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This might belong in the proposed rules not sure because looking for more of a would you guys allow it.

Would you all be ok with cyclone missile launchers being able to shoot akyfire missiles? Or potentially making it a 5 pt upgrade?

 Backspacehacker wrote:
This might belong in the proposed rules not sure because looking for more of a would you guys allow it.

Would you all be ok with cyclone missile launchers being able to shoot akyfire missiles? Or potentially making it a 5 pt upgrade?

You Make Da Call is for discussion of the actual rules, so yes, I think this does belong elsewhere.

So far as what you're asking though, I wouldn't be okay with it "just because", but if I were...

A Cyclone Missile Launcher is basically a two-shot Missile Launcher at an additional 67% cost premium over a regular Missile Launcher.

I think giving them the option to take Flakk Missiles, like with the Missile Launcher, would be more appropriate, costed appropriately as above. So... Heavy 2 Flakk Missiles for 15 or 20 points I guess.

Yes, definitely Proposed Rules - so off we go!

For 5 points I don't care.

Flakk Missiles should only be 5 points anyway. CML's are a rare enough weapon that nobody will call shenanigans on it.

 Alpharius wrote:
Yes, definitely Proposed Rules - so off we go!

Thank you much sir.

I figure for 5 points, its worth it, seeing as how the cyclone missile launcher is already 25 pts, so 30 points for a single upgrade on a unit, that has the change of going down in a single shot.

I did not vote as my opinion is not expressed in the poll. I would be OK with Flakk missiles on a CML, however it would need to be costed appropriately (about 15 points, since you get two shots).

I think flakk should be an option with a cost for the CML, but I am not sure what the appropriate pricing should be.

I voted for 5 points, but probably would be OK with it for free. MLs in general are lackluster, and the flack missiles are very overpriced. The CML at least gets two shots, so it’s not like a normal ML launching the one lonely shot up into the sky.

At this point, I’d probably be fine with flack missiles for free for all launchers. It would help their jack-of-all-trades nature, and give them a niche as the skyfire heavy.

 Happyjew wrote:
I did not vote as my opinion is not expressed in the poll. I would be OK with Flakk missiles on a CML, however it would need to be costed appropriately (about 15 points, since you get two shots).

If one shot isn't worth 10, what makes 2 worth 15?

It could be free and tactical terminators would still be worthless. The flakk missile is only good vs flying vehicles. Against MCs, it's predictably worthless. As most weapons in this game are worthless vs MCs.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Happyjew wrote:
I did not vote as my opinion is not expressed in the poll. I would be OK with Flakk missiles on a CML, however it would need to be costed appropriately (about 15 points, since you get two shots).

If one shot isn't worth 10, what makes 2 worth 15?

One being worth 7.5?

Martel732 wrote:
It could be free and tactical terminators would still be worthless. The flakk missile is only good vs flying vehicles. Against MCs, it's predictably worthless. As most weapons in this game are worthless vs MCs.

This.

The CML is already a bad weapon, adding Flak Missiles should absolutely not cost anything.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
It could be free and tactical terminators would still be worthless. The flakk missile is only good vs flying vehicles. Against MCs, it's predictably worthless. As most weapons in this game are worthless vs MCs.

This.

The CML is already a bad weapon, adding Flak Missiles should absolutely not cost anything.

Warhammer 40000: Optional Rule
Ready to launch

Add flakk missiles to any missile launcher or cyclone missile launcher in the appropriate datasheets found in
Codex: Space Marines
Codex: Space Wolves
Codex: Blood Angels
Codex: Grey Knights
Codex: Astra Militarum

Honestly, I think flakk missiles need to be a built-in option for ever missile launcher variant of any army. be it marines, CSM, IG or whatever.
Maybe we will see them used again if it is.

I still wouldn't use missile launchers. That's how miscosted they are. I'd consider missile launchers at 5 pts with all the missiles. Consider them. That's still 19 pts for an immobile heavy weapon that can't penetrate 2+ armor that has meq durability.

At 5 points, they'd probably be useful. They still are pretty good at killing T4/W2+ critters, ranging from SM/CSM characters (though most of them have T5 and/or Sv 2+, or a ++ save), Tyranid medium bugs, Crisis Suits and those sorts of things, so if they were dirt-cheap, they'd be interesting, especially with flakk missiles.

With the current prices, though, lascannons are just better for that job because of AP2 - its utility against 2+ saves and the ability to blow up vehicles more than makes up for the cost. And that's even with the fact that, as you rightly point out, lascannons aren't great. (Enough of them do cause major damage, but you need lots of them, and that's horribly expensive.)

GW can't wrap their head around the fact that they have made meqs garbage in 7th ed, though. My marines haven't died this fast since 2nd. I think it's even faster now,but I've just got more on the table to lose. This is why marine devastators have outrageous prices for their now-useless heavy weapons.

Martel732 wrote:
GW can't wrap their head around the fact that they have made meqs garbage in 7th ed, though. My marines haven't died this fast since 2nd. I think it's even faster now,but I've just got more on the table to lose. This is why marine devastators have outrageous prices for their now-useless heavy weapons.

Seems to me that they just play at a different level to some of us and don't understand why you would.

Proposal: bring back the targeter glove from 2nd edition.

Rules:
• Any terminator equipped with a Cyclone Missile Launcher may opt to exchange his power fist for a Cyclone Targeting Glove for no additional cost.
The targeting glove operates in one of two modes, chosen at the beginning of the unit's shooting phase: Ground Assault; gives the cyclone missile launcher the twin-linked rule. Aerial Intercept; gives the CML the Skyfire special rule.
Additionally, in both modes, cover saves taken against wounds, penetrating, or glancing hits, inflicted by the CML suffer a -1 penalty.

Martel732 wrote:
GW can't wrap their head around the fact that they have made meqs garbage in 7th ed, though. My marines haven't died this fast since 2nd. I think it's even faster now,but I've just got more on the table to lose. This is why marine devastators have outrageous prices for their now-useless heavy weapons.

Honestly that is because of all the very cheap AP2 that can be fielded now by so many armies, and GMC, Flying MC, ect ect, Marines dont get that. But that is neither here nor there.


I like the idea about the targeting glove though

It's not just cheap AP 2. It's the S6/7 spam as well.

Martel732 wrote:
It could be free and tactical terminators would still be worthless. The flakk missile is only good vs flying vehicles. Against MCs, it's predictably worthless. As most weapons in this game are worthless vs MCs.

So stuff like krak missile, but does 1+d3 wounds to MC and GMC instead of 1 maybe? They get 1 save per shot, but it could do more damage that way. Would have probably been a better idea to go with than "and then suddenly the techpriests opened the mago's old storage shed, among old magazines with questionable content they found lost technology; guns that shoot gravity at you".

Grav was a sloppy, horrible fix. GW has effectively made all old school Imperial heavy weapons useless because of things like the Riptide and Wraithknight. And the rules for MCs in general. Lascannon, missile launchers and heavy bolters are all really bad now.

Part of the list of reasons I'm sitting out of 40k for now.

Yeah the amount of cheap spam able AP2 S7+ is kinda nuts, anything thats not MEQ get instant death almost all the time.

Tau and eldar namely being the bad guys of this, that said, i do shamelessly run a Ravenwing command squad so i cant talk to much. GW made most heavy weapons pretty damn wothless i will agree, but thats neither here nor there on the subject of letting cyclone have Skyfire.

Frankly, I think all missile launchers should have Skyfire by default.

 insaniak wrote:
Frankly, I think all missile launchers should have Skyfire by default.

I agree, and I still wouldn't use them.

Not really looking to make it the super viable option? Just more or less looking for SOMETHING, that can stand a chance against even the weakest of flyers.

Reason I brought it up was I played a game of rw/dw vs eldar and he brought that eldar pyker flyer that only has 10 armor, but had nothing that could hit it. Was just grahhh

Flakk missile are quite decent vs flying vehicles. Vs MCs, however, they fail utterly.

I would add in flakk for free. The launcher and unit carrying the launcher are expensive already. With a max of two it is hardly game breaking.