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I'm going to be getting about 10 hellions models soon for just about free, and I'd like them to at least see SOME table time. It's just they suck. Pretty bad. So, tactics gurus my question is, is there a way to make them work? Any help is appreciated.

They're pretty much terrible.

If you insist on playing them, I've had some moderate success in the past playing them in a typical DE style, just MSU them, and harass light infantry. that's about it in my experience.

Glorified cannon fodder that ties up a unit for a turn or two. Maybe.

 iStompya wrote:
They're pretty much terrible.

If you insist on playing them, I've had some moderate success in the past playing them in a typical DE style, just MSU them, and harass light infantry. that's about it in my experience.

Glorified cannon fodder that ties up a unit for a turn or two. Maybe.

Exactly this. Don't bother with upgrades and stick to 5 man units that are fairly mobile and do things that are a pain like movement block super-heavy walkers or bubble wrap more important units. Use them like throw away units that speed bump or flat out block things. Best things for them to tarpit are things like artillery, where the crew usually sucks and you want to prevent them from firing in their turn.

Alternatively you can run them as solo beastmasters from a real space raider detachment. 10 point solo units that can grab maelstrom points and do the exact same thing as above while being even more annoying since pretty much anything that shoots at them besides a drop pod or rhino is drastically overkilling them They will get you cards like hold the line for only 30 points total I've done this same tactic with clawed fiends as well as khymera and it is painfully annoying to your opponent how much board control you can acquire for minimal investment.

Max unit and put two farseers in (there are better options to do this with obviously...)

Going to be honest, running hellions like that will just make you a sad person.

Step 1 - Buy Hellions
Step 2 - Buy Chaos warhounds, VC dire wolves, or LotR Wargs
Step 3 - Field unit as Beast Masters

Alternately, eBay some Star Cannons and add 2 each underneath the Skyboard as extra engines. Now you have count-as Reavers

 Galef wrote:
Step 1 - Buy Hellions
Step 2 - Buy Chaos warhound, VC dire wolves, or LotR Wargs
Step 3 - Field unit as Beast Masters

Alternately, eBay some Star Cannons and add 2 each underneath the Skyboard as extra engines. Now you have count-as Reavers

Chaos Warhound probably wouldn't be allowed in a beast pack, they wouldn't be able to fit through doorways for one and tbh people get edgy around vulcan megabolters.

wtnind wrote:

 Galef wrote:
Step 1 - Buy Hellions
Step 2 - Buy Chaos warhounds, VC dire wolves, or LotR Wargs
Step 3 - Field unit as Beast Masters

Alternately, eBay some Star Cannons and add 2 each underneath the Skyboard as extra engines. Now you have count-as Reavers

Chaos Warhound probably wouldn't be allowed in a beast pack, they wouldn't be able to fit through doorways for one and tbh people get edgy around vulcan megabolters.

What are you talking about? Is that a titan or something?
I'm talking about these:
https://www.games-workshop.com/en-IE/Chaos-Warhounds

Tactically speaking, Hellions just do not work. Reavers are better in every way and Beastmaster are better for CC.
Funfact: the original Hellions came with a rule called "Jinx" that gave them an 5++. So the unit that had the prototype for Jink, doesn't have Jink. Because reasons

-

 Galef wrote:

wtnind wrote:

 Galef wrote:
Step 1 - Buy Hellions
Step 2 - Buy Chaos warhounds, VC dire wolves, or LotR Wargs
Step 3 - Field unit as Beast Masters

Alternately, eBay some Star Cannons and add 2 each underneath the Skyboard as extra engines. Now you have count-as Reavers

Chaos Warhound probably wouldn't be allowed in a beast pack, they wouldn't be able to fit through doorways for one and tbh people get edgy around vulcan megabolters.

What are you talking about? Is that a titan or something?
I'm talking about these:
https://www.games-workshop.com/en-IE/Chaos-Warhounds

-

https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-GB/Chaos-Warhound-Titan-Body

I was cracking wise

I use helions as Corsairs, actually. They work quite well, and look nice.

What kind of corsair?

The basic jetpack troops. That's basically all I run in my corsair allied detachments.

I've basically just decided helions have no reason to exist, so I'll use this existing, better looking model to represent my jetpack troops.

Honestly they don't seem like they really work as a jetpack troop.

It seems to me that the DE codex is designed around deep strike, which is what Hellions can do and Reavers can't. The whole PfP system is designed to encourage units to come into the game via reserve.

I think... wait, jetbikes can't deep strike, can they?

I have had a minimal amount of success fielding them with a Fortress of Redemption. They can get inside if they want, and their greater mobility means exiting from the battlements and assaulting is a possibility. Alternately, hanging out on the battlements, especially if you have Void Shields on it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
But let me reiterate: minimal. They suck. I feel your pain, though. There is no unit with a greater gulf between how awesome they look and how much they suck.

They're actually decent in a Kabalite Raiding Party - deepstrike in on turn 2, shoot up a light infantry unit, and you have Furious Charge on turn 3. S5 AP5 attacks are killer against some armies.

Take in a unit of 8 for best results when it comes to leadership (so that "1 model left" and "under 25% left" are same), and I'd skip the Helliarch.

5 Hellions cost as much as a Venom and provide 85% of the poison shots while also being able to assault. They're very fragile, but S5 AP5 is enough to threaten light infantry and to bang up vehicles. As most of Reavers' damage comes from HoW and Wyches aren't great, Hellions benefit from Combat Drugs more than any other DE unit does - S6, T4, WS5, any of that other than Initiative or Leadership is an awesome boost.

 Galef wrote:
Step 1 - Buy Hellions
Step 2 - Buy Chaos warhounds, VC dire wolves, or LotR Wargs
Step 3 - Field unit as Beast Masters

Alternately, eBay some Star Cannons and add 2 each underneath the Skyboard as extra engines. Now you have count-as Reavers

I second what this guy says.

Also if you wanna get really cheeky, Crypt Horrors with a face swap works great as Fiends and you can probably find some sort of tiny winged creature to use as razorwings.

the_scotsman wrote:
I use helions as Corsairs, actually. They work quite well, and look nice.

Did I ever tell you you're my heeeeeeero?

You're everything I wish I could beeeeeeee.....

Seriously, this is my favorite thing I've read all year.

My Brother played a beautiful and elegant list with them in 5th.

The Baron
Several Hellion squads
2 Haemonuculi with WWPs
2x5 wracks in venoms
Scourges
Talos

Basically he would deploy the Wracks in venoms with haemonuculi. They would jump forward, disembark, and drop the WWP. From there the scourges and Hellions could come in from reserve and touch anywhere on the table. This was a fantastic novelty to have. The hellions could shoot or assault if need be, and we're important scoring units thanks to the Baron. Plus the Baron buffed his unit with stealth. It was a fragile, but elegant list. It was different from the standard Dark Eldar list, and he loved it.

6th destroyed the list, and the 7th Dex threw dirt over the grave. Being unable to assault out of reserve, reduced cover, lack of objective secured, and the loss of the Baron all weaken them further. My Brother has since quit DE, and it is a shame. It was a shame, as it was a beautiful list to see in play.

Bonzai wrote:
My Brother played a beautiful and elegant list with them in 5th.

The Baron
Several Hellion squads
2 Haemonuculi with WWPs
2x5 wracks in venoms
Scourges
Talos

Basically he would deploy the Wracks in venoms with haemonuculi. They would jump forward, disembark, and drop the WWP. From there the scourges and Hellions could come in from reserve and touch anywhere on the table. This was a fantastic novelty to have. The hellions could shoot or assault if need be, and we're important scoring units thanks to the Baron. Plus the Baron buffed his unit with stealth. It was a fragile, but elegant list. It was different from the standard Dark Eldar list, and he loved it.

6th destroyed the list, and the 7th Dex threw dirt over the grave. Being unable to assault out of reserve, reduced cover, lack of objective secured, and the loss of the Baron all weaken them further. My Brother has since quit DE, and it is a shame. It was a shame, as it was a beautiful list to see in play.

Even back in 5th, if your friend was running 5 Wracks and an Haemonculus ina Venom then he was cheating since they only have a transport capacity of 5. Mind youl, in squads for Wracks were 3 back then so I guess he would have been running them as squads of 3 or 4 instead.

You guys know hellions can take phantasm and can deepstrike being jump troops. Not great by any stretch but if you do fear bomb as well it might be ok. Maybe. Course i can't think of what other use you'd have for em.

PGLs are pretty bad, unfortunately. And deep striking leaves you vulnerable to being shot up.

Perhaps just deploy em on foot then. They can do a 12" jump move and then use the 18" phantasm.

Still think it's a massive waste of a fast attack slot if you're doing bound. The alternative options are just better.

Maybe i'm not doing em right but with the few games of 7th i have under my belt and only about 5-6 games of dark eldar i'm having trouble with reavers. Not sure why they're so beloved. Yeah they're hard to hit but if an enemy charges them, you fail your charge with them, if not a lot of cluster caltrops make it into base to base (as hammer of wrath works that way) or if the cluster caltrops botch it hard they're dead. I must be doing something wrong. In one case i hit a unit of like 5 basic marines in a devastator squad. One cluster caltrop gets in, i roll one hit and no wounds. Same with another game i roll and get double ones for hits. There was only one time so far out of 3 combats where i didn't botch the caltrops and each time they didn't do enough anyway what with 3+ armor on all my opponents. Also if you're jinking you're not shooting which is a massive waste.

So far i'm enjoying scourge. Venoms are ok and ravagers are situational but great when they work (usually best vs the not OP marine armies).

------

I'm getting off topic though. Phantasm is the only reason i could see somebody taking hellions. They just don't have what it takes to live getting into combat. It's sad because combat drugs could make them ok but they'll most likely get shot up before they get there.

 Imateria wrote:

Bonzai wrote:
My Brother played a beautiful and elegant list with them in 5th.

The Baron
Several Hellion squads
2 Haemonuculi with WWPs
2x5 wracks in venoms
Scourges
Talos

Basically he would deploy the Wracks in venoms with haemonuculi. They would jump forward, disembark, and drop the WWP. From there the scourges and Hellions could come in from reserve and touch anywhere on the table. This was a fantastic novelty to have. The hellions could shoot or assault if need be, and we're important scoring units thanks to the Baron. Plus the Baron buffed his unit with stealth. It was a fragile, but elegant list. It was different from the standard Dark Eldar list, and he loved it.

6th destroyed the list, and the 7th Dex threw dirt over the grave. Being unable to assault out of reserve, reduced cover, lack of objective secured, and the loss of the Baron all weaken them further. My Brother has since quit DE, and it is a shame. It was a shame, as it was a beautiful list to see in play.

Even back in 5th, if your friend was running 5 Wracks and an Haemonculus ina Venom then he was cheating since they only have a transport capacity of 5. Mind youl, in squads for Wracks were 3 back then so I guess he would have been running them as squads of 3 or 4 instead.

That is probably right. It's been a few years so I may be a little fuzzy.

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:

 Galef wrote:
Step 1 - Buy Hellions
Step 2 - Buy Chaos warhounds, VC dire wolves, or LotR Wargs
Step 3 - Field unit as Beast Masters

Alternately, eBay some Star Cannons and add 2 each underneath the Skyboard as extra engines. Now you have count-as Reavers

I second what this guy says.

Also if you wanna get really cheeky, Crypt Horrors with a face swap works great as Fiends and you can probably find some sort of tiny winged creature to use as razorwings.

I did just that using Direwolves as Khymerae and the Spite Bits from Wood Elves as Razorwings. The Clawed Fiend I have just the one GW original model but, it's an awesome model. Check out my gallery and I'll get my converted Beastmaster pics put up soon.

So as not to get infracted, I'll offer actual tactical advice; I'll echo zending them to artillery or, max unit coherency to screw with the movement of units that can't just jump, skim or fly over them.

 flamingkillamajig wrote:
Perhaps just deploy em on foot then. They can do a 12" jump move and then use the 18" phantasm.

Still think it's a massive waste of a fast attack slot if you're doing bound. The alternative options are just better.

Maybe i'm not doing em right but with the few games of 7th i have under my belt and only about 5-6 games of dark eldar i'm having trouble with reavers. Not sure why they're so beloved. Yeah they're hard to hit but if an enemy charges them, you fail your charge with them, if not a lot of cluster caltrops make it into base to base (as hammer of wrath works that way) or if the cluster caltrops botch it hard they're dead. I must be doing something wrong. In one case i hit a unit of like 5 basic marines in a devastator squad. One cluster caltrop gets in, i roll one hit and no wounds. Same with another game i roll and get double ones for hits. There was only one time so far out of 3 combats where i didn't botch the caltrops and each time they didn't do enough anyway what with 3+ armor on all my opponents. Also if you're jinking you're not shooting which is a massive waste.

So far i'm enjoying scourge. Venoms are ok and ravagers are situational but great when they work (usually best vs the not OP marine armies).

------

I'm getting off topic though. Phantasm is the only reason i could see somebody taking hellions. They just don't have what it takes to live getting into combat. It's sad because combat drugs could make them ok but they'll most likely get shot up before they get there.

Reaver shooting is not that great, I mean all you've got is a few rifles and 1 per 3 single shot special weapon, Venoms and Scourges make for much better shooty platforms. Poor rolling can be very frustrating but below average rolls isn't the fault of the Reavers. Positioning and movement is key with them, having the unequipped guys up front to provide ablative wounds for the Caltrops whilst leaving space so that the hard hitters can get into base contact on the charge is very important and takes a bit of getting used to. As for getting charged yourself, I'd hope you weren't putting them in a place where a dedicated close combat unit can get a good run at them but if so Hit and Run is there to get you out of trouble.

Personally I love Reavers becuase they're a fast, hard hitting unit that can be quite fragile and that requires some thought to get the best out of.

As for the Phantasm Grenade Launcher, it has two main problems. The first is that it's useless against the most common opponent, Space Marines, thanks to the And They Are Boken special rule. Secondly, it's a single small blast shot, which means that you are most likely going to miss regardless of whether it's Hellions, Kabalites or the vehicle mounted version.