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Hi Dakka. I am putting together a list for the upcoming campaign and wanted a bit of help. I haven't actually played a game with Seraphon yet, so any advice on the feasibility of any units or the list as a whole is much appreciated. I suppose my biggest uncertainty is that the Bastiladon and Slann together are expensive, so could I be leaving myself too short on models for this points level? Thanks in advance.

Old-blood x1 (suntooth maul, leader) - 100

Bastiladon x1 (solar engine) - 300

Saurus Warriors x10 (celestite clubs) - 100

Saurus Knights x5 (celestite blades) - 120

Slann Starmaster x1 - 260

Chameleon Skinks x5 - 120

Total - 1000

Just read the battle scrolls, and your right that doesn't look like many wounds. Compared to two other 1k lists on the front page you're the lowest in terms of wounds:

Seraphon - 23 models, 47 wounds
Stormcast eternals - 30 models, 74 wounds
High elfs - 23 models, 53 wounds

You are probably tougher than the 47 would otherwise indicate, you would certainly be tougher than the elf's 53 wounds,but both your damage output and toughness would be less than my stormcast. How that translates ito actual play is a little iffy for me, since I'm new as well. I'm thinking my stormcast would probably be a good fight for you, since it's an infantry army you'd get a lot of use from your bastildaon. The elfs on the other hand would just fly over your front line and burninate your expensive units with their two dragons, after that they can just kite you. Hope that helps, and as I'm new as well take it with a grain of salt.

 Erynor wrote:
Hi Dakka. I am putting together a list for the upcoming campaign and wanted a bit of help. I haven't actually played a game with Seraphon yet, so any advice on the feasibility of any units or the list as a whole is much appreciated. I suppose my biggest uncertainty is that the Bastiladon and Slann together are expensive, so could I be leaving myself too short on models for this points level? Thanks in advance.

Old-blood x1 (suntooth maul, leader) - 100

Bastiladon x1 (solar engine) - 300

Saurus Warriors x10 (celestite clubs) - 100

Saurus Knights x5 (celestite blades) - 120

Slann Starmaster x1 - 260

Chameleon Skinks x5 - 120

Total - 1000

you might look a little light but my pre generals handbook seraphon list, my bastiladon would take out most of peoples armies on his own. He's really hard to kill especially with mystic shield or cover... 2+ save and can roll on mortals.
use chameleons to take out their general or whatever is the biggest threat and I dont think it should be an issue... my list was
slann
chameleons
warriors or guard
bastiladon
sometimes i would add in some salamanders

Bastiladons are behemoths and so, do not get any cover saves in matched play. the mystic shield works but it can be dispelled mind you, or the caster can be sniped right off the board. That said, bastiladons are still the go to unit in any seraphon army !

Yes, keep the Bastiladon! I would question what you're going to be using the Slann for though. As you have no Skink Heroes you will need to keep your Slann on the front line to be casting spells - with his 3 spells you'll only be casting Arcane Bolt and Mystic Shield once. The last spell is the bravery buff but as you're running MSU it's not really going to come into use except against Chaos Deamons with the debuff. Again with summoning, you could slingshot the Bastiladon up he board but as it already has a threat range of 25" it doesn't really seem worth it. Being able to dispell 3 spells is nice, but at 1000 points are there going to be that many armies you face casting 3 spells a turn? You would need to be within 18" of all the casters too. I think you'll find your Slann goes to waste in most games, just floating about using Arcane Bolt once a turn.

Instead I would try and get a Carnosaur. The bloodroar ability it has is incredible.

Lastly I would drop the Saurus Knights. I think you'll find they do nothing pretty much. Another 10 Saurus Warriors would be better spent in my opinion.

Awesome, thanks everyone!

Yeah I clearly didn't think that list through very well, but I will probably take the slann out first as Bottle suggested. Replacing him with a skink starpriest and losing the knights & old-blood, I can add in another 10 warriors and scar-vet on carnosaur, giving me:

Bastiladon - 300
Saurus warriors x20 - 200
Starpriest - 100
Scar-vet on carnosaur - 260
Chameleon skinks - 120

That puts me on 980 points and looks quite a bit better I think.

There is a way I could get an old-blood on carnosaur instead of the scar-vet, but I'd have to drop the chameleon skinks for a unit of regular skinks to stay in point range; not sure which is the better option as I think the chameleon skinks are really good.

Hi Erynor.

Seraphons are my main army so I'll try to help!

You were right to get rid of the knightsand the slann, both of them are underachieving.

Your current list is pretty good. You could consider a Skink Chief (under lizardmen) instead of the Starpriest to boost the Bastiladon.. But that's not a big difference.

Personally I don't like the Chameleons and would rather add 10 more Saurus to your big unit.

Thanks Haechi!

I looked at the chief and his ability is great, but leaving myself with no spellcaster worries me a little. I'll have to think on that.

May I ask why you don't like the chameleons? I only ask as I have no experience with them, but they looked like a good mobile harassing unit. Though an extra 10 saurus does sound good. More for me to think on!

It's because from my experience there isn't much to harass in AoS games. Most of the units picked by players are pretty strong. Take your list for example. Beside the skink priest, what's to harass with 5 Chameleons? it's just not potent enough in my opinion.

I saw you comment on my Sylvaneth list, so if we take that one as a second example: You can probably get some shots off my Branchwych, but there are few chances you're going to kill her in one turn. Then what? And even if they do it. it's 120 points killing 100 points. And they die next turn anyway since there's only 5 of them. I'm just not convinced =]

Okay I see your point. Thanks Haechi that's really helpful

To offer a counter-point, I have never seen Chameleon Skinks not delivery meaningfully in a game.

They can pop up anywhere, which is incredible, and with an 18" range, they can usually position so that many monsters (let alone anything else), still need an average charge after moving, to get at them.

They damage at a surprisingly decent volume, especially with their double-damage shots, and their super-cover-save makes them reasonably durable.

The big thing is, they poof in the Hero phase, and deploy in the Movement phase, so unlike most poppers, they can slip out of a melee combat that got caught in, and survivors can be on the other side of the table selectively deleting targets on the same turn.

High volume of fire too.

I have to agree with NewTruthNeomaxim. The Chameleons can pay for themselves and then some, but must certainly be played correctly. 120 pts killing a 100 pt hero doesn't sound like much, but what if it forces the opponent to pull off a unit to deal with the skinks, weakening his front line? That by itself is worth 20 pts easy. And then what if they can't kill the skinks off in the turn? Poof they disappear and now are on the other side of the board leaving room for more wound dealing and pulling enemy units out of place.

In the end though its going to come down to how you enjoy playing and what you enjoy running. I'd say try both set ups a few times and see what you come up with. One is most likely more effective for your personal play style.

If he had 15 I would agree. He's running 5 at the moment.