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I was thinking the Hounds of Abaddon seem pretty nice, and Bringers of Despair is no longer extra points just a nice extra skilled bodyguard for the Warmaster.

Anybody try any of them?

The Cabal is almost worth the VotLW tax. It almost inspired me to make a new CSM list. Almost.

The Cabal is fine.

The problem for the rest of them is that they focus on the things that suck balls in the Chaos Codex, and forces you to take units that you would never really take while giving them a bonus that isn't really worth it. And because you are taking those formations, you are now unable to take the stuff that wins you games unless you go unbound.

It's cool if you like fluff (which i do) but not if you want to win games (outside of the Cabal).

The Cabal is very solid. I've used it the last couple games and it has done work each time, even against armies where there was no good target for Shroud of Deceit.

Haven't used it yet, but I think the Daemon Engine Pack could be worthwhile.

Other than that, the remaining formations either struck me as bad, or not the type of thing I would play to begin with.

They're mostly mediocre. None of them are straight up good. And the cabal is more useful for the concentrated sorcerers than it is for the formation bonus. That's not saying it's a bad bonus though, just situational.
So competitively your not going to get much out the formations. Only the cabal would be worth considering.

Outside of that, the bringers aren't bad. Abaddon is a major beatstick and a full unit of bringers performs pretty well alongside him. Even before considering vs marines.

The chosen of abaddon are just pure rubbish.

The hounds formation is really just a better biker escort for your (better) juggerlord and that's still a maybe. The berserkers are still meh and you still need a dreadclaw to get either into combat, in which case the formation bonus for running is moot and the other might not even proc. If you want to take thes units then it's ok, since this makes the units cheaper than they would be in vanilla or CS. Though I'm not sure why you would go out of your way to pick either zerkers or csm.

The daemon engine pack anti character bonus is utterlly pointless and getting BS 5 forgefiends is nice and all...but you're paying a steep price for that. A price that is forced to hang around them and do nothing unless you stick him on a gun. Which again, you have to pay for. And if you loose the smith, you loose the buff. So you need to hide him in a unit, that's like some 600 points easily. And they still die just as fast as regular forgefiends. Or you could get 4 rapier autocannons. They're only bs4 but they also only cost 260 points and have ablative wounds. Again, the formation is ok, but nothing to write home about.

The tormented is very VERY restrictive. The possessed are decent, as is the prince, but getting them into assaults means this will be basically your entire army. At the very least you would want a spartan and a dread claw. Along with the CAD you'll need means you will have little else even at 1850. Ok at best, unusable for most.

And the Black Legion Warband is more acceptable for fluffy lists, for which it's pretty good. Outside of that you'd still want a normal CAD over this unless you're playing for kill points. The units aren't that bad per se. Havocs are decent, termicide works somewhat, bikes are still useful and if you care about powerarmour you would have taken csm/chosen over cultists anyway. But they won't be enough, and the bonus isn't exactly gamebreaking. Meaning you need a second CAD to get all the good stuff you need to complement this. There's no real incentive to use that formation other than fluff reasons and for when your sick of turning into a spawn.

Thank you very much!

I do like some more fluff-responsible armies for friendly games.

But for sure I see a Cabal in my future. One of them could have the Last Memory of Yuranthos too and hopefully explode some heads in all those Gladius squads I see out there. Running Tzeentchy Warp Talons with a Tzeentchy Cabal on discs would be pretty fun too.

The Tormented might be fun. I was thinking, since I loathe Slaanesh, the Possessed would still strike before most enemies. I like using Kharn in a Dreadclaw anyways, so a CAD for him and a second Dreadclaw would be do-able...and Obliterators (here's to hoping they'll get a Formation in a new Codex soon!)

Same take, yeah the Cabal is good to great. I've been shopping for bikes since they came out, I really want to run 3 unmarked on bikes with a Nurgle lord, all rolling on Biomancy to get Iron Arm and/or Warp Speed. Give 1 the Spineshiver blade, all with force axes. I might give em sigils depending on the point's, but with the lord and some spawn, probably FnP, that's going to be a sick little unit. 9 ML and probably a psychic shriek or two also.

Alternate take, I do think the Daemon Engine is worth it. Fiends are almost universally recommended in pairs anyway, and you really don't need to give a maulerfiend WS 4 as much as you need to give a Forgefiend BS 5. So take one shooty fiend and a mauler to run at stuff, which it should do anyway. You can put the warpsmith on an Aegis Quad gun and your AA is covered, or put him in a squad of 10 cultist that you probably have laying around as a troop tax anyway, and boom, 10 ablative wounds. Either way, have your 4 shot S8 gun hit on 2's instead of 4's is a big buff, and if you add an ectomouth, that scatter -5 in. is a decent upgrade. He keeps your gun shooting, and as a free buff you get to mess with your opponent's cover save or throw get's hot on something if you want. He's not great, but since you can boost a single fiend a turn, one Forgefiend goes perfectly with it.

Second, the character hunter buff is okay, but combined with the Forge's own re-rell wounds once per game ability, you can really boost your slay the warlord potential and get some anti-deathstar power. Making 4 S8 shots with (PE) and 2+ to hit every turn from the first from something that is behind a 4++ wall (see Aegis comment above) and spitting AP2 blast templates on top...

I think is has really good potential and really helps to make up for the downside a 200 pt walker with a huge gun has, ie misses half his shots and bring enough to the table elsewise to justify spending 100 extra pts. Plus everyone needs a Maulerfiend.

That's the thing though, you get PE(that specific character) not PE(him an his buddies). You then choose a unit to shoot at, which the character happens to be part of. Aka that rule does nothing at all unless he is on his own.
Well, it does give him a hull point back should the char die along with the unit...provided you actually lost a wound before.

I didn't think it played that way. Still worth imo, even given the YMDC thing.

Waht you described would make it much better though. You would almost never miss and you wouldn't need the daemonforge since you wound on 2+ anyway and get to re-roll 1's aka everything all the time, both hit and wound. It would work like a better murdersword. With that you don't actually want to kill the character so you get to keep the buffed sword to murder the unit. Here you would hit the unit very reliably with high strength and/or AP. Killing the character would just be a bonus.

I've faced the cabal a few times with my orks and they're almost as annoying as libconclave. They have great utility as they're all psychers and have an edge above tau with LOW suits. They were running with a bunch of flesh hounds from KDK formation. I still managed to pull a win but games were extremely boring as his whole army was invisible all the time, so it's a step towards power gaming for csm i guess.

I also think that Hounds of Abaddon can have some utility. It screams for raptors. Juggerlord with aobf as those guys lack ap2. Maybe Kharn for the second squad as they'll be able to slingshot him...probably. When you have a jugger lord, you can utilise his 12" movement, raptors move 6", than both get fleet for a re-rollable run and a bunch of HOW attacks. If only there was no need for csm and berserkers...

I doubt it's gona be overly competitive but it has some potential at least. And it's the best way of fielding khornate raptors.

Another formation that could be fine is a few footslogging squads of marines with an apostle. Keep them stock. They're surprisingly durable for the points.


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All in all, Cabal is good for competitive games. Hounds could be decent - needs testing. Others are either garbage or fun.