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So, what do you think about the new FW Tau flyer?

https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-DE/Tau-Barracuda-AX-5-2

Rules available here: https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/resources/PDF/fw_warscrolls//Tau%20Barracuda%20AX%205%202%20Exp%20Rules.pdf


IMHO:

It's a very good looking model, really like the looks of it.
For 175 points you get a heavily armed flyer with strafing run and BS4.
Most tau flyers are really bad,but this one could be the first I add to my force.

It looks good, but I think BS3 with strafing run would have been better.

 godardc wrote:
It looks good, but I think BS3 with strafing run would have been better.

A reduced ability to hit is an unusual way to make something "better".

Maybe I didn't used the correct Word.
I meant "more fair". I don't understand why it has BS4, hitting on 2+ ground target.

Because FW gives the apex of tau technology (the Ta'unar and this) bs4.
Because it would make sense a shooting oriented faction would be bs4.
Because its av 11-11-10, so the average AA volley will knock it out of the air, or force it to jink, making it bs1 not 4/5.
So really it is only going to get 1 turn of full fire power, and after that jink for its life.

It has a 3+ jink and can easily get of the board with supersonic.
And also with Tau Markerlights it's going to always have a decent bs anyways
I think it's pretty damn strong for its pointcosts.

It looks like a potentially decent addition to our force. We aren't exactly short on medium-strength, high-AP firepower or ways to manage flyers, but this unit seems reasonably cost-effective.

To me, it seems like the best load-out is going to be stock except for the ion cannon side-grade. The range increase is a big deal, and most of the non-vehicle things you out out of the sky pronto have a 3+ save. I can see the CIB upgrade being useful, but 6 S5 shots with a substantially longer range is tough to pass up. It already has 4 weapons, stock, so seeker missiles probably aren't incredibly worthwhile.

The railgun option is a bit of a dud, in my opinion. If you're busting heavy targets, you're not making use of the massed fire the other weapons provide. I can potentially see knight hunting or something with a railgun/CIB set-up, I guess.

What do you guys think about the interaction of dispersion pods and the Agile Flyer rule? 2+ jink? 3+? A bump to 2+ would more or less be mandatory, in my mind. If you're jinking with a gunboat, better make it count!

No pods on the Barracuda. Agile means it has a 3+ jink anyway, and it specifically cannot be buffed to 2+.

Agile Flyer wrote:A unit with this special rule increases any cover saves granted by the Jink special rule by +1 (to a maximum of 3+).

This being said, my Barracuda will likely have an ion cannon, and two cyclic ion blasters. 9 S7 shots at 18" and 3 S7 AP3 at 60", with potential for small blasts if you don't jink seems nice. I'll have to test it out when it arrives against a variety of opponents. I promise to return when I have it tested.

Right, but can the d-pod apply after the agility bonus for a 2+ save?

No. RAW a model with Agile Flyer can never have a cover save better than 3+.

Aeri wrote:
It has a 3+ jink and can easily get of the board with supersonic.
And also with Tau Markerlights it's going to always have a decent bs anyways
I think it's pretty damn strong for its pointcosts.

So you would spend at least 175 points, on something that is not on the board turn 1
maybe on the board turn 2, but jink the 2nd half of the turn/their turn 3A
fly of the board turn 3
return turn 4, jink
fly off turn 5....

seems like a waste of points if you intend to fly off when you jink.

and if you have marker lights after turn 2, unless from reserves, your opponent is in a world of hurt/doesn't realize what he's done.

If you don't have marker lights after turn two, you should seriously consider blaming yourself. Markerlight sources such as Sky Rays, Tetras, Marker Drones with Commanders, ect. are fairly easy to keep alive.
Markerlights will compensate for jink nicely.
I'm honestly beginning to think that railgun + cyclic ion blasters is a good anti-flyer loadout. The railgun could likely instagib most flyers up to a Marauder Destroyer, and flyers aren't exactly known for their ability to resist S7.
I regret to say that I managed to not notice the fact that the Barracuda had missile pods.

I don't get why the heavy burst cannon is 6 shots but a heavy burst cannon on a Riptide is 8 shot with potential for 12!

So let's look at this...For 175 pts I get 12 str 5 ignore cover shots, 6 str 6 shots and 2 str 7 shots. It doesn't arrive till turn 3 (most tau don't have reserve manipulation so may not arrive till turn 4)

You have a gakky armour value of 11 so as soon as something with vast amounts of str 5l6 or higher (3 scat bikes)shoots at you, you'll have to jink, and you can't alpha strike with it as it's off the board.....


But for 10 points more you can take a Riptide with 4 or 8 str 5 ignore cover shots...A heavy burst with 8 or 12 rending shots, gets at least 1 more shooting phases, can shoot twice in the formation, is much more durable and can effect objectives oh and has interceptor.

Nah this flyers worthless

You're ignoring the options of switching weapons out. Comparing this flyer to a Riptide is like asking why anyone would ever take Crisis Suits, as Riptides are basically the same but better, right?

 Verviedi wrote:
You're ignoring the options of switching weapons out. Comparing this flyer to a Riptide is like asking why anyone would ever take Crisis Suits, as Riptides are basically the same but better, right?

Because the weapon options are pointless. Only one perhaps worthwhile is th Ion cannon for AP 3 (but you lose half the shots). The str 10 ap 1 isn't worthwhile as Tau don't really have trouble with vehicles, and the Cyclonic Ion is losing you shots and range for higher str, of which a Tau army doesnt lack. You drop 20 shots down to 11 if you were to take the above upgrades, which makes it even less appealing.

My point is, its points cost - effeciency must be compared to something else as thats how you create an army and this is tactics which im trying to provide. If someone took 3 of these over a 3 man riptide wing, I would not understand the logic! Its rules are going in the right direction but they are not on par with other units. Even 3 Broadsides will provide more fire power and durability over this for 20 points more.

Using your logic, nobody should ever take anything except for Riptides. I know you won LVO, but are you looking at your own posts? Yes, this is not as top-tier as a Riptide, but calling it worthless is blatant hyperbole. You're not taking 3 of these instead of a Riptide Wing. The Barracuda is a decent unit that can take down flyers, infantry, and light vehicles. It can rapidly reposition itself, unlike Broadsides, and can drop S8 AP4 blasts wherever you like if you're using Cyclic Ions. Who cares about 18" range? The thing can move 24", that's an effective 40" range on the cyclic ions.

He's also ignoring the fact this thing is also geared more at killing other flyers with ground targets being a secondary concern, which I feel it does better than a riptide Could. You wouldn't spam these like riptides, you'd take one or two with the intent of owning the skies.

 Jaxler wrote:
He's also ignoring the fact this thing is also geared more at killing other flyers with ground targets being a secondary concern, which I feel it does better than a riptide Could. You wouldn't spam these like riptides, you'd take one or two with the intent of owning the skies.

you'd take 2-4 to run them in formation, and take advantage of the death from the skies modifiers to reserve rolls.

Hum....this boat puts out a startling 11 str 7 shots...that ignore jink and have sky fire. Pretty much auto include.

 pumaman1 wrote:

 Jaxler wrote:
He's also ignoring the fact this thing is also geared more at killing other flyers with ground targets being a secondary concern, which I feel it does better than a riptide Could. You wouldn't spam these like riptides, you'd take one or two with the intent of owning the skies.

you'd take 2-4 to run them in formation, and take advantage of the death from the skies modifiers to reserve rolls.

Exactly, you'd take 2.

Counts as fighter for attack pattern, with 2 front gets +1bs and +1 jink, with 3 you can get tank hunter or ignores cover, and with 4 you can get IWND, 4++, interceptor, or Ignores cover AND tank hunter. Outside of some points, you benefit from more than 2 greater than just 2. at 1500 points its too much, but 1850 or greater i'd say its ok

This is my attempt to use the one Barracuda I can afford right now.

CAD Experiment (Because 5th was totally flawless)
Rules are simple. No formations, no MFDs, no allies, no Lords of War. One CAD only. Extra points if it uses models and upgrades only available in 5th.
1500 points because that was standard in 5th.

HQ
Battlesuit Commander (128)
-Target Lock
-2x Missile Pod
-Drone Controller

Ethereal (50)

Troops
10x Breachers (170)
-Devilfish

5x Strikers (45)

5x Strikers (45)

Elites
3x Crisis Suits (156)
-6x Fusion

3x Crisis Suits (186)
-3x TL Fusion
-3x Plasma

Fast Attack
Y'vahra (265)
-Stimms

5x Pathfinders (55)

7x Marker Drones (84)

Heavy Support
Barracuda (185)
-Ion Cannon
-2x Cyclic Ion Blasters

2x Broadsides (130)
-HYMP

About time the Tau got a solid flyer with some real teeth, and we are finally seeing a way to crack armor 13 and armor 14 from the air! Being forced to start in reserves and zero ability to score objectives mean these things probably won't see hyper competitive environments, but they are leagues better than the insult to Tau players that are the Razorshark and Sunshark. Congrats to Forgeworld for putting out a solid Tau unit that isn't another battlesuit/giant death robot, even if it is just a revision of the older Barracuda.

Two key things: 1) 3hp, so 50% better endurance than the old Barracuda and 2) it's in a heavy support slot, instead of fast attack, which is a less crowded slot these days.

Also means I should be able to field my old Barracuda with the new one and keep two units of Tetras

It makes me sad that they can't be squadded. I'd love to run a pair when I get the money.

Why would you ever want to squad a pair of flyers in the point cost range. The flyer rules are already cumbersome enough already without needing to keep two of them in coherence. Plus, each one carries enough firepower that two would be overkill whenever you shot anything.

I honestly don't know. I just thought it would look cool.

 Verviedi wrote:
It makes me sad that they can't be squadded. I'd love to run a pair when I get the money.

and if you play by skies of death rules, which supposedly you must, you can bring them as a separate formation

Phanixis wrote:
Why would you ever want to squad a pair of flyers in the point cost range. The flyer rules are already cumbersome enough already without needing to keep two of them in coherence. Plus, each one carries enough firepower that two would be overkill whenever you shot anything.

 Verviedi wrote:
I honestly don't know. I just thought it would look cool.

I like you! This is a pimp like answer exalted sir exalted indeed. Why would you want a squad? I look better with 2 chicks! lol

Verviedi wrote:Using your logic, nobody should ever take anything except for Riptides. I know you won LVO, but are you looking at your own posts? Yes, this is not as top-tier as a Riptide, but calling it worthless is blatant hyperbole. You're not taking 3 of these instead of a Riptide Wing. The Barracuda is a decent unit that can take down flyers, infantry, and light vehicles. It can rapidly reposition itself, unlike Broadsides, and can drop S8 AP4 blasts wherever you like if you're using Cyclic Ions. Who cares about 18" range? The thing can move 24", that's an effective 40" range on the cyclic ions.

Ok worthless is perhaps an overeaction, however it is not worth the points. As for looking at my own posts, ofcourse I do, and yes as I said nobody should really be taking much else over Riptides! Riptides have won numerous tourneys here in the UK so im not talking from a lack of experience. If I face 2 of these over 2 Riptides, I'd be rubbing my hands together!

Taking down flyers, infantry and light vehicles is not something Tau need! Flyers are rarely seen in competitive play and if they are they tend to be fairly durable (fateweaver with 2++ rerolable).

Broadsides can be very manoeuvrable with marker lights, and an ethereal to make them run and shoot Also like I said, what if the flyer doesnt turn up till turn 4?

It is still only AV 11 so youll find it will be spending most of the game jinking or dead very soon. A unit of 3 or 4 scatbikes with 12-16 str 6 shots will almost garentee a jink as the chance of a couple of glances is pretty damn high! Does that have the same effect to a Riptide? No ofcourse not, and waht about a stormsurge? For almost 2 Baracuddas you can have a Stormsurge which has a much higher durablility and provides Tau with much needed High str low ap fire power as well as D and Stomp! The barracudas are basically flying broadsides with very little durability. Im giving you advice here so take it or leave it.

As cool as the model is, the rules just arnt good enough.

Jaxler wrote:He's also ignoring the fact this thing is also geared more at killing other flyers with ground targets being a secondary concern, which I feel it does better than a riptide Could. You wouldn't spam these like riptides, you'd take one or two with the intent of owning the skies.

Not really. If you want a riptide to be an effective flyer killer, it costs 20 points for skyfire.