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HI!

Am super new to 40k and I only played a few game, but seriously 20+ bikes, 2 dreadnought, 2 scout squads and some more nasty stuff. This is cancer for real! I play skitarri and cult and i get steamrolled in turn one with like 8 grav guns and 4++ meltas, like it's not even fun to lose your army so fast! twinlink and rapidfire! Where do I start on that lol?

I have played this kind of white scar setup a few times and am ready to throw my army in the trash!

What can I do at 1500 to have any chance?

Thanks!

1. Bikes are awful in close combat. If they don't have characters with them then they just won't have the wounds or the attacks to deal with a dedicated melee unit. Infiltrators can help but bikes can just run away from them. Dragoons are probably your best weapon against a bike list. If all else fails, charge with your vanguard so the bikes lose 1 toughness while they're in combat and your real assault units get ready to charge. Overwatch is a pain but I don't think whitescars fire snap shots at bs2 the way ravenwing does.

2. Bike armies don't have enough models. Spam lots of vanguard with carbines and an omnispex in each squad to reduce their jink saves.

3. Use an elimination maniple formation. Then when you hit a unit with a kastelan's phosphor, your grav destroyers get ignore cover and bs+1 against that unit. 15 grav shots against a power armor unit with no cover save = approximately 1 billion dead bikes.

Play with people who aren't WAAC.
It seems to me that his army was really more competitive than your: that is a huge problem with 40k actually, there is such a power creep that, if you don't talk to you opponent BEFORE the battle, you may have lost even before having deploying your army.
But if you know what you are going to battle, then 40k is perfectly fine.

Grab some sort of cover-ignoring ap3 with Str 5 or higher, and blow up the bikers on turn 1.

Dreadnoughts are relatively easy to pop with dedicated anti-armour firepower, and they don't bring much firepower for their points.

Scout Squads should be a low priority target, and damn near anything can take them out.

What else do you face?

 godardc wrote:
Play with people who aren't WAAC.
It seems to me that his army was really more competitive than your: that is a huge problem with 40k actually, there is such a power creep that, if you don't talk to you opponent BEFORE the battle, you may have lost even before having deploying your army.
But if you know what you are going to battle, then 40k is perfectly fine.

How is that list WAAC? It has Dreads for feths sake.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 godardc wrote:
Play with people who aren't WAAC.
It seems to me that his army was really more competitive than your: that is a huge problem with 40k actually, there is such a power creep that, if you don't talk to you opponent BEFORE the battle, you may have lost even before having deploying your army.
But if you know what you are going to battle, then 40k is perfectly fine.

How is that list WAAC? It has Dreads for feths sake.

How are dreads bad?

I hear this so often but its nut backed up by any evidence. Especially iron clads, AV13, 6 attacks on the charge, with hit and run. Yea... real awful

Even a standard dread with no upgrades is a pain. In a scouting bike list it isn't like you can afford to shoot past the bikes at a dread with cover.

Besides he didn't say what kind of dread, it could be a deredeo dreadnaught 48" away in ruins.

If you think that even a standard Dread with no upgrades is a pain, that's your own fault, not the Dread's.

They're 3 HP and require a Pod. It isn't like that is hard to play around.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also Deredreos have decent damage output but suffer from being expensive for how durable they aren't.

 Selym wrote:
Grab some sort of cover-ignoring ap3 with Str 5 or higher, and blow up the bikers on turn 1.

Most (codex) armies don't have access to any such thing. Cult/Skitarii have nothing like that without a lucky phosphor hit from an elimination maniple.

I'm fairly certain there is a psychic power for ignores cover.

At the very minimum a triple vindicator squsdron does that.

 Red Corsair wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 godardc wrote:
Play with people who aren't WAAC.
It seems to me that his army was really more competitive than your: that is a huge problem with 40k actually, there is such a power creep that, if you don't talk to you opponent BEFORE the battle, you may have lost even before having deploying your army.
But if you know what you are going to battle, then 40k is perfectly fine.

How is that list WAAC? It has Dreads for feths sake.

How are dreads bad?

I hear this so often but its nut backed up by any evidence. Especially iron clads, AV13, 6 attacks on the charge, with hit and run. Yea... real awful

Even a standard dread with no upgrades is a pain. In a scouting bike list it isn't like you can afford to shoot past the bikes at a dread with cover.

Besides he didn't say what kind of dread, it could be a deredeo dreadnaught 48" away in ruins.

It's because dreads take a fraction of the abuse of MCs of the same cost before they die.

 Selym wrote:
I'm fairly certain there is a psychic power for ignores cover.

At the very minimum a triple vindicator squsdron does that.

Perfect Timing only affects the Psyker and the unit it is joined to which limits what you can give Ignore Cover to

 CrownAxe wrote:

 Selym wrote:
I'm fairly certain there is a psychic power for ignores cover.

At the very minimum a triple vindicator squsdron does that.

Perfect Timing only affects the Psyker and the unit it is joined to which limits what you can give Ignore Cover to

Ally in some psykers and find some 38"+ ap3 or 2 weapons in infantry?

Maybe some allied plasma devs?

See, I read the original post as one of those "how can I beat X army with Y army?" questions. They might be looking for an answer other than "ally in a different army".

Yo!

So ill try to list what he had.

20+ bikes
3 drop pods
2x squads of scouts
2x land speeder with some kind of rocket pods
2x dreadnoughts 2x power claws, flamer, and i think some melta.



He was useing a Hunting force, Kor'sarro khan and sergent telion.

more then that i don't remember!

the WAAC comp as some of you asked i get a feeling that many guys rool with comps like that at my local club.

also since am new i know i also do tons of mistake. but it just was not fun to get destroyed so hard in the start.

Like he scouts to the middle of the map then drive with in 12 range and unloads and me and all my stuff is dead almost. it feel just wrong haha.

what am aiming for is a 1850 white dwarf formation i have my imperial knight in production so i think that also will change the game a bit. and i lose the get hot rule and get free weapons and war gear.

Real News wrote:
See, I read the original post as one of those "how can I beat X army with Y army?" questions. They might be looking for an answer other than "ally in a different army".

I always hate that response. "Man, I'm having trouble with X army as Necrons, what can I do?". "How about bring an Imperial Knight!". "Oh snap, totally didn't think of that ground breaking advice.".

Seriously guys...

Sadly, in many cases, it's the only suitable answer.

 Selym wrote:
Sadly, in many cases, it's the only suitable answer.

That should be a testament to how bad the current state of the game is, in my opinion.

 krodarklorr wrote:

 Selym wrote:
Sadly, in many cases, it's the only suitable answer.

That should be a testament to how bad the current state of the game is, in my opinion.

And yet we have people saying this is the best edition of 40k ever -.-

 Selym wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:

 Selym wrote:
Sadly, in many cases, it's the only suitable answer.

That should be a testament to how bad the current state of the game is, in my opinion.

And yet we have people saying this is the best edition of 40k ever -.-

Well yeah, but those people are probably Eldar, Tau, or vanilla Marine players.

 krodarklorr wrote:

 Selym wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:

 Selym wrote:
Sadly, in many cases, it's the only suitable answer.

That should be a testament to how bad the current state of the game is, in my opinion.

And yet we have people saying this is the best edition of 40k ever -.-

Well yeah, but those people are probably Eldar, Tau, or vanilla Marine players.

I know a guy who can't understand why I think that 7E has imbalances or rules bloat :E

Hopefully 8E will either fix everything or kill the playerbase.

 Selym wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:

 Selym wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:

 Selym wrote:
Sadly, in many cases, it's the only suitable answer.

That should be a testament to how bad the current state of the game is, in my opinion.

And yet we have people saying this is the best edition of 40k ever -.-

Well yeah, but those people are probably Eldar, Tau, or vanilla Marine players.

I know a guy who can't understand why I think that 7E has imbalances or rules bloat :E

Hopefully 8E will either fix everything or kill the playerbase.

Yeah. Either of those options would be good. "Do I keep my army, or sell everything?" 8th will hold the answer.

maybe the table turns at 1850 with my formation. have to test any see. as was mention i do have a knight in that formation haha!

dooxy wrote:
maybe the table turns at 1850 with my formation. have to test any see. as was mention i do have a knight in that formation haha!

What models do you have?

 Selym wrote:

dooxy wrote:
maybe the table turns at 1850 with my formation. have to test any see. as was mention i do have a knight in that formation haha!

What models do you have?

Cult
1x tech prist
2x destroyers
1x robot the kastell i forgot the name!

Skitarri
1x Crawler
1x ironstrider
1x Ranger
1x vanguards
1x ruststalkers
1x infiltrator

Squads btw
1x Knight crusader in production.

Righty-ho! Anyone know what the AdMech units do?

I never seen them in action, and I've never looked inside the book. Tbh, I don't even know what names correspond to which models.

Advice I can give you from this standpoint, is that your army looks like you went out and bought one of everything without considering how to make them function together.
You need a purpose for each unit, and some should be duplicated to double down on that purpose. Rarely is it a good idea to take one thing from every slot.

Unless you play Eldar, then that's exactly what you want

 Selym wrote:
Righty-ho! Anyone know what the AdMech units do?

I never seen them in action, and I've never looked inside the book. Tbh, I don't even know what names correspond to which models.

Advice I can give you from this standpoint, is that your army looks like you went out and bought one of everything without considering how to make them function together.
You need a purpose for each unit, and some should be duplicated to double down on that purpose. Rarely is it a good idea to take one thing from every slot.

Unless you play Eldar, then that's exactly what you want

White dwarf 69 PDF online http://mork.synology.me/side/warhammer/White%20Dwarf/New/White%20Dwarf%20Issue%2069%20-%20May%2023rd,%202015.pdf scroll to page

• 1 Cult Mechanicus Battle Congregation Detachment (see Codex: Cult Mechanicus)
• 1 Skitarii Battle Maniple (see Codex: Skitarii)
• 1 Imperial Knight Oathsworn Detachment (see Codex: Imperial Knights)

SPECIAL RULES:
The Machine Brotherhood of Mars: All units in this formation have the Canticles of
the Omnissiah special rule (see Codex: Cult Mechanicus), even though they do not all
have the Cult Mechanicus Faction.
Alpha-Dominus: If this Formation’s Tech-Priest Dominus is your Warlord, you can reroll
the result when rolling on the Warlord Traits table in Codex: Cult Mechanicus.
Might of the Adeptus Mechanicus: All weapon and wargear options taken by units in
this Formation, including any Relics of Mars or Arcana Mechanicum, are free.
Furthermore, all weapons with the Gets Hot special rule carried by a model in this
Formation no longer has the Gets Hot special rule.

This only works at around 1850 points, and i can only twerk it lightly, i can remove the cult mechanicus kastelan robots and go for another skitarii crawler for example.
most of my army have plasma so het hot remove is a big plus.

this formation i was told to basically get when i got started because i had zero clue what i even was buying in the store. i just wanted to get in to the game and i loved all the models. now am a bit smarter maybe just a tiny bit haha!

dooxy wrote:

 Selym wrote:

dooxy wrote:
maybe the table turns at 1850 with my formation. have to test any see. as was mention i do have a knight in that formation haha!

What models do you have?

Cult
1x tech prist
2x destroyers
1x robot the kastell i forgot the name!

Skitarri
1x Crawler
1x ironstrider
1x Ranger
1x vanguards
1x ruststalkers
1x infiltrator

Squads btw
1x Knight crusader in production.

Ok, based on the army you are playing, and the Biker army making you annoying. I think a few constructive comment / suggestion could be provided.

1st, most SM Biker army rely on shooting, and generally don't like combat. If they charge into your army voluntarily, they must wanna to hide in your Squad to avoid being shot, so MSU is better than a large blob squad, unless it is very killy, like having AP3, or rending option (i.e. your rustalkers or infiltrators) for those non choppy unit, if get charged, just hope them die immediately instead providing shelter for your opponent in your own shooting phase.

2nd, in view that they would most likely rely on shooting, getting more AP2/3 shooting weapons the better, Ignore cover is a bonus But not a must when fighting WS bikers. If you force them to jink, you are reducing their damage output. Imho, your army can do well in this aspect, between the Knight Crusader, plasma Vanguard, Kastellen Robot and Destroyers.

3rd, some more "advanced" tactical advice are: when on table top, try to limit their mobility. For example, if you have infiltrators or allied SM Droppods, you can get these units in front of their units, creating road blocks and try to bog them in for a few turns, if you have Inquisition ally, use the servo skull to make their pre game scout move difficult. Moreover, putting objectives closer together would benefit you more than him, especially in Maelstorm or ITC similar games.

thats some greate ideas thanks!