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Hey all, I'm looking to be building for a tourney at my local shop. How's the following look? (Note I don't have it up all the way to 1750 points):

Astra Militarum (1705/1850pt.) 1750 tank division with multiple detachments
http://hq-builder.com/shared/143926


@Primary Detachment [ 1 ]

'Emperor's Fist' Armoured Company
Astra Militarum;

Knight Commander Pask (400pt.)
> 1x - Command Leman Russ Vanquisher (165pt.); Searchlight; Smoke launchers; Vanquisher battle cannon; Lascannon; Multimelta (x2);
> 1x - Leman Russ Vanquisher (165pt.); Searchlight; Smoke launchers; Vanquisher battle cannon; Lascannon; Multimelta (x2);
Leman Russ Squadron (210pt.)
> 1x - Leman Russ Demolisher (210pt.); Searchlight; Smoke launchers; Demolisher siege cannon; Lascannon; Plasma cannon (x2);
Leman Russ Squadron (130pt.)
> 1x - Leman Russ Eradicator (130pt.); Searchlight; Smoke launchers; Eradicator nova cannon; Heavy flamer (x3);
Leman Russ Squadron (160pt.)
> 1x - Leman Russ Punisher (160pt.); Searchlight; Smoke launchers; Punisher gatling cannon; Heavy flamer; Heavy bolter (x2);
Enginseer (40pt.) Power armour; Laspistol; Power axe; Frag grenades; Krak grenades; Servo-arm;
@Secondary Detachment [ 1 ]

Astra Militarum (Combined arms detachment)
Astra Militarum;

@HQ [ 1 ]

5x - Company Command Squad (60pt.)
> 1x - Company Commander ; Refractor field; Frag grenades; Close combat weapon; Laspistol; Flak armour;
> 4x - Veteran ; Frag grenades; Lasgun; Flak armour;

@Troops [ 2 ]

10x - Veterans (60pt.)
> 1x - Veteran Sergeant ; Frag grenades; Close combat weapon; Laspistol; Flak armour;
> 9x - Veteran ; Frag grenades; Lasgun; Flak armour;


10x - Veterans (60pt.)
> 1x - Veteran Sergeant ; Frag grenades; Close combat weapon; Laspistol; Flak armour;
> 9x - Veteran ; Frag grenades; Lasgun; Flak armour;

@Fast attack [ 2 ]

Valkyrie Squadron (145pt.)
> 1x - Valkyrie (145pt.); Extra armour; Searchlight; Lascannon; Multiple rocket pod (x2);


Vendetta Squadron (170pt.)
> 1x - Vendetta (170pt.); Searchlight; Extra armour; Twin-linked lascannon (x3);

@Heavy support [ 1 ]

Manticore (170pt.) Storm eagle rockets; Searchlight; Smoke launchers; Heavy bolter;

@Fortification [ 1 ]

Aegis Defense Line (100pt.) Quad-gun;

Statistics:
* Models: 34
* Units: 11

@Created by Head Quarters - online roster builder

You cant take Pask in the Emperor's Fist Armoured Company

Actually he can when it is a detachment ..but not as part of the Cadian Battle Group decurion

http://pro.bols.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/13087086_1610527059267927_5304607660492643046_o.jpg?56750f Im just going off the faq

Where does it say you can take him if its not part of the cadian battle group decurion ?

Does anyone have any suggestions for this list?

The big issue I see with it is the demolisher cannon is ordnance and therefore the other weapons on the tank can only fire snap shots. So I would probably remove the lascannon and plasma cannons from the demolisher and maybe the multimeltas from the vanquishers due to their short range and not wanting pask that close to the front but that is just my personal preference. That said the multimeltas can do work with pask so it really depends on how you plan on using him.

Now I'm genuinely a bit curious, what are the rules of the order in which weapons on a tank like a Leman Russ must fire?

I'll probably remove the plasma cannons as they aren't really doing much good I suppose.

Also, one thing that's missing above is that every tank will have camo netting, the idea being that they will sit behind the defense line and get 3+ cover saves.

Woulda anyone recommend replacing some stuff with an imperial knight or a bane blade? Or any other changes? One issue I do think I have is against melee units that deep strike.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also I believe that the engine seer allows me to select one unit and let it fire other gaks at full BS even though it has ordnance?

 deltaKshatriya wrote:
Now I'm genuinely a bit curious, what are the rules of the order in which weapons on a tank like a Leman Russ must fire?

I'll probably remove the plasma cannons as they aren't really doing much good I suppose.

Also, one thing that's missing above is that every tank will have camo netting, the idea being that they will sit behind the defense line and get 3+ cover saves.

Woulda anyone recommend replacing some stuff with an imperial knight or a bane blade? Or any other changes? One issue I do think I have is against melee units that deep strike.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also I believe that the engine seer allows me to select one unit and let it fire other gaks at full BS even though it has ordnance?

Out of the baneblade and imperial knight go with the knight as its much cheaper and offers a nice way to stomp some invisible deathstars out of existence and the scariest unit that will attack and deepstrike is probably the shadowstrike kill team 10 meltabombs charging the turn they come in is bad news to any tank list and I personally have had a baneblade obliterated turn 1 by this, the knight will still get to hit back and stomp but its unlikely they will go for It keep the tank wrapped in troops if you play against this cause it will delete a squadron of tanks it chooses. The enginseer gives POTMS so one extra weapon may fire at full BS. Ordnance must be fired first as to prevent all the other weapons firing. If you are going to be short range with multi meltas pask is likely to be better off with the punisher due to a higher rear armour and 20 S5 rending shots with rerolls to pen is likely to make a bigger dent in most vehicles than 1 vanquisher cannon the exception to this would be high armour vehicles land raiders etc but if you add extra vanquishers keep him near pask for BS4 if you decide to remove sponsons than adding a bare bones infantry platoon could create some nice bubble wrap to deter some melee threats in a tournament faster moving units are likely to remove your aegis cover saves (drop pods in particular) so keeping a platoon of guys around the tanks will still give them a 4+ and the ability to keep mobile 100 points from the aegis will get you a nice mobile platoon to keep the tanks safe on the Valkyrie stick with the multi laser as that flyer wants to be targeting infantry with its missle pods I'm assuming 1 vet squad rides in Valkyrie and command squad in vendetta? If so investing in some flamers would be nice you could drop in burn some infantry on an objective and take it or kit them out for other means. If your looking to strip points I'd go with removing the manticore as much as it is a great vehicle I fail to see what it adds to the list that you don't already have.

Anyway just my opinion.

You gotta give the vets melta or plasma.. or something to make use of their BS4. Not enough flashlights to make a difference. Honestly, all you can dow tih an AM list like this is cross your fingers and hope you don't come up against SM with grav (not likely), Eldar with scatter lasers or D weapons (hmm), or IK (or anything else with a D weapon).... its just tough to make a decent AM list these days. I think you're missing out on wyverns, which are the best unit (for the cost) in the codex -- beyond that, drop pods will make a mess of your backfield if you let them get back there. Who are the objective grabbers in the list?

Yea dude, you dont have much mobility in there, you could put vets in the valk but that wont get you much more than a objective with the way they are kitted out. The outflank warlord trait would help you out a ton. Definetly missing a wyvern, I just started using it and its been sick, 1/3 of the cost of that manticore that can only shoot four times. Youll lose some range but youve got that covered with pask, and the demolisher for close range support as well.

Ok I'll throw a wyvern in there, and I should be able to add another squad of veterans with that. Do people generally think the Wyvern is better than the Manticore?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I may throw an infantry platoon in there actually.

It depends, I think from a general stand point the Wyvern can threaten multiple infantry units and score way more wounds than a manticore can. However the manticore will insti kill a whole lotta things out there, and can target armour (something better left to tanks or vets from my point of view). Recently I have been preferring the wyvern because it frees up points for other things. Manticore being 170 points, Wyvern being 65, you take the Wyvern and you have 105 points to play around with. You could kit out the vets with melta and the demo doctrine and go after some big game.

So here's an updated list right now:

Astra Militarum (1755/1850pt.) 1750 tank division with multiple detachments
http://hq-builder.com/shared/144494


@Primary Detachment [ 1 ]

'Emperor's Fist' Armoured Company
Astra Militarum;

Knight Commander Pask (430pt.)
> 1x - Command Leman Russ Vanquisher (180pt.); Searchlight; Smoke launchers; Vanquisher battle cannon; Lascannon; Multimelta (x2); Camo netting;
> 1x - Leman Russ Vanquisher (180pt.); Searchlight; Smoke launchers; Vanquisher battle cannon; Lascannon; Multimelta (x2); Camo netting;
Leman Russ Squadron (195pt.)
> 1x - Leman Russ Demolisher (195pt.); Searchlight; Smoke launchers; Demolisher siege cannon; Lascannon; Camo netting;
Leman Russ Squadron (145pt.)
> 1x - Leman Russ Eradicator (145pt.); Searchlight; Smoke launchers; Eradicator nova cannon; Heavy flamer (x3); Camo netting;
Leman Russ Squadron (175pt.)
> 1x - Leman Russ Punisher (175pt.); Searchlight; Smoke launchers; Punisher gatling cannon; Heavy flamer; Heavy bolter (x2); Camo netting;
Enginseer (40pt.) Power armour; Laspistol; Power axe; Frag grenades; Krak grenades; Servo-arm;
@Secondary Detachment [ 1 ]

Astra Militarum (Combined arms detachment)
Astra Militarum;

@HQ [ 1 ]

5x - Company Command Squad (60pt.)
> 1x - Company Commander ; Refractor field; Frag grenades; Close combat weapon; Laspistol; Flak armour;
> 4x - Veteran ; Frag grenades; Lasgun; Flak armour;

@Troops [ 4 ]

10x - Veterans (60pt.)
> 1x - Veteran Sergeant ; Frag grenades; Close combat weapon; Laspistol; Flak armour;
> 9x - Veteran ; Frag grenades; Lasgun; Flak armour;


10x - Veterans (60pt.)
> 1x - Veteran Sergeant ; Frag grenades; Close combat weapon; Laspistol; Flak armour;
> 9x - Veteran ; Frag grenades; Lasgun; Flak armour;


10x - Veterans (60pt.)
> 1x - Veteran Sergeant ; Frag grenades; Close combat weapon; Laspistol; Flak armour;
> 9x - Veteran ; Frag grenades; Lasgun; Flak armour;


10x - Veterans (60pt.)
> 1x - Veteran Sergeant ; Frag grenades; Close combat weapon; Laspistol; Flak armour;
> 9x - Veteran ; Frag grenades; Lasgun; Flak armour;

@Fast attack [ 2 ]

Valkyrie Squadron (135pt.)
> 1x - Valkyrie (135pt.); Extra armour; Searchlight; Multi-laser; Multiple rocket pod (x2);


Vendetta Squadron (170pt.)
> 1x - Vendetta (170pt.); Searchlight; Extra armour; Twin-linked lascannon (x3);

@Heavy support [ 1 ]

Wyvern Battery (65pt.)
> 1x - Wyvern (65pt.); Twin-linked stormshard mortar (x2); Searchlight; Smoke launchers; Heavy bolter;

@Fortification [ 1 ]

Aegis Defense Line (100pt.) Quad-gun;

Statistics:
* Models: 54
* Units: 13

@Created by Head Quarters - online roster builder


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The idea is that I use the infantry to pad my tanks' flanks. What I'm wondering is if the sacrifice of the Manticore is worth the two veteran squads and a wyvern.

Alternatively I could throw in a sentinel squad or two instead of one of the veteran squads.

Considering they are bare bones it may be worth changing them to infantry platoons to get more bodies this means more guys can surround a tank

Your veterans need special weapons (melta or plasma) and chimeras. Otherwise you'd be better off running them as an infantry platoon (as mentioned above) with an attached Priest or Commissar.