SM and make them IF I can always repaint them as BA, but that codex is forever. Like a damned tattoo. I just forked out the 50 bucks for a eBay SM codex.

You can always sell it back on ebay.. Maybe for a bit less depending on how much a hurry you are in to be rid of it.

Most people won't care in a casual match if you just wanna "test out" an army. But once you commit, you really should get the book. Again, Battlescribe can be flat out wrong in some cases, and being commited to an army you'd really want to know everything there is to know about them because some of the best combos come from weird rule combinations (mtg players will know what i'm talking about. Especially those that got punched to death by a sentient mountain wearing a literal thinking cap).

Grief wrote:b
A GW store can tell about copy right infringement if you show up in their stores with a xerox print out or a pdf. They will tell you that your piracy cheated GW from earning money to write better rules. I

So does this mean we all pirated the books because the rules surely didn't become better.

Grief wrote:
because there are these sticklers who play at tournaments who demand you to have the physical rule book. If you show up with a xerox printout or access it as a pdf on your ipad, they can call the judge and kick you out.

A GW store can tell about copy right infringement if you show up in their stores with a xerox print out or a pdf. They will tell you that your piracy cheated GW from earning money to write better rules. I dont think GW deserves a single penny from me as long as they continue write these bad rules and stuff their rule books full of fluff.

These people also like to frequent any flgs. and often find their way into any gaming club. They will tell you that its not fair that they had to pay for a book and that you downloaded it illegally and printed it out or view it as a pdf.

I greatly dislike these kind of people. They greatly dislike me. I dont play with these people. I no longer join any sponsored events because there are so many of these people who look at me funny for using a xerox copy or show them the rules to my army on my ipad. I dont need to play with these people who feel that I should pay as much as they have.

Yeah, I'm sure there isn't another perspective on this and those people are just being irrational jerks (/s)

Do you play your games somewhere besides a game store that sells those books? Do you play your tournaments somewhere besides a store that sells those books?

If your answer to either question is "no" then don't expect the owners and other players to not take your pirating a codex as a slap in the face. It's one thing when someone's philosophy is "I'd rather spend my hobby budget on the miniatures/paints" and the players and store owner know that. That's often the case with newer players. But the dudes that just dust off a 10+ year old collection, complain loudly about how imbalanced everything is and how they'll never spend another cent until everything goes back to how it was in the mid-90s when everything was perfect, pirate their codex and whine and moan about how we can't just play (edition they started in) instead of the current rules?

Unless you're playing house/garagehammer, the reason you're able to play at all is the store you're playing at. Buying something fairly regularly, whether that's books or miniatures, is a completely fair expectation from the people giving you that capability, supplying you with tables and terrain that frequently cost many times more than your army, and hosting events for you.

I think we all understand the concept of "they're a business, they provide and you choose to buy". I wasn't condoning pirating of the Codexes(although I wish you could buy them in a pack, and get the digital one for like ten bucks more, like with Blu Rays). I was genuinely curious about how much more a codex contained than formations and stats, which are available through several apps, and if people really bought into them without having experience with the army. It's a big investment, a whole army I mean. So, while those game stores may host the events, and they provide products, I think it was fair of me to ask about where to invest, a 5 dollar third party app or a 50 dollar book. I can tell you that off brand soda tastes the same to me. I ended up buying my Codex anyway, since I like owning physical books, but it was a valid question worth discussing, just like the constant discussion of GW saying they're a collectible company first, game company second. It's a never ending discussion with a million opinions.

I will never "own" a digital copy of anything. Mainly because nothing beats the satisfaction of holding actual print and being able to find a rule 10x faster than scrolling though a tablet or phone. I have yet to met someone who could find a rule faster than I can flip to the page (but it helps that I have the basic structure of the book memorized, and my books are tabbed).

A couple other reasons are fluff, Battlescribe can be (and has been) VERY wrong in the past, and overall it isn't that hard to Photoshop a different wording or points cost for something that is digital. Print is just more reliable and satisfying.

Davor wrote:

Grief wrote:b
A GW store can tell about copy right infringement if you show up in their stores with a xerox print out or a pdf. They will tell you that your piracy cheated GW from earning money to write better rules. I

So does this mean we all pirated the books because the rules surely didn't become better.

What i am saying is that before I had to flush $100 on a Forgeworld Codex that had 2 armies and 200 pages of fluff, I had a pdf and printed out the rules for my personal use and never sold it. People on this site gave me so much crap saying, "So you ILLEGALLY DOWNLOADED A PDF? YOU SHOULD GO TO JAIL FOR PIRACY!" many of you dakkanuts are just trolls who like to piss people off.

the_scotsman wrote:

Grief wrote:
because there are these sticklers who play at tournaments who demand you to have the physical rule book. If you show up with a xerox printout or access it as a pdf on your ipad, they can call the judge and kick you out.

A GW store can tell about copy right infringement if you show up in their stores with a xerox print out or a pdf. They will tell you that your piracy cheated GW from earning money to write better rules. I dont think GW deserves a single penny from me as long as they continue write these bad rules and stuff their rule books full of fluff.

These people also like to frequent any flgs. and often find their way into any gaming club. They will tell you that its not fair that they had to pay for a book and that you downloaded it illegally and printed it out or view it as a pdf.

I greatly dislike these kind of people. They greatly dislike me. I dont play with these people. I no longer join any sponsored events because there are so many of these people who look at me funny for using a xerox copy or show them the rules to my army on my ipad. I dont need to play with these people who feel that I should pay as much as they have.

Yeah, I'm sure there isn't another perspective on this and those people are just being irrational jerks (/s)

Do you play your games somewhere besides a game store that sells those books? Do you play your tournaments somewhere besides a store that sells those books?

If your answer to either question is "no" then don't expect the owners and other players to not take your pirating a codex as a slap in the face. It's one thing when someone's philosophy is "I'd rather spend my hobby budget on the miniatures/paints" and the players and store owner know that. That's often the case with newer players. But the dudes that just dust off a 10+ year old collection, complain loudly about how imbalanced everything is and how they'll never spend another cent until everything goes back to how it was in the mid-90s when everything was perfect, pirate their codex and whine and moan about how we can't just play (edition they started in) instead of the current rules?

Unless you're playing house/garagehammer, the reason you're able to play at all is the store you're playing at. Buying something fairly regularly, whether that's books or miniatures, is a completely fair expectation from the people giving you that capability, supplying you with tables and terrain that frequently cost many times more than your army, and hosting events for you.

I never said jerks, I said sticklers. I said I no longer join any sponsored events because many of these people are so uptight that even when I show them my codex which I paid $100 ($20 to be shipped from Britain) they still have the nerve to say it's an illegal copy, scratching my cover or feeling the pages roughly for counterfeit. Forget you people who think you are better than me because you have more money than me. I hope all you dakkanuts continue to drop hundreds of dollars to support GW like the 100,000 pyskers sacrificed to keep the carrion emperor alive.

There's legal digital versions too.

You cannot say every digital is a fake when someone finds its lighter to carry a epub on a tablet than 2-3 rule books and codexs.

Can we all just drop the piracy discussion?

The original question asked was nothing to do with pirating copies of codexes, but simply whether it was possible to not buy a codex and just use Battlescribe as a reference.

It's not a replacement for having a codex in some shape or form, because it doesn't include all the relevant information.

If there's one thing that annoys me, it's people who just use battlescribe/army builder and 'totes remember all the rules, so it's no problem,' so there's no way to actually confirm anything outside of what's included in the army list printout.

Battlescribe isn't always right. That's the main problem. PDFs can be hard to understand if they are dodgy scans etc. If I want you to show me a rule, a codex is the best way. If you've got a decent Pdf version, fine.

I tried using a printed copy or even a pdf and found it was a nightmare. I now use a codex and find it a lot quicker.

As for why you have one, just purely to reference stats/rules and to confirm the same to your opponent if required.

HCMistborn wrote:
Well, it gives you all the stats as well, so printing out your specific list is nice. It also gives you the page number for each rule.

It's also been wrong in the past.

As for the point in buying it: Make sure you're following the proper rules when building a list, fluff, pretty pictures, can easily reference stats and other stuff.

 jeffersonian000 wrote:
You should have your codex for referencing when playing, to address rules issues specific to your army.

I personally don't care if you think you know what your rules are, you better be able to show me the rule in question.

SJ

100% agreed.

Waiting excessive time while someone swipes their phone to find a rule is wasteful.

Watching them go into the bathroom to take a dump with their digital device in hand and later expect you to use their phone to find the rule you're interested in is disgusting.

Not being able to provide rules because your digital device is out of battery is unhelpful.

Having to prove that their digital reference in battle scribe is inaccurate is frustrating.

My personal experiences.

Thanks for the information, my curiosity is sated.

Battlescribe is a fantastic resource for building a list quickly and coming up with ideas.

It is not a rules resource, it is not meant to serve as a rules resource, it does not replace the Codex in the same way say, a photocopy or pirated copy of the Codex would (not condoning piracy here.)

You'll find it disagrees with the Codex in a number of nuanced points: where the Codex might describe how a chaplain can take terminator armour and a relic, battlescribe may instead accuse you of trying to cause a time paradox and demand you delete the offending unit.

I just checked, it breaks in a different way now.

I don't even trust it's calculations completely, always double check the points costs by hand.