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Hi everyone,

I have been somewhat away from 40k for awhile but I have managed to get the odd game in here and there and I have still managed to get in around 1-2 games per month so I am not completely out of the 40k loop. The army I have the most fun playing are my Grey Knights. The big issues I find they have are some long ranged punching power. I lack the ability to effectively pop vehicles and mow down medium to heavy armoured targets. I find the Grey Knights can deal with most other threats quite easily. That ranged fire base is really what I find I am lacking.

What I am thinking is running some Cult Mechanicus either as Allies, Main force or taking a Formation of some from. Both the Grav units and the Haywire units can deliver the punch that I would need and have the range and some decent durability to back them up. The Grav units in particular have caught my attention.

So curious as to who may have taken some of these units with a Grey Knight Army and how they fair in doing the job of ranged punching power. Also keen to know of the pro and cons you had with this type of set up.

Thanks in advance.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also thought I should mention that the Grav squads would be mounted on a skysheild landing pad.

I definitely think it's a viable option, deep strike from Grey Knights and Dread Knights would fill a huge void in the Cult Mechanicus Army of lack of mobility. The Grav shots from the Destroyers will help a lot especially protection from CC and you might be on to something.

I played in a doubles event a while back with a cult mechanicus player, 750pts per list, and we rolled over pretty much everything we came across, no problem at all. may have been due to me running two fully kitted out DK's, but I found that the forces complimented each other fantastically.

This is pretty much what I was thinking.

I actually feel that the forces work so well that I may actually be able to kit my NDK's out with Heavy Psi & Heavy Incin.

I am finding the Heavy Psycannons are just not putting down enough wounds.

What I am thinking is running the Cult Mech as allies and sticking them on the Skyshield. 2x 4 man Grav squads and then just opening up. 2x Squads of 4 with Divination Libby will rain down a lot of hell. I can even stick the Cult Mech HQ up fron to tank wounds with the 2+/4++ from the Sky Shield.

All up the allies and Skyshield work out to be around 600pts give or take.

Still room for 3 NDK's

 Spacewolverine wrote:
I definitely think it's a viable option, deep strike from Grey Knights and Dread Knights would fill a huge void in the Cult Mechanicus Army of lack of mobility.

Not to mention you'd be making up for Admech's lack of psykers in spades. I'd consider this a TFG combo if the top tournament players weren't running lists like Eldar allied with Dark Eldar allied with Tau or Daemons. On the other hand you'll have an extremely severe lack of models/bodies on the table. If the enemy throws enough dice at you then you'll fail some saves eventually, and if you fail a couple dozen saves then you're off the table.

What kind of points limit are you building for?

I typically play either 1850 or 2000.

I am actually thinking of running Strike Squads as troops just to get boots on the ground.

You can just run a NSF and go with a single unit of terminators. I would almost never run strike squads to be perfectly honest, they're overpriced space marines basically.

If you ally in a ML2-3 libby with 2 DK's and a unit of terminators, you're looking at about 750 pts, add another unit or two of terminators and you're golden.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
At least on the GK side of things that is. (I'm not super familiar with the intricacies of Mechanicus armies)

This is kind of the direction I want to move in.
I will obviously need to tweek some bits and pieces.

I am even thinking of dumping the Interceptors and throwing in a Storm Raven. It's a tough choice. Bodies or fire power???

Also trying to find the points to get that Libby up to Mastery Level 3.

The tactics behind this is are quite simple. The Cult Mech & Libby sit on the Skyshield and work as a firing platform. they can target vehicles and heavy armoured targets. (These squad would actually work wonders with Cotaez)

The Grey Knights go in and hammer the front lines. I tooled up the NDK's to focus on hitting Infantry with shooting. I have actually been finding the Gatling Psilencer so be my best weapon system. There seems to be more and more MC's out there and the ranged Force Ability seems to be worth its weight in gold.

The Interceptors and Strikes are my multi tool. I can either use them to take, hold or camp on objectives or I can rush them in with the rest of the horde or I can park them on home base as a counter assault unit. (Would really like to find the points to get Psycannons on them as using them as screen to block assaults from in coming assault units is a great job for them. typically there types of units come to me so the short range isn't a big deal. In shooty lists I can just Deep Strike them and they can punch into my opponent's back lines.

Any ways this is it so far. I know this isn't the list section but you guys seemed interested in what I was thinking of doing with them. Any tweaks or tactics would be appreciated. Thanks.

-GREY KNIGHTS CAD-
HQ- Librarian, ML2, Storm Bolter
115pts

T- Grey Knight Strike Squad
1x Justicar Sword
2x GK Incinerators
7x GK Swords
220pts

T- Grey Knight Strike Squad
1x Justicar Sword
1x GK Psycannon
3x GK Swords
125pts

FA- Interceptor Squad
1x Justicar Sword
2x Interceptors Incinerators
7x Interceptors Swords
260pts

HS- Nemesis Dreadknight
Personal Teleporter, Gatling Psilencer, Heavy Incinerator, Nemesis Greatsword
220pts

HS- Nemesis Dreadknight
Personal Teleporter, Gatling Psilencer, Heavy Incinerator, Nemesis Greatsword
220pts

HS- Nemesis Dreadknight
Personal Teleporter, Gatling Psilencer, Heavy Incinerator, Nemesis Greatsword
220pts

FORT- Skyshield Landing Pad
75pts

-CULT MECHANICUS ALLIES-

HQ- Tech-Priest Dominus
105pts

T- Kataphron Destroyers
4x Kataphron Destroyers, Heavy Grav Cannon, Phosphor Blaster
220pts

T- Kataphron Destroyers
4x Kataphron Destroyers, Heavy Grav Cannon, Phosphor Blaster
220pts

2000pts


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 iStompya wrote:
You can just run a NSF and go with a single unit of terminators. I would almost never run strike squads to be perfectly honest, they're overpriced space marines basically.

If you ally in a ML2-3 libby with 2 DK's and a unit of terminators, you're looking at about 750 pts, add another unit or two of terminators and you're golden.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
At least on the GK side of things that is. (I'm not super familiar with the intricacies of Mechanicus armies)

Not a bad idea.

I am still tossing up between running the Mech as main or the GK's as main.

If I did run the GK's as main and took Terminators I would want at least 1x 10 man squad with 2x Psycannons.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I do have around 30 Terminators with magnetic arms so running terminators is not a problem.

Units of 6-7 seem to work pretty well as far as terminators are concerned, I know it seems weird, but its just right for what the unit needs to do..

What are you planning on rolling for with the Librarian? My personal favourite is going for invisibility, psychic shriek is also fantastically useful primaris that comes along with that. (great vs riptides)

I would run a list like what you have above, but replace the PA GK's with terminators, and you should be good. (psycannons on PA is not ever good.)

Also, psycannons vs psilencers on the DK's is a matter of preference. Personally, I prefer the cannons because you don't have to use dice on force.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
3 DK's may also be a little overkill.

So overnight I had a think about my list and I tweaked and changed some things.

I am seriously lacking in bodies but hey that how GK's play

Depending on what type of list I will be facing The Libby will be with either the 10 man Terminator unit or the Mechanicus. If they are with the Terminators I will go for invisibility if they are with the Mechanicus then I will roll on Divination. I will probably roll 1 dice and take the primas then roll on the GK chart to get Santuary to boost the skyshield Invo save.

The small squad of Terminators will be my tactical unit that can change to depend on the mission. they can either camp on an objective, push forward with the 10 man Terminator Blob, Deep Strike in basically do what ever the mission needs to get the win.

2000pts GREY KNIGHTS & CULT MECHANICUS

-GREY KNIGHTS CAD-
HQ- Librarian, ML3
135pts

T- Grey Knight Terminators
1x Terminator Justicar, Halberd & SB
2x Terminators, Halberd & Psycannon
7x Terminators, Halberd & SB
390pts

T- Grey Knight Terminators
1x Terminator Justicar, Halberd & SB
1x Terminator, Halberd & Psycannon
3x Terminators, Halberd & SB
195pts

HS- Nemesis Dreadknight
Personal Teleporter, Gatling Psilencer, Heavy Incinerator, Nemesis Greatsword
220pts

HS- Nemesis Dreadknight
Personal Teleporter, Gatling Psilencer, Heavy Incinerator, Nemesis Greatsword
220pts

HS- Nemesis Dreadknight
Personal Teleporter, Gatling Psilencer, Heavy Incinerator, Nemesis Greatsword
220pts

FORT- Skyshield Landing Pad
75pts

-CULT MECHANICUS ALLIES-

HQ- Tech-Priest Dominus
105pts

T- Kataphron Destroyers
4x Kataphron Destroyers, Heavy Grav Cannon, Phosphor Blaster
220pts

T- Kataphron Destroyers
4x Kataphron Destroyers, Heavy Grav Cannon, Phosphor Blaster
220pts

2000pts


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 iStompya wrote:
Units of 6-7 seem to work pretty well as far as terminators are concerned, I know it seems weird, but its just right for what the unit needs to do..

What are you planning on rolling for with the Librarian? My personal favourite is going for invisibility, psychic shriek is also fantastically useful primaris that comes along with that. (great vs riptides)

I would run a list like what you have above, but replace the PA GK's with terminators, and you should be good. (psycannons on PA is not ever good.)

Also, psycannons vs psilencers on the DK's is a matter of preference. Personally, I prefer the cannons because you don't have to use dice on force.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
3 DK's may also be a little overkill.

I had been running Cannons and Incinerator for a long time but I kept finding the Cannons just failing time and time again.
The NDK's were the main fire power in the list and were constantly lacking in punch.

The Cannons are great but just sucked and dealing with vehicles. I found assaulting them got the job done.

With the Terminators now back in the list I now have some Psycannnon hitting power if I need it to deal with transports if they create a problem. Also the Mechcanicus now add to some more shooing ability to deal with units with decent armour saves and vehicles and the NDK's can focus on killing infantry and assaulting vehicles and harassing the enemy back lines.

With 3 NDK's in your face turn 1 you have no choice but to deal with them or have them smashing you to pieces turn 2 onwards. The Mechanicus should be left unhindered unless my opponent sends something fast at them or deep strikes.
Coteaz would be the best addition to that squad but sadly I don't have the 100pts to add him in. He can also give some Prescience to the unit and add some warp charge to the list.

i feel that at this points level, this severe lack of bodies will make things difficult. If you loose even a single DK, I can see things going downhill fast if you haven't made a dent by that point.

My preference is still for the cannons, but there is a lack of MC's locally for me is probably the reason why.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Mind you, for what it is, everything looks solid enough. Take it out for some games and see how it feels.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Just noticed no hammers on the terminators. Unless you can find the points somewhere else (30), cut the halberds and run 1 hammer per 5 terminators. So one in the small unit, two in the large one.

So I played 2 games last night.

The first game I ran the list above. The second game I ran a different list. I will post it when I get to it.

Some pro's an cons of the list.

Cons
1. GK Toops suck.
I am really not a fan of Terminators in 7th. They blow over to a stiff breeze. The 2 units faired well but they are such a points sink and really don't offer a lot of damage out put fo their points investment.

2. The Libby really doesn't need to Mastery Level 3.
I found since the Libby wasn't in the think of it he really only casted Divination. The only other powers I cast were Sanctuary for the NDK's.

3. Bodies were an issue.

Pro's

1. The Librarian
He was mostly safe from giving up Slay the Warlord, He basically just buffed the Destroyers so didn't really need any other wargear or upgrades.

2. You could get away with 2 squads of minium Troops as there was a ton of hitting power with the rest of the force. Use the points for something else to add more punch.

3. If you have an objective in the home set up area you can stick the Skysheild over it and the CM's can hold it.

4. The CM were quite a good force. They did fill a lot of holes in the GK's force.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
So this was the list I ran in my second game.

2k (Boot & Guns) GREY KNIGHTS & CULT MECHANICUS

-GREY KNIGHTS CAD-
HQ- Librarian, ML2
110pts

T- Grey Knight Strike Squad
1x GK Justicar Sword
2x GKs Psycannons
6x GKs Swords
1x GK Hammer
250pts

T- Grey Knight Strike Squad
1x GK Justicar Sword
2x GKs Psycannons
6x GKs Swords
1x GK Hammer
250pts

HS- Nemesis Dreadknight
Personal Teleporter, Gatling Psilencer, Heavy Incinerator, Nemesis Greatsword
220pts

HS- Nemesis Dreadknight
Personal Teleporter, Gatling Psilencer, Heavy Incinerator, Nemesis Greatsword
220pts

HS- Nemesis Dreadknight
Personal Teleporter, Gatling Psilencer, Heavy Incinerator, Nemesis Greatsword
220pts

FORT- Skyshield Landing Pad
75pts

-CULT MECHANICUS ALLIES-

HQ- Tech-Priest Dominus
Raiment of the Technomartyr
135pts

T- Kataphron Destroyers
4x Kataphron Destroyers, Heavy Grav Cannon, Phosphor Blaster
220pts

T- Kataphron Breachers
6x Kataphron Breachers, Heavy Arc Rifle, Arc Claw
300pts

2000pts

I combat squaded the Strikes into a squad with 2 Psycannons and a squad with Hammer and Justicar. The Justicar and Hammer squads camped behind terrian and held objectives. In my home line.

What I found was having not a lot bodies visible on the board was not that fantastic. Luckily I was against Necrons so they were kind of short ranged so I did get smashed to quickly.

The NDK's just tore through them and the shooty squads also ripped them a new one. It was a very one sided battle. The 2 Psycannon squads both died the turns they arrived and I lost 3 guys from 1 other Strike squad. All three NDK's were on 1 wound at the end of turn 5 and we rolled a 1 so the game ended. It in my favor from the beginning. His plane's came in 1 turn after the other so my Haywire guys combined with having Snap Shots on BS2 and Prescience up each turn tore them apart with a lot of ease. That squad was actually a bit too bulky and 4-5 guys would probably be enough.

I will do up another list using 2 minimum strike squads with Incinerators as Troops and then use the rest of the points on something else maybe some Interceptors or a Storm Raven. Definitely something punchy.

For your purposes, strike squads will probably do just fine.

When I find I'm lacking in bodies, I ally in inqusition for acolytes just min units to sit on points ect. Serco skulls are nice when I'm deep striking lots and lots of terminators too.

It seems like you're hitting in the right ballpark for what your looking for too.

Your GK setup id pretty inefficient, do its not all that surprising that you found them lacking. Your Librarian benefits more from roling on Sanctic than on any other table; if you want Divination, just take a 85pt OM Psyker Inquisitor in TDA with a Psycannon and Servo Skulls. You can take two for the fost of a GK Libby. What your Libby should be doing is fishing for Vortex, Gate, Cleansing Flame, and Sanctuary. Those powers are game changers, and better served on a platform like the GK Librarian.

Your NDKs have a confused gearing. Psilencers need Force to be useful, while the NDK needs Sanctuary to survive, and they can only cast one or the other, not both. The Heavy Psycannon is a high rate of fire, rending autocannon that can drop a large blast marker as needed. As such, the Psycannon is the better of the three range options. The Heavy Incinerator is the next best range option as it is the bane of most Xeno armies. The Gatling Psilencer without Force active is a squad of bolters with no AP; pretty much the worst of the three. The Gatling Psilencer is a good second weapon on your second NDK, not your primary weapon on all of your NDKs. As to the Great Swords, I've that concussive from the Hammer pairs up better with the Psilencer, as it has a better chance of killing anything on turn 2 that survived being ID'd on turn 1. The Swords is still "great", it's just better when paired with a Psycannon because you will be using Sanctuary each turn, not Force.

The Grey Knight Terminators are good for either deep striking onto objectives or acting as ablastive wounds for the Librarian. Taking a max squad and the combat squading them as needed for best flexibility. I always recommend 1 hammer per 5 models, 2 per 5 if you know you will need the AP2. Falchion are actually the better melee weapon as the extra attack will net more wounds than the extra Str from a Halberd. Yet, Swords are still free. Always take max Psycannons on GKT.

SJ

 jeffersonian000 wrote:
Your GK setup id pretty inefficient, do its not all that surprising that you found them lacking. Your Librarian benefits more from roling on Sanctic than on any other table; if you want Divination, just take a 85pt OM Psyker Inquisitor in TDA with a Psycannon and Servo Skulls. You can take two for the fost of a GK Libby. What your Libby should be doing is fishing for Vortex, Gate, Cleansing Flame, and Sanctuary. Those powers are game changers, and better served on a platform like the GK Librarian.

Your NDKs have a confused gearing. Psilencers need Force to be useful, while the NDK needs Sanctuary to survive, and they can only cast one or the other, not both. The Heavy Psycannon is a high rate of fire, rending autocannon that can drop a large blast marker as needed. As such, the Psycannon is the better of the three range options. The Heavy Incinerator is the next best range option as it is the bane of most Xeno armies. The Gatling Psilencer without Force active is a squad of bolters with no AP; pretty much the worst of the three. The Gatling Psilencer is a good second weapon on your second NDK, not your primary weapon on all of your NDKs. As to the Great Swords, I've that concussive from the Hammer pairs up better with the Psilencer, as it has a better chance of killing anything on turn 2 that survived being ID'd on turn 1. The Swords is still "great", it's just better when paired with a Psycannon because you will be using Sanctuary each turn, not Force.

The Grey Knight Terminators are good for either deep striking onto objectives or acting as ablastive wounds for the Librarian. Taking a max squad and the combat squading them as needed for best flexibility. I always recommend 1 hammer per 5 models, 2 per 5 if you know you will need the AP2. Falchion are actually the better melee weapon as the extra attack will net more wounds than the extra Str from a Halberd. Yet, Swords are still free. Always take max Psycannons on GKT.

SJ

The issues I have with this are:
An Inquisitor with the upgrades you explained is 110pts more points to the list. Where is this coming from?

The NDK's I was running did have Psycannons but ended up dropping them because they weren't preforming. I am considering putting them back in to get the Pie plate templates back. My meta consists of lots of Thunder Wolf Cavalry and MC's so the ranged force is quite useful vs those I had been running the Heavy Psycannon and Gatling Psilencer together and that was a nice combo as they are both 24" range so with the 12" move they have a moderate reach.

I am finding Terminators to be a really insufficient point's sink. A Librarian with a squad of Terminators comes in at 275pts before upgrades. Even before you have spent anything on them to give some utility your looking at them being the most expensive unit in the list and they have the lowest levels of punch. Cheaper more expendable squads to add bodies is a better investment. A 5 man strike squad though 110pts can camp behind cover and hold an objective and then counter charge if you need them too. Still not the best option but as stated above this seems to be a big weakness for GK's

All I did was point out why the GK side of your list is underperforming, it's up to you to decide how to fix it. I might suggest two minimal GKT squads, Psycannons and no Sword instead of Psilencers and the Swords on the NDKs. That saves quite a be of points. 5 GKT with 1 Hammer and a Psycannon is 190 points. I would attach the Librarian to one squad and deep strike the othef.

SJ

 jeffersonian000 wrote:
All I did was point out why the GK side of your list is underperforming, it's up to you to decide how to fix it. I might suggest two minimal GKT squads, Psycannons and no Sword instead of Psilencers and the Swords on the NDKs. That saves quite a be of points. 5 GKT with 1 Hammer and a Psycannon is 190 points. I would attach the Librarian to one squad and deep strike the othef.

SJ

I get what your saying.

I have been running pretty much those same squads and the 195 points just doesn't seem to make up for the price tag.

 Sinji wrote:

 jeffersonian000 wrote:
All I did was point out why the GK side of your list is underperforming, it's up to you to decide how to fix it. I might suggest two minimal GKT squads, Psycannons and no Sword instead of Psilencers and the Swords on the NDKs. That saves quite a be of points. 5 GKT with 1 Hammer and a Psycannon is 190 points. I would attach the Librarian to one squad and deep strike the othef.

SJ

I get what your saying.

I have been running pretty much those same squads and the 195 points just doesn't seem to make up for the price tag.

Then don't use them. Personally, I find ObSec TDA very useful, but that's just me I guess.

SJ

 jeffersonian000 wrote:

 Sinji wrote:

 jeffersonian000 wrote:
All I did was point out why the GK side of your list is underperforming, it's up to you to decide how to fix it. I might suggest two minimal GKT squads, Psycannons and no Sword instead of Psilencers and the Swords on the NDKs. That saves quite a be of points. 5 GKT with 1 Hammer and a Psycannon is 190 points. I would attach the Librarian to one squad and deep strike the othef.

SJ

I get what your saying.

I have been running pretty much those same squads and the 195 points just doesn't seem to make up for the price tag.

Then don't use them. Personally, I find ObSec TDA very useful, but that's just me I guess.

SJ

I suppose if you have enough of them to maintain some redundancy then they are a good option.
I personally enjoy running NDK's and Interceptors. That's just my own personal flavour.

I core army is a GK Libby, 10 GKT, 10 Interceptors, 2 NDKs, and Draigo. Pretty sure I'm well aware of the pros and cons of the GK codex.

SJ