Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Vehicles
+AV values Stay the same
-Glancing hits go away - to roll on the table, the vehicle must suffer a pentrating hit
-Vehicles cannot be immobilized by terrain anymore
-Hull points go away
+Super Heavy vehicles ignore all table results under 7
+Super Heavy vehicles subtract 2 from rolls on the table.

General Damage Table
- Table is for GC's, MC's and Vehicles
- MC's roll on the table after they've lost half their wounds(rounding down) eg - 5 wound MC rolls once they lose their 3rd wound. They would roll on the table for each subsequent wound after half. GC's begin rolling on the table after they've lost 2/3rd wounds
- GC's ignore results on the table under 7
- D12 Table

D Weapons - if a unit survives a Weapon hit add 4 to the roll when rolling on this table
AP 1 Weapons add 3 to the table results
AP 2 Weapons add 2 to the table results
AP 3 Weqpons add 1 to the table results

Table values
2 or less Nothing - the attack harmlessly deflected off your armor.
3 or 4 - shaken - fires snap shots until the next turn
5 or 6 - stunned - can't move until the next turn
7 crippled - vehicle can only move their minimum distance(combat speed) in the movement phase and cannot flat out. MCs and GCs can only move 6" at a time and cannot run or do jetpack moves. Can only charge D6+3 inches
8 Weapon/Limb destroyed
9 Controls/Nerve damage - vehicle cannot turn or pivot. can only move in the direction its facing. MCs and GCs must pass a leadership check to turn or pivot - leadership checks for this action are at a -2 leadership.
10 Immobilized, but can still fire weapons, attack at inititiative 1 in close combat if it is assaulted. Can still use psychic powers.
11 Shutdown / Paralyzing hit - vehicle becomes immobile and can no longer fire. Can be repaired by units that repair vehicles. MC's and GC's can no longer move, shoot, make close combat attacks or use psychic abilities until the next turn.
12 Explodes / Death frenzy - vehicle explodes - MC/GC' loses complete control and attacks the closest unit then dies. THIS HAPPENS AT THE MOMENT THE UNIT suffers a DEATH FRENZY Roll. Death frenzy would includes all shooting attacks and melee attacks available to the unit as long as they are in range of the closest unit. If multiple units are equidistant, roll to see which unit is chosen as the target for the attacks. The for melee attacks the death frenzied unit must still roll to charge. Psychic powers cannot manifest as the unit has lost all ability to focus. The owner of the unit experiencing the death frenzy would roll d6 to see what attacks occur first. On a 1-3 Shooting, 4-6 Melee.

Gauss weapons change - Rolls of 6 cause penetrating hits

I really like the idea of a "Damage" table that affects vehicles, MCs and GCs. But man this is complicated.

Glancing hits and Hull Points should remain, but Glances should not strip HPs. Make them roll on the chart instead -2.

Kills anti tank too much with vehicles that go too far. Keep hull points or make exploding easier. What about Haywire?

MC stuff is way too complicated just make a table based on wounds lost.

This idea comes from all the chatter lately. And from ideas of a D10 system.

A D12 table is more to memorize. Yes I agree. Yet under this system, vehicles can't be glanced to death and AV 10 armor is only effected by Str6 weapons. Instead of Hull points, you have the table results. an index card should cover the results as well as a few markers.

AV10 vehicles would see the table much more often. Does it mean that flyers would need updates to their weapons so that they'd be able to pen av10, perhaps?

Also by expanding +1 modifier to AP3 you make more weapons viable against MC's and vehicles because they'll impact the damage table.

I gave MC's and GC's the ability to ignore the table until they've suffered a few wounds so that Tyranids have a chance. But after they've lost the prerequisit wounds, those Wraithknights and other GC's could be 1 shotted.

The table for MCs GCs and Vehicles adds a lot more realism the battle. I especially like crippled, shutdown/or paralizing hit. makes people think about taking a tech marine. Offers a big counter to MC/GC's raging around the board.

Death frenzy is designed to have major consequences for players that bubble wrap them or have them loitering in the back field. if they go down in a frenzy, they're going to take a unit with them hopefully.

Haywire Fix - for each successful haywire hit, roll a dice. on a 3+ roll on the damage table with a -1 modifier.
- Haywire can now affect vehicles and MC/GCs but cannot cause a result of 12.

ALSO Fix to Eldar Distort Weapons - All D weapons on except for Titan grade ones are - 2 on the table

I really think that it simplifies attacks against vehicles. Roll to hit. Roll to pen. If pen is successful, roll on the table and apply modifiers if AP1,2,3 or D. Makes them far more resilient and also serves to add more modifiers to GC's and MC's that are terribly out classing other unit types. Far fewer weapons can hurt vehicles now making them more effective. MCs and GCs will now suffer penalties when they start losing wounds.

I'm not saying the rule changes and table is perfect but I think this is the most viable solution to the power creep.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Updated

Vehicles
+AV values Stay the same
-Glancing hits go away - to roll on the table, the vehicle must suffer a pentrating hit
-Vehicles cannot be immobilized by terrain anymore
-Hull points go away Removed - Keep Hull points, only loose hull points on Pens

SHV
Super Heavy vehicles ignore all table results under 7 - this is effectively the following rule but allows for weapons to be destroyed -

Any effects from Shaken, Stunned, Immobilised or Weapon Destroyed are ignored (they still lose the HP).

+Super Heavy vehicles subtract 2 from rolls on the damange table table.
+Immediately after losing its last HP, it suffers Catastrophic Damage. Special Rules
+Invincible Behemoth: Any effect that Explodes or removes from play the vehicle loses D3 HP instead. Attacks that permanently lower the AV have no effect.

D Weapons - if a unit survives a Weapon hit add 4 to the roll when rolling on this table
AP 1 Weapons add 3 to the table results
AP 2 Weapons add 2 to the table results
AP 3 Weapons add 1 to the table results

Table values
2 or less Nothing - the attack harmlessly deflected off your armor.
3 or 4 - shaken - fires snap shots until the next turn
5 or 6 - stunned - can't move until the next turn
7 crippled - vehicle can only move their minimum distance(combat speed) in the movement phase and cannot flat out.
9 Control damage - vehicle cannot turn or pivot. can only move in the direction its facing.
10 Immobilized, but can still fire weapons, attack at initiative 1 in close combat if it is assaulted. Can still use psychic powers.
11 Shutdown- vehicle becomes immobile and can no longer fire. Can be repaired by units that repair vehicles.
12 Explodes - vehicle explodes - Loses D3 hull points

Gauss weapons change - Rolls of 6 cause penetrating hits

Haywire Fix - for each successful haywire hit, roll a dice. on a 3+ roll on the damage table with a -1 modifier.
- Haywire can now affect vehicles and MC/GCs but cannot cause a result of 12.

MC / GC table - The following table is rolled on after the MC or GC loses 2 wounds
02 or less. Nothing
03 or 04. Shaken - fires snap shots until the next turn
05 or 06. Stunned - Can't attack until the next turn unless charged and then it attacks at Initiative 1.
07. Crippled - MCs and GCs can only move 6" at a time and cannot run or do jetpack moves. Can only charge D6+3 inches - Remainder of the game
08. Weapon destroyed - same as before
09. System/Nerve damage - Must pass a leadership check perform any action - leadership checks at a -2 leadership.
10. Paralyzing damage - Can no longer move, shoot, make close combat attacks or use psychic abilities until the next turn.
11. Immobilized - Can no longer move for the remainder of the game
12. Explosion - Cause d3 wounds. These wounds would be on top of the wounds suffered during a hit.

I love the unified idea, but I think it could stand to be much, much simpler. Separate MCs somehow, something like this:

Vehicles: Glancing Hits: Vehicles ignore a number of glancing hits per turn equal to the number of hull points they have lost.
Ex: If a vehicle has lost two hull points in a battle, it will take three glancing hits in one player turn to remove a third hull point.
Ex: If a vehicle loses it's first hull point in a turn, it will take two additional glancing hits to remove another hull point.

Vehicles: Penetrating Hit: Lose one hull point. Roll on the damage chart. +1 to rolls if the weapon is AP2, +2 if the weapon is AP1.
Vehicles only suffer the Shaken and Staggered effects for one turn.

Monstrous Creatures: Roll on the damage chart each time this model loses a wound. +1 to rolls if the weapon is S9, +2 if the weapon is S10.
Monstrous Creatures choose one damage effect at the beginning of each of their controller's turns. That effect is automatically repaired.

Damage chart:
1-2: Shaken - Next turn only, weapons must fire at closest enemy target in Line of Sight.
3: Staggered - Next turn only, model moves at full speed in a direction of a scatter die.
4: Weapon Damage - One Random Weapon may not fire.
5: Immobilized - Model may no longer move.
6: Collapse - Reduce all Armor Values and Saves by 1.
7+ : Direct Hit - Lose one extra HP or Wound.