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Purge benefit : Salt the earth. How many tests? How many dangerous zones?  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
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Made in fr
Tough Traitorous Guardsman






The Purge detachment allows any "model" firing a barrage weapon to leave "the template" in place on the board, which is now treated as a dangerous terrain area for a turn.
Do different templates force multiple dangerous terrain tests and what if they are overlapping?

Here is how I use it. Tell me if you think it's okay and fair. I'm concerned here with RAW but also to play it in a way that is not too overpowered.

The BRB says that if the pieces of terrain (which I now call "zone") are different, multiple dangerous tests are required in the same phase.
Since each individual blast creates a separate piece of dangerous terrain, each requires a different test.

Let's say there is blast A and blast B from two separate earthshakers, each creating a dangerous zone #1 and #2 but partially overlapping each other, creating a zone #3 in the middle.

I would say, then, that moving in zones 1&2 or in zones 2&3 or in zones 1&3 in the same phase involves two tests.
But just moving in zone 3 involves only one test, not two. It's easier to play and it avoids the strange situation involving two pieces of terrain at the same "place", which seems like an impossibility. That's why I'm talking about zone #3 : it's a separate zone, not two in the same place.
But I would say that moving in zone 1&2&3 in the same phase involves two tests, not three, because only two blasts were involved after all.

***
What is less clear to me, is if I fire a Barrage 4 weapon : do I place one blast --the original one that deviated-- or four? I would say four, but they create only one zone. Again, it's more friendly and easier to play.

I would say furthermore that one unit can create only one zone per phase. This zone comprises all the blast markers of the unit.

Let's say I have a unit of four quad launchers : the shooting attack, which involves sixteen blasts, create one dangerous zone as big as the sixteen blasts. So in the example above, this large zone would be zone #1. If I have another unit of four quad launchers, they create another single one large dangerous zone, which would be zone #2. If these two zones overlap, it creates zone #3 as above. The number of tests involved would be like I said.

What do you think?

This message was edited 14 times. Last update was at 2016/07/27 10:33:07


 
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




Each template must be a seperate piece of terrain, and so would force multiple tests if moved through. I woudl say this is true even if they overlap - there is nothing to say that pieces of terrain cannot overlap.

You lay 4, they create multiple zones RAW, being friendly 1 piece could be easier.
   
Made in fr
Tough Traitorous Guardsman






In a sense, it is easier to play that way.
This would mean this benefit is strong! 1x3 Wyverns, 12 twin-linked blasts mean a lot of overlapping. Potentially twelve dangerous tests (=2 wounds) per model!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/07/27 10:38:32


 
   
Made in de
Longtime Dakkanaut






I disagree that overlapping templates cause multiple dangerous terrrain tests.

I think the questionable bit is the exceptoin to one test per phase:
[quote[However, if a model moves into a different area of dangerous terrain, this must be tested for as normal.


What defines a different area of dangerous terrain? The RAW clearly assumes scenery pieces - actual ruins, forests, tank traps, whatever. Those are not expected to be stacked and by board setup rules shouldn't be placed adjoining either.

I think it would be perfectly fair to treat different 3" blasts that scattered as a separate area with a seperate test - since they don't overlap. However, overlapping templates I'd treat as a single zone.

With the Nurgle Purge chemical theme, my understanding is the rule is meant to represent lingering effects from biological or chemical warfare, which of course would be stronger where there were more hits. Yet, I think both from a practical gameplay and fairness point of view, I'd not push this.

   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




Oh I agree on a practical level that one test per contiguous area of effect makes sense

However you can end up with terrain on top of terrain - wrecked vehicle on top of dangerous terrain, for example. Thats two tests no matter what way you look at it .
   
Made in fr
Tough Traitorous Guardsman






I think Nosferatu1001 is right when saying that nothing in the rule says that two pieces of terrain cannot overlap. Also, when you say, Staphanius, that "The RAW clearly assumes scenery pieces etc.", you seem to me to be talking more on a RAI level.

Nevertheless, now that I read the Purge rule again, it does not say or suggest that it creates something like a ''piece of terrain'' or multiple pieces of terrain for multiple blasts.
The rule says : « the area under the template is considered dangerous terrain by all models ». It's hard to read this as to imply that the area under two blasts requires a model to roll twice for dangerous terrain. The area under two blasts is still one area, but it is now dangerous. When moving in that area, you are moving in one area, not two. Hence one test. (When, if that ever happens, a model is truly moving in two overlapping dangerous pieces of terrain, then I would say two tests are required.)

In conclusion, I would first say, following Nosferatu1001, that each blast ''creates'' under it a dangerous area each requiring its own test, but only one test is required when moving in an area covered by multiple blasts.

This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2016/07/27 14:15:15


 
   
Made in de
Longtime Dakkanaut






The wrecked vehicle is an excellent point!

RenegadeKorps, I think we come to the same HIWPI. =]

   
Made in fr
Tough Traitorous Guardsman






Cool! I think this interpretation is solid.
As an aside observation : this purge benefit is good against vehicles, since they have a large 'imprint' ; going through an area 'salted' by a 3-wyvern unit may request something like 1 to 12 dangerous tests! it means that if for example my friend (such friends, do they deserve that name?) plays a detachment comprising only Leman Russ, my Wyverns can still do something hurting.

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2016/07/27 13:20:37


 
   
Made in de
Longtime Dakkanaut






Yes, this is very interesting!

I've previously played a pure Unending Host detachment consisting of 12 units with 15 flashlights, 2 heavy weapons and one sigil each making up the four mandatory troops units. This plays very slow and wiped out T4 armies, but failed hard against T5 majority Necrons.

Mixing in a Purge detachment - which funny enough does not require a Demagoue Devotion and is therefore compatible! - expands this concept. While the basically army-wide Move Through Cover access Necrons have makes the Dangerous Terrain feature irrelevant, the shells themselves might help. =]

   
 
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