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So...

1) Are there any good estimates on how much military power is required to fight off an Eldar Craftworld?

2) Do Craftworlds themselves ever visit planets?

3) If most of a Craftworld got destroyed, would it be difficult (as in, overly so) for the Eldar within to recover?

4) If the infinity circuit got damaged, what would that entail?

 Selym wrote:
So...

1) Are there any good estimates on how much military power is required to fight off an Eldar Craftworld?

2) Do Craftworlds themselves ever visit planets?

3) If most of a Craftworld got destroyed, would it be difficult (as in, overly so) for the Eldar within to recover?

4) If the infinity circuit got damaged, what would that entail?

There is plenty of stuff out there covering much of what you want, look up ulthwe it will give you most of your answers

 Selym wrote:
So...

1) Are there any good estimates on how much military power is required to fight off an Eldar Craftworld?

2) Do Craftworlds themselves ever visit planets?

3) If most of a Craftworld got destroyed, would it be difficult (as in, overly so) for the Eldar within to recover?

4) If the infinity circuit got damaged, what would that entail?

1. Depends on the Craftworld. The major known Craftworlds like Biel-Tan, Iyanden, Ulthwe, Saim-Hann and Alaitoc are going to be far more powerful than that of a small no name Craftworld.

2. In what way, be specific?

3. If something was powerful enough to destroy most of a Craftworld I can't imagine there'd be any survivors. certainly the Craftworld itself would be as good as dead.

4.I'd imagine there'd be Bonesingers and/or Seers specialised in dealing with something like that.

2) In the sense of either being considered to be within a star system, or actually outright orbiting one. I suspect the former occurs often enough, but I don't know anything about a Craftworld's needs and the motivations of those that pilot it (beyond "hide from Slaanesh").

4) Can a damaged infinity circuit start losing souls, or become unable to absorb any more?

In regards to the first question I'm pretty sure that somewhere it states a sector fleet was destroyed attempting to fight a Craftworld.

I don't see why a Craftworld would need to orbit a planet. It would certainly mess the planet up a bit considering how big Craftworlds can be.

I wouldn't think that a Craftworld COULD "visit" a planet. It's a world sized construct. Think Halo, ringworlds, Dyson's spheres in scale.

With military support, army and navy, on the same levels.

As long as any part of it is left it could be regrown/rebuilt depending on the will and determination of its people.

Craftworlds spend almost all of their time in realspace, and must stop off in systems to refuel in the light of suns. As such they'll spend a fair amount of time in system however due to being so large if they wanted to orbit a planet they are likely to use a go-between Wraithship to orbit the planet, the Wraithship itself having a direct webway link to the craftworld.

Large craftworlds are bastions as much as paradises, and are incredibly well defended. It would take a very large force to defeat a craftworld, they have large and powerful navy's and the infinity circuit can be roused to war over the multitude of automated weaponry. As an example, Iyanden was one of the larger craftworlds and took on (barely) an entire tendril of Kracken. Tendrils of a Hive fleet usual carve through entire sectors. However a Craftworld would never be used offensively if there was a risk to the craftworld, so ''driving off' a craftworld that docked in a hostile system would probably be easier then expected,

Craftworlds are actually a multitude of biomes, so damages to the craftworld can be compartmentalised quite easily. However is the damage was so great as to piece the infinity circuit in a meaningful way, the craftworld could do anything from plug the hole, slowly die or explode in a blood nebula as a warp storm is created. If the infinity circuit died, the craftworld would die. Life support systems would go offline, psychic defences would go down and most systems would go down.

When is a Craftworld NOT in realspace? They don't exactly have anywhere else to go.

It's also worth remembering that in a fight the Craftworld controls defences and the environment so one second its pitch black the next its a room of blinding light, corridors appear and disappear and you get the idea.

It's also worth noting that the "Craftworld" never actually attacks. Afaik, all stories in which take place on a CW are ones in which the CW is defending from attack (like Iyanden vs the Nids). Anytime the CW inhabitants mount an attack, they use Webway portals and/or fleets of smaller ships to go to the place they are attacking.

pm713 wrote:
When is a Craftworld NOT in realspace? They don't exactly have anywhere else to go.

It's also worth remembering that in a fight the Craftworld controls defences and the environment so one second its pitch black the next its a room of blinding light, corridors appear and disappear and you get the idea.

Craftworld Mymeara escaped the Imperial Navy after the invasion of Betalis III by going into the Webway. More of a desperate measure than anything else as it requires a lot of power and there aren't going to be that many tunnels large enough to accomidate a Craftworld.

 Selym wrote:
2) In the sense of either being considered to be within a star system, or actually outright orbiting one. I suspect the former occurs often enough, but I don't know anything about a Craftworld's needs and the motivations of those that pilot it (beyond "hide from Slaanesh").

4) Can a damaged infinity circuit start losing souls, or become unable to absorb any more?

Many Craftworlds attempt to sway destiny across the galaxy to favour the Eldar race, and by that I mean they follow prophecies given by their Seer councils that foresee into the distant future. Craftworld Ulthwe is most famous for this as they are believed to have the set the events of the Second Armageddon War into motion. This is also why Eldar movement across the galaxy is seen as totally random by other races, as they are often acting on events that may not occur for many years to come.

Damage to the Craftworld means damage to the Infinity Circuit too, since the Infinity Circuit runs through almost every wraithbone structure within a Craftworld, operating many crucial life support systems. As long as a Bonesinger is present, there is not much damage that can be done to a Craftworld that they cannot repair. The only long lasting damage one can inflict on a Craftworld is that of life, since the Eldar have an incredibly slow reproduction cycle and will thus have to rely on what they consider to be necromancy to defend themselves.

And in response to your first question, you could try a Tyranid Hive fleet. That almost did the trick

G.A

 Imateria wrote:

pm713 wrote:
When is a Craftworld NOT in realspace? They don't exactly have anywhere else to go.

It's also worth remembering that in a fight the Craftworld controls defences and the environment so one second its pitch black the next its a room of blinding light, corridors appear and disappear and you get the idea.

Craftworld Mymeara escaped the Imperial Navy after the invasion of Betalis III by going into the Webway. More of a desperate measure than anything else as it requires a lot of power and there aren't going to be that many tunnels large enough to accomidate a Craftworld.

Don't remember that in the book and it doesn't make sense seeing as other Craftworlds are trying to enter the Webway. The fact they haven't indicates they can't.

 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:


Large craftworlds are bastions as much as paradises, and are incredibly well defended. It would take a very large force to defeat a craftworld, they have large and powerful navy's and the infinity circuit can be roused to war over the multitude of automated weaponry. As an example, Iyanden was one of the larger craftworlds and took on (barely) an entire tendril of Kracken. Tendrils of a Hive fleet usual carve through entire sectors. However a Craftworld would never be used offensively if there was a risk to the craftworld, so ''driving off' a craftworld that docked in a hostile system would probably be easier then expected,

It's worth noting that the Kraken tendril didn't really take on Iyanden when she was at her prime. The Kraken VS Iyanden fight was the culmination of the "Triple Woe," that is, a series of three massive and costly battles that Iyanden directly participated in. If I recall correctly, the first woe was against a big ork force, the second against chaos marines, and the last was against the tyranids (whom they'd already spent forces trying to deter with the help of other craftworlds before it got near to Iyanden). We know from various parts of the Valedor novel that Iyanden was still feeling the bruises from the first couple incidents when it had to deal with the third.

It's also worth noting that, in Valedor, an Iyanden representative warns a Biel-Tan representative not to let Biel-Tan herself get too close to the tyranid force as that was the mistake made by Iyanden. Indicating that craftworlds can be used aggressively (possibly to make launching and resupplying ships easier?), but that the losses suffered if the craftworld is attacked directly are considered too high to be worth the risk. Especially when you can usually just attack from transport ships or the webway.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

pm713 wrote:

 Imateria wrote:

pm713 wrote:
When is a Craftworld NOT in realspace? They don't exactly have anywhere else to go.

It's also worth remembering that in a fight the Craftworld controls defences and the environment so one second its pitch black the next its a room of blinding light, corridors appear and disappear and you get the idea.

Craftworld Mymeara escaped the Imperial Navy after the invasion of Betalis III by going into the Webway. More of a desperate measure than anything else as it requires a lot of power and there aren't going to be that many tunnels large enough to accomidate a Craftworld.

Don't remember that in the book and it doesn't make sense seeing as other Craftworlds are trying to enter the Webway. The fact they haven't indicates they can't.

You're probably thinking of craftworld Lugganath which, according to some of the eldar codexes (codicies?) is basically really tired of dealing with the materium's problems and wants to escape into the webway. As a result, they have fostered strong ties to harlequins as harlies are the undisputed masters of the webway (according to fluff). This angle has been played down slightly in more recent codexes, instead emphasizing Lugganath's struggles against chaos and their hodge-podged army of craftworlders, harlies, and corsairs. The desire to take their craftworld into the webway doesn't necessarily contradict another craftworld's ability to do so. It's possible that sufficiently large webway portals are simply extremely rare and inconveniently far from Lugganath's current location. It could simply be that whatever webway arteries they've come across are too near to dangerous, compromised chunks of the webway (such as those areas inhabited by warp energy/creatures or those areas frequently visited by Commoraghns).

Which doesn't explain how if what you say is true then Mymeara can do it but they can't and the lack of source.

codexes (codicies?)

Codices.

Like Index/Indices, Appendix/appendices, Vortex/vortices.

Regardless of GW using "codexes", it still doesn't make them right or correct. :p

An Adeptus Astartes Chapter destroyed an entire craftworld, then the chapter's homeworld was destroyed by others eldars.
I don't remember the chapter's name, unfortunately...

 godardc wrote:
An Adeptus Astartes Chapter destroyed an entire craftworld, then the chapter's homeworld was destroyed by others eldars.
I don't remember the chapter's name, unfortunately...

The Craftworld was Idharae, and it was destroyed in an all out siege by the Invaders Space Marine Chapter and elements from the Legion of The Damned; this would later turn the Invaders into a fleet based Chapter when Craftworld Alaitoc retaliated and destroyed their home world.

There isn't any information about the size of that Craftworld, however, nor how many Space Marines were dispatched to destroy it. All we know is that the Invaders only had 3 companies left after Alaitoc destroyed their home world. So unfortunately it doesn't help answering the OP's question

Going by that story (and assuming that there were no noteworthy casualties of the Alaitoc retaliation), then we have this as an estimate:

Craftworld vs SM Chapter

1,000 Marines + support launch assault

~300 marines return.

So the most optimistic guess has it that the craftworld took out 700 marines and their support. But still died. Pretty poor display imo.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
But then again, according to GW, 3 marines can conquer a planet.

So the craftworld is about 230-240 time tougher than a planet.

Anything can go according to GW; sometimes 3 marines or a single Captain can save a world from destruction, whereas other times most of a chapter is wiped out in minutes, such as the Crimson Fists. Probability and chance are bygone concepts to most races now; it's just a matter of how many risks are needed to ensure survival.

I would say that it was unlikely that the entire Invaders Chapter was sent to destroy Craftworld Idharae, as they were also currently battling the Tyranid Hive Fleets. And they had the Legion of the Damned by their side. Chances are the Eldar didn't stand a chance after being weakened by Hive Fleet Kraken and by breaking their alliance with Craftworlds Iyanden and Malan'tai

Which doesn't explain how if what you say is true then Mymeara can do it but they can't and the lack of source.

Imperial Armour: Doom of Mymerea

There have been references to craftworlds webway-jumping across the galaxy before that - in fact I think way back when (a White Dwarf Epic battle report) there was reference to even one of the main craftworlds (I want to say Alaitoc?) doing it.

The difference is that Lugganath isn't trying to jump from point A to point B. They're trying to jump into the webway and stay there, which may be a different prospect.

locarno24 wrote:


There have been references to craftworlds webway-jumping across the galaxy before that - in fact I think way back when (a White Dwarf Epic battle report) there was reference to even one of the main craftworlds (I want to say Alaitoc?) doing it.

Codex Eldar 6th Ed states that the Webway path can "range from man sized portals to ones that can accommodate an entire Craftworld". By that alone, I'd say that Craftworlds can travel through the Webway, but their reach across the galaxy would be limited by the number of portals that size that still remain intact

pm713 wrote:

 Imateria wrote:

pm713 wrote:
When is a Craftworld NOT in realspace? They don't exactly have anywhere else to go.

It's also worth remembering that in a fight the Craftworld controls defences and the environment so one second its pitch black the next its a room of blinding light, corridors appear and disappear and you get the idea.

Craftworld Mymeara escaped the Imperial Navy after the invasion of Betalis III by going into the Webway. More of a desperate measure than anything else as it requires a lot of power and there aren't going to be that many tunnels large enough to accomidate a Craftworld.

Don't remember that in the book and it doesn't make sense seeing as other Craftworlds are trying to enter the Webway. The fact they haven't indicates they can't.

Pg 127 of Doom of Mymeara. It doesn't specifically say thats what happened, because for some stupid reason the whole fluff of the book is written from the imperial perspective, but it does say that the Imperial Navy and Space Wolves, whilst chasing the remaining Corsairs after the invasion of Betalis III into the Karia nebula, detected a massive energy signature (clear inferance being Mymeara) and then a huge void storm that quickly disipaited leaving nothing behind. The obvious implication is that the Craftworld went into the webway to escape detection from the Imperial Navy and Space Wolves.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Wyldhunt wrote:

 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:


Large craftworlds are bastions as much as paradises, and are incredibly well defended. It would take a very large force to defeat a craftworld, they have large and powerful navy's and the infinity circuit can be roused to war over the multitude of automated weaponry. As an example, Iyanden was one of the larger craftworlds and took on (barely) an entire tendril of Kracken. Tendrils of a Hive fleet usual carve through entire sectors. However a Craftworld would never be used offensively if there was a risk to the craftworld, so ''driving off' a craftworld that docked in a hostile system would probably be easier then expected,

It's worth noting that the Kraken tendril didn't really take on Iyanden when she was at her prime. The Kraken VS Iyanden fight was the culmination of the "Triple Woe," that is, a series of three massive and costly battles that Iyanden directly participated in. If I recall correctly, the first woe was against a big ork force, the second against chaos marines, and the last was against the tyranids (whom they'd already spent forces trying to deter with the help of other craftworlds before it got near to Iyanden). We know from various parts of the Valedor novel that Iyanden was still feeling the bruises from the first couple incidents when it had to deal with the third.

It's also worth noting that, in Valedor, an Iyanden representative warns a Biel-Tan representative not to let Biel-Tan herself get too close to the tyranid force as that was the mistake made by Iyanden. Indicating that craftworlds can be used aggressively (possibly to make launching and resupplying ships easier?), but that the losses suffered if the craftworld is attacked directly are considered too high to be worth the risk. Especially when you can usually just attack from transport ships or the webway.

I've yet to read Valedor, but wasn't the battle with Hive Fleet Kraken the second part of the Tripple Woe, the only major conflict with Orcs that Iyanden was apart of that I can remember happened afterwards. I would say that when Kraken attacked Iyanden was at it's prime, I've certainly seen it described as being the largest and most powerful of the Craftworlds at that point, and they lost 90% of their population in that fight.

The void storm is still there. They can also just have holo fields and fly off.

pm713 wrote:
The void storm is still there. They can also just have holo fields and fly off.

No, it isn't, read the passage. It says "...filling the area with blinding light, before swiftly passing".

"As yet no vessel of the Imperium has been able to penetrate the outer boundaries of the dust cloud to investigate this anomaly"

Sure sounds like it's there.

What would be considered a reasonable size for a craftworld?

I would imagine that for them to be considered craft WORLDS, they'd have to be pretty damn big. Like a small moon at least.

The Death Star was 160 KM in diameter, and Luna (our moon) is over 3,400 km.

Given those, would a length of 1,000 km be reasonable?

Followed by a height of 250 km and a width of 250 km?

Nope, nowhere near 1,000KM

A Craftworld is most certainly bigger than the biggest Battleships in the galaxy, such as the Apocalypse Class Battleship (around 12KM long), and while it has space for "hundreds of Eldar families" and enough room for training grounds for Aspects like the Crimson Hunters, I would say that 1,000KM is way too large. I would hinge on around 60-70KM, with the larger ones being around 100.

This is difficult to estimate as there has never been any indication of the size of a Craftworld, only that they outclass Battleships, Space Hulks and Space Stations.

That being said, however, Craftworld's grow as more Wraithbone is shaped by the Bonesingers on board to accommodate new Eldar or to build new facilities, so length differences between the last Craftworlds could be pretty dramatic.

G.A

Hmm..

Interstingly:

"A planet is any object in orbit around the Sun with a diameter greater than 2000 km" - IAU definition of a planet

 Selym wrote:
Hmm..

Interstingly:

"A planet is any object in orbit around the Sun with a diameter greater than 2000 km" - IAU definition of a planet

Are you trying to say Craftworld's are defined as planets? Because I haven't read that anywhere; a Craftworld that size could probably hold enough people to argue that the Eldar race is not dying out at all

No, I just thought that was relevant. It would depend on how you interpret what GW means by "world".

Personally, even I think 1000 km is pushing it quite a bit.