Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I like the idea of a hellhound a lot. Driving in and torrent flaming the hell out of scouts and eldar jetbikes is always fun. But then I take a look at my Wyvern who can just sit on its lazy ass in my safe backline and will most likely do much more damage and still only costs rougly half the point cost of a hell hound. This seems really strange , am I missing something here or did GW just make the poor hellhound obsolete with the Wyvern?

Most of the older IG vehicles suffer from being priced based off of there older 5ed versions despite all the nerfs added to vehicles over the editions

Nope, you aren't missing anything. The Wyvern is way too good compared to other IG tanks and the Hellhound is a pretty mediocre unit.

 oldzoggy wrote:
I like the idea of a hellhound a lot. Driving in and torrent flaming the hell out of scouts and eldar jetbikes is always fun. But then I take a look at my Wyvern who can just sit on its lazy ass in my safe backline and will most likely do much more damage and still only costs rougly half the point cost of a hell hound. This seems really strange , am I missing something here or did GW just make the poor hellhound obsolete with the Wyvern?

They are way too expensive. For very comparable price you can get the russ with S6 AP4 ignore cover(I think) large blast tank. That's going to be pretty good at similar job and lot more survivable.

Hellhound variants alas suck in 7th ed.

Hellhound is nice, but it loses to Banewolf, the bane of Marines. However the Wyvern is easily one of the best vehicles that the Guard has at this moment. Taken in squadrons it is devastating, even to tougher units.

 Xathrodox86 wrote:
Hellhound is nice, but it loses to Banewolf, the bane of Marines.

No, the Hellhound laughs at the useless Banewolf. AP 3 doesn't matter if you can never hit anything with it, and in real games the torrent rule on the Hellhound's gun lets it get more than enough extra hits to make up for the weaker AP.

This torrent is the real reason why hellhounds are nifty things.
They give it a decent thread range. Banewolfs are next to useless.

Sounds very much like YMMV. Go with whatever you think is cool IMO.

Na not really. Both are AP4 and ignore cover. My Wyvern will do at least 6+ wounds ( with its 4 twin linked, re roll to wound blasts) on any unit cover hugging unit I want dead anywhere on the board. While a flamer will more likely do 3-5 wounds has ha hard time getting there and costs double the price.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
I would love to add one to my army but it has to be able to do something on the board. I already own a Wyvern and I suspect that the hellhound will just lagg behind and gets all his kills stolen right before his nose by the Wyvern who has to shoot at the same type of targets.

The only thing a hellhound has over a wivern is the ability to roast passangers in opentopped transports and fortifications.

 oldzoggy wrote:
Na not really. Both are AP4 and ignore cover. My Wyvern will do at least 6+ wounds ( with its 4 twin linked, re roll to wound blasts) on any unit cover hugging unit I want dead anywhere on the board. While a flamer will more likely do 3-5 wounds has ha hard time getting there and costs double the price.

*both*?
The Wyvern is s4 AP 6

But yeah, Wyvern > IG Heavy Support Catalogue. The full battery is horrific, and demands you invest in 11 scatter dice

malamis wrote:

 oldzoggy wrote:
Na not really. Both are AP4 and ignore cover. My Wyvern will do at least 6+ wounds ( with its 4 twin linked, re roll to wound blasts) on any unit cover hugging unit I want dead anywhere on the board. While a flamer will more likely do 3-5 wounds has ha hard time getting there and costs double the price.

*both*?
The Wyvern is s4 AP 6

But yeah, Wyvern > IG Heavy Support Catalogue. The full battery is horrific, and demands you invest in 11 scatter dice

Unfortunately...you have to roll them 1 at a time.

malamis wrote:

 oldzoggy wrote:
Na not really. Both are AP4 and ignore cover. My Wyvern will do at least 6+ wounds ( with its 4 twin linked, re roll to wound blasts) on any unit cover hugging unit I want dead anywhere on the board. While a flamer will more likely do 3-5 wounds has ha hard time getting there and costs double the price.

*both*?
The Wyvern is s4 AP 6

You are right. i have no idea why i messed that up. But it still messes up most units who rely on cover and don't have a 3+ sv.

I remember back in 5th I felt the Hellhound was ~30pts overcosted. Time has not been kind to it since then. The Wyvern is definitely too cheap by an easy 10-20pts, but the Hellhound could stand to come down quite a bit these days without stepping on anyone's toes.

Poor Hellhound. Cool model and idea, poor execution.

go for the artillery

with its weapons. even a stronger enemy will be forced to make quite a few saves.

Both are pretty sweet. Wyvern will give you more damage over the span of the game, as it has longer range. Twin linked will help make sure those shots land, and it's pretty sweet at just piling wounds on stuff. You may think ignores cover doesn't matter because AP6, but loads of stuff has stealth/shrouded and jink or ruins and can get a better save than armor. That is when the wyvern shines. Make them take 10 armor saves and they will fail a few.


Hellhound is a fun tank, but loses in to wyvern in competitive. I like to bring them along for kicks. Always fun to roast medium infantry!

 Xenomancers wrote:

malamis wrote:

 oldzoggy wrote:
Na not really. Both are AP4 and ignore cover. My Wyvern will do at least 6+ wounds ( with its 4 twin linked, re roll to wound blasts) on any unit cover hugging unit I want dead anywhere on the board. While a flamer will more likely do 3-5 wounds has ha hard time getting there and costs double the price.

*both*?
The Wyvern is s4 AP 6

But yeah, Wyvern > IG Heavy Support Catalogue. The full battery is horrific, and demands you invest in 11 scatter dice

Unfortunately...you have to roll them 1 at a time.

That's a new one on me, the first hit sure but the remaining scatter dice? Can you give chapter & verse as i'll need to remember this :|

It's pretty clear why it's priced the way it is: Wyvern is shiny and new, hell hound is old.

GW wants you to go out and buy the new models. Not scour ebay for old hell hounds!

 oldzoggy wrote:
I like the idea of a hellhound a lot. Driving in and torrent flaming the hell out of scouts and eldar jetbikes is always fun. But then I take a look at my Wyvern who can just sit on its lazy ass in my safe backline and will most likely do much more damage and still only costs rougly half the point cost of a hell hound. This seems really strange , am I missing something here or did GW just make the poor hellhound obsolete with the Wyvern?

The IG codex in general has awful internal balance. The Hellhound gets better S, AP, hit rate (doesnt have to worry about scatter at all), side armor, and speed, but loses out on volume of fire and range. A Wyvern really should be more like 80/85pts (and an Elite unit, not HS) and a Hellhound more like 90.

The IG, as an army, has had very poor internal balance for some time, and the current book was largely a pointless phoned-in re-release of the 5E book with some slight rejiggering.

In the Emperor's blade Formation the Helhound benefits from prefered enemy within 6" of an objective. It goes a long way to making them viable.
Also don't forget that as a Fast tank it can move 12 and reach another 20" (12 torrent+8" template). A 32" reach that can turn around corners and the like.
Also Tank Shock!

So PE is decent, but having to be within 6" an objective to get is pretty situational. To be viable, they need a minimum of 30pts slash in cost (hell, even 50pts wouldn't break them) and in today's day and age, some sort of permanent boost to damage, like always PE, or a buff when taken in squadrons, or tank orders, or something.

As is, they're an expensive tank that fills a role everything else in the army already does for cheaper and with more durability.

And that's not even talking about the two variants that are equally lackluster, if not more so.

Won't someone think of the IG FA and Elite slots! #allIGforceorgslotsmatter

malamis wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

malamis wrote:

 oldzoggy wrote:
Na not really. Both are AP4 and ignore cover. My Wyvern will do at least 6+ wounds ( with its 4 twin linked, re roll to wound blasts) on any unit cover hugging unit I want dead anywhere on the board. While a flamer will more likely do 3-5 wounds has ha hard time getting there and costs double the price.

*both*?
The Wyvern is s4 AP 6

But yeah, Wyvern > IG Heavy Support Catalogue. The full battery is horrific, and demands you invest in 11 scatter dice

Unfortunately...you have to roll them 1 at a time.

That's a new one on me, the first hit sure but the remaining scatter dice? Can you give chapter & verse as i'll need to remember this :|

its in the Multie Barrage rules but the reason its done in order is because a hit result can be done off of the inital blast landing or the previous scatter you rolled so in order to know what the previous scatters are you have to do them one at a time

If they got a buff for bringing a squadron they could be useful, such as gaining hellstorm iff all three are alive and only one fires. most people forget about av12 sides as well on them, makes them a lot sturdier than a chimera as it's more immune to regular bolter fire and the likes.

Personally I prefer the wyvern but putting the bane wolf in the Emperor Blade formation can get rid of anybody attempting to hold an objective. I've ran a double emperor blade with a devil dog, bane wolf and two squads of two hellhoinds to pretty good effect.

 oldzoggy wrote:
This torrent is the real reason why hellhounds are nifty things.
They give it a decent thread range. Banewolfs are next to useless.

I've lost count of how many marines I've sludged to death with my Banewolves. Torrent is nice and all, but when you're mainly fighting power armour, a 2+ poison AP3 is a godsend.

 Xathrodox86 wrote:
I've lost count of how many marines I've sludged to death with my Banewolves. Torrent is nice and all, but when you're mainly fighting power armour, a 2+ poison AP3 is a godsend.

Start counting then, I think you'll be disappointed. The Hellhound will almost always hit more than 3x as many models over a full game, which means it kills more MEQs. It gets into range at all more often, and its template will always hit more models.

Isn't Hellhound a fast tank? And AV12 sides... Surely that helps it a bit compared to the Wyvern. The only problem I have with it is why don't I just take an eradicator leman Russ, unless I'm going banewolf.

The problem with the Hellhound is that it costs as much as a Leman Russ Eradicator which has a gun that does everything the Hellhounds does but at a longer range.
The Eradicator is also a lot tougher.

 Intercessor wrote:
Isn't Hellhound a fast tank? And AV12 sides... Surely that helps it a bit compared to the Wyvern. The only problem I have with it is why don't I just take an eradicator leman Russ, unless I'm going banewolf.

The wyvern doesn't need those things because it sits out of range behind cover and lobs death from the safety of whatever you put in front of it.