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Ok, So I just got done reading the first three books of the HH.

Book 1 = great book! Great plot, great sense of mystery, great writing.

Book 2 = good book! Decent continuation of the plot, decent build up, decent portrayal of astartes.

Book 3 = ... wtf? I feel like I missed a TON of crap... Why send Lucius? Why did Angrath choose those world eaters to die? Why the virus bomb? I seems like that was utterly unnecessary, as sending in spears one by one might have done the same trick. Or at least using the bomb in the middle of the battle, when things were too chaotic to find cover...

Am I missing something?

Are there books that explain the series of grossly stupid mistakes the warmaster made?

Help point me in the direction of where this all begins to make sense, because... as of book 3 ... it dont...

So, there's a couple of things going on here.

First, Ben Counter is not a good author. Certainly not on par with McNeil (who I'm personally not a big fan of) and light years beneath Abnett. I would personally put him in the bottom four Black Library authors.

Second, The Horus Heresy series was originally only going to be three books...then it got expanded to nine books...then management started chopping up the series into dozens of different short stories and micro-shorts. Now that management is gone and all the micro shorts and short stories are being combined into anthologies and we're back to normal length novels. The point being, when Galaxy in Flames was written, it was intended to wrap things up quickly rather than to leave room for more detail. To this day, Horus's betrayal is generally considered the most rushed event in the whole series. Though do note that it will be some time before Horus actually turns to chaos.

Third, Lucius was straight up hated by Eidolon and so was chosen, along with all of those that Horus, Eidolon, Angron, and Mortarion believed would stay loyal to the Emperor, rather than willingly rebel with their primarchs. Now we know there are handfuls of other loyalists who survived, either through determination or by not being on Isstvan III at the time, but their story is for another day.

(I don't know what you mean by spears)

Fourth, there was not supposed to be any warning of the virus bomb coming, and there wouldn't have been if not for Saul Tarvitz's figuring out what was happening. So there was never any need to use the virus bombs in the middle of battle with the rebels.

That was a great reply, thanks a ton

It explains a LOT, and from the perspective of what I had somehow thought might be going on... bad writing + bad management = bad book.


And to be honest, I could make a few guesses as to why those particular marines were down there. I assumed it was for stories similar to Saul Tarvitz and Loken. So I could kinda make assumptions...

Lucius being hated by Eidolon seemed to have somehow escaped me. I can't recall any points in book's 1-3 where they bickered or fought... But I guess I could see Eidolon being at the very least - jealous of Lucius...

Again, I can fill in the gaps with my imagination, but I hate doing that (in the case that things develop in the series that are different than my assumptions) :(


*On a side note = Spear Tip, or Spear is what they kept referring to as the assault force that led the invasions of any given planet. That was just in relation to my musing (which was of no particular demand) about Horus' tactics in killing off loyalist's within his own ranks.

Same kinda goes for the virus bomb... sure, it was supposed to be a secret, I was more just musing over the possibility of a better timing... meh.


*** On a side-side note. It also feels off for years to go by in the books and there to be 0 communication with the Emperor. I know they want to keep him a mystery, but still... years... i dunno, seems like if the Lords of Terra or Administratum or whoever can call up Horus, that the Emperor might at least at one point peek in to see how things are going (knowing full and well, his choice of Horus as Warmaster would have ruffled a few feathers of the other Primarchs). Again, meh. No big deal, but it might have made the events feel a bit more complete (and add to the worry/haste that the Emperor might actually be able to catch on to their plans if they don't hurry...)



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Anyway, long story short...

Should I keep reading?

Do they get better?

Are there other books to avoid?

 Warboss Lockjaw wrote:
Lucius being hated by Eidolon seemed to have somehow escaped me. I can't recall any points in book's 1-3 where they bickered or fought... But I guess I could see Eidolon being at the very least - jealous of Lucius...

Again, I can fill in the gaps with my imagination, but I hate doing that (in the case that things develop in the series that are different than my assumptions) :(

There is an example of their relationship on the Battle for Murder - Eidolon is impressed with Tarvitz' pragmatism and annoyed by Lucius. That's in the first book, to my knowledge.

*On a side note = Spear Tip, or Spear is what they kept referring to as the assault force that led the invasions of any given planet. That was just in relation to my musing (which was of no particular demand) about Horus' tactics in killing off loyalist's within his own ranks.

Same kinda goes for the virus bomb... sure, it was supposed to be a secret, I was more just musing over the possibility of a better timing... meh.

Horus never anticipated for the Loyalists to figure out what was going on. Far better for him to let most Loyalists die throwing themselves at the rebel guns, and then use less virus bombs to finish off the regrouping survivors.

*** On a side-side note. It also feels off for years to go by in the books and there to be 0 communication with the Emperor. I know they want to keep him a mystery, but still... years... i dunno, seems like if the Lords of Terra or Administratum or whoever can call up Horus, that the Emperor might at least at one point peek in to see how things are going (knowing full and well, his choice of Horus as Warmaster would have ruffled a few feathers of the other Primarchs). Again, meh. No big deal, but it might have made the events feel a bit more complete (and add to the worry/haste that the Emperor might actually be able to catch on to their plans if they don't hurry...)

The Emperor left Horus in complete command. He didn't need to keep peering on him, as he trusted him completely. That's a big flaw of the Emperors, his own hubris and self-confidence. he genuinely thought his decision was completely correct and could stop micromanaging his sons' actions. He was proven horribly wrong in trusting others so doggedly.

Anyway, long story short...

Should I keep reading?

Do they get better?

Are there other books to avoid?

Some are widely accepted as good (The First Heretic, Legion, Mechanicum, Betrayer, Unremembered Empire and Know No Fear are, to my knowledge, seen as good.) Others (Battle for the Abyss or Reflection Crack'd) are not so well liked. The standard tends to get worse as the series drags on.

 Warboss Lockjaw wrote:

Anyway, long story short...

Should I keep reading?

Do they get better?

Are there other books to avoid?

It's important to understand that the series has many, many, many different plotlines that all interweave and run parallel to one another. Most books only cover one or two at a time.

The most common approach is to read the first five, then after those there's a handful of books that people tend to read first and you can generally read this set in any order:
Legion
Mechanicum
A Thousand Sons
Prospero Burns
The First Heretic
Know No Fear.

In between these are the following books that tend to be less well received:
Descent of Angels and Fallen Angels (These two tell the early history of the Dark Angels and are generally not well written, however they're important backstory to a very good book later)
Battle for the Abyss (The Word Bearers have a big ship called the Furious Abyss. Now they don't. The End.)
Nemesis (A plot to assassinate Horus.)
The Outcast Dead (strange things happening back on Terra)

In between all of these are several anthologies. Many people recommend skipping them and I completely disagree with this notion. The anthologies fill in a tremendous amount of space between novels and while there's the occasional dud short story, there are more than enough great ones to make them worth it.

And that covers the first 20 books out of 36 released and out of an estimated 50 to be published.

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
The standard tends to get worse as the series drags on.

Strongly disagree. With the exception of Deathfire, I'd consider the last 8 novels, from Legacies of Betrayal to Angels of Caliban, to all have been great.

I am in the same boat. I have loved some and hated others in this series. I feel that BL is definitely trying to stretch out the series for as much cash as possible. I like this threads cause they help people (like me) know what's worth getting. I love the HH (probably why I have 3 HH armies, haha), and I want to know what books will inspire me.

So, in summary, thanks!

Galaxy in Flames is one of my favourites honestly, accept for one line that really irked me.

It's true, Ben Counter isn't one of the better writers but he is able to pull out some great pieces on occasion, and imo this is one of them. But it's all down to taste at the end of the day.

Nemesis is one of my favourite stories in the series and I didn't particularly rate Betrayer, although it was a good book.

I say to read all the books and get your own opinion. I've not read some of the later ones as the series has gone on for too long and i've lost interest in it a lot. I used to buy each and every book but now I've started to miss some. My interest was slightly stirred again by Chris Wraight and his Scars stories which are some of the best, if not the best.

On Lucius

Indeed. Eidolon mentally lumps him in with Tarvitz after Murder, both of whom 'embarrased' him in front of the Warmaster.

Books to read

Flight of the Eisenstein
Fulgrim is...... good but a bit disturbing.
Mechanicum
Legion
A Thousand Sons
The First Heretic
Angel Exterminatus
Know No Fear
Betrayer
Unremembered Empire