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FAQ says ICs do not get "Bounding Lope" but does not stop the Wulfen from using it, but must maintain unit coherency.

So when you charge does this mean you would have to daisy chain the wulfen to not break coherency from the IC or can the Wulfen just leave the IC where he is standing and only have to keep coherency while Moving, Running?

You always have to maintain unit coherency, and ICs can only detach in the movement phase. So you would have to daisy chain your Wulfen. Is Bounding Lope the run+charge rule? If it is, you can run just the Wulfen and not the IC, and then charge with everyone. If you run the IC as well, he cannot charge, and I believe that means the entire unit cannot charge as well. Same reason you couldn't charge just a few of the guys in a tactical squad after firing a plasma cannon or something.

If the IC runs it is not allowed to assault.

That does not mean its assault move distance value is 0, it means it cannot assault. If the IC is attached to an unit the unit cannot assault either.

as Kharn stated above.

People do it with the Iron Priest.
Priest on Thunderwolf with four Cyberwolves joins Wulfen, gets Bestial swiftness and daisy chains the cyberwolves back to the Wulfen to lock them into combat on the first turn even though the Wulfen themselves can't actually reach combat on the first turn.

 Dakka Wolf wrote:
People do it with the Iron Priest.
Priest on Thunderwolf with four Cyberwolves joins Wulfen, gets Bestial swiftness and daisy chains the cyberwolves back to the Wulfen to lock them into combat on the first turn even though the Wulfen themselves can't actually reach combat on the first turn.

That's what I thought, sounds sketch and likely one of those scenarios where you would become TFG real quick if you pulled this..

Depends who you're up against.
I've been told running TWC makes me TFG.
I've been told running Wulfen makes me TFG.
I've been called TFG for bombarding infantry on my first turn.
I've been called TFG buy a guy running three Wraithknights in an 1850 point match.
I've been told it's impossible for a pure Space Wolves player to be a TFG.
I also recently got told to stop obsessing over what makes a TFG.

 Dakka Wolf wrote:
People do it with the Iron Priest.
Priest on Thunderwolf with four Cyberwolves joins Wulfen, gets Bestial swiftness and daisy chains the cyberwolves back to the Wulfen to lock them into combat on the first turn even though the Wulfen themselves can't actually reach combat on the first turn.

Which still isn't allowed by the rules as outlined above.

The ironpriest is not allowed to assault, which is not the same as it cannot move during the assault. This prevents the rest of the unit from declaring an assault as well.

You would have to Move the unit, run the Wulfen while also maintaining unit coherency with the IC..then make your charge.

So here is a question that I've been meaning to figure out. Still new to the game. I play against Space Wolves pretty frequently.

Can the Wulfen shoot those grenade launcher things and still run?

I've played against Tau who have been able to run+shoot but I can't tell if that was just a Tau thing or if Wulfen can do it too?

 WulfenClaw wrote:
You would have to Move the unit, run the Wulfen while also maintaining unit coherency with the IC..then make your charge.

The attached IC would also count as running still, even if you move it 0". Which is why it does not work. Said IC cannot run and assault, if it is attached the unit cannot assault still.

I'll just drop these here. They aren't exactly clear on how they're supposed to work, but they make it pretty clear that attaching an IC doesn't prevent either Bounding Lope or For Glory, For Russ from allowing the unit to charge. Hopefully when the final draft is out, they will give specifics on whether or not the IC is allowed to run.

Site won't let me do both photos in one post from my phone for some reason. Here's the other FAQ.

blaktoof wrote:

 WulfenClaw wrote:
You would have to Move the unit, run the Wulfen while also maintaining unit coherency with the IC..then make your charge.

The attached IC would also count as running still, even if you move it 0". Which is why it does not work. Said IC cannot run and assault, if it is attached the unit cannot assault still.

I get what you're saying, it's just that the FAQ trumps what you are saying, and the FAQ isn't exactly crystal clear..which is why we can't have nice things.

 WulfenClaw wrote:

blaktoof wrote:

 WulfenClaw wrote:
You would have to Move the unit, run the Wulfen while also maintaining unit coherency with the IC..then make your charge.

The attached IC would also count as running still, even if you move it 0". Which is why it does not work. Said IC cannot run and assault, if it is attached the unit cannot assault still.

I get what you're saying, it's just that the FAQ trumps what you are saying, and the FAQ isn't exactly crystal clear..which is why we can't have nice things.

The faq does not say otherwise. It is not clear in what it says. It says the wulcen may still use the rule but the IC may not benefit. This doesn't say the unit can assault despite the IC not being allowed to. It could easily mean the wulfen can benefit when allowed, which would mean if went to assault and the unit was allowed to, recall the faq states the IC does not benefit so the unit is not allowed to declare assault if it runs, then the superb could reroll their assault move but must maintain coherency with the IC.

This would be in line with the other faq answers that allow multiple modes of movement in an unit when all the models are allowed to move.


The faq does not grant permission for part of an unit to assault when the rest is not allowed to, that just isn't written in the faq.

blaktoof wrote:

 WulfenClaw wrote:

blaktoof wrote:

 WulfenClaw wrote:
You would have to Move the unit, run the Wulfen while also maintaining unit coherency with the IC..then make your charge.

The attached IC would also count as running still, even if you move it 0". Which is why it does not work. Said IC cannot run and assault, if it is attached the unit cannot assault still.

I get what you're saying, it's just that the FAQ trumps what you are saying, and the FAQ isn't exactly crystal clear..which is why we can't have nice things.

The faq does not say otherwise. It is not clear in what it says. It says the wulcen may still use the rule but the IC may not benefit. This doesn't say the unit can assault despite the IC not being allowed to. It could easily mean the wulfen can benefit when allowed, which would mean if went to assault and the unit was allowed to, recall the faq states the IC does not benefit so the unit is not allowed to declare assault if it runs, then the superb could reroll their assault move but must maintain coherency with the IC.

This would be in line with the other faq answers that allow multiple modes of movement in an unit when all the models are allowed to move.


The faq does not grant permission for part of an unit to assault when the rest is not allowed to, that just isn't written in the faq.

The FAQ says that the wulfen can still use bounding lope if an IC is attached to the unit. Bounding Lope says that the wulfen can run and still charge. How does the FAQ not grant permission for the unit to assault when the FAQ clearly says that they can still use a rule that allows them to assault?

This doesn't say the unit can assault despite the IC not being allowed to.

- that's actually exactly what the FAQ says.

It could easily mean the wulfen can benefit when allowed, which would mean if went to assault and the unit was allowed to, recall the faq states the IC does not benefit so the unit is not allowed to declare assault if it runs, then the superb could reroll their assault move but must maintain coherency with the IC.

- I'm sorry, what? I think you're saying that they can use the rule but not if an IC is attached but that's the opposite of what the FAQ *actually* says.

The faq does not grant permission for part of an unit to assault when the rest is not allowed to, that just isn't written in the faq.

- actually, that's almost exactly what the FAQ says you can do. It says that the Wulfen can still run and charge even thought the IC does not benefit from the rule. So the only thing we do know for sure is that the wulfen can charge and are not stopped from running and charging just because you attached an IC. The only question is whether or not the IC can run too, so as long as the IC does not move during the run, I would say it's very clear that the FAQ is telling you that the unit can still charge.

The faq says "do the wulfen still get to use bounding lope"

answer: "yes but the IC does not benefit, and all the models in the unit must maintain coherency"

bounding lope provides two different benefits.
1- the unit can run and assault (unit of wulfen, not attached ICs)
2- The unit can reroll their charge distance.

The faq says the wulfen can still use their rule, and that the IC does not benefit.

So yes the Wulfen can still use bounding lope, but the IC cannot. If the IC is attached to the unit and the unit runs, the IC ran and the unit cannot assault. This doesn't mean the Wulfen didn't get to use their rule, they did but they are stuck in an unit that cannot.

You cannot assault with part of an unit, and not the rest. Just like you cannot go to ground with part of an unit or not the rest, or run with part of an unit but not the rest. And this faq answer does not clarify that there is an exception here.

If the unit assaults after not running, the wulfen have permission to re-roll their charge range, which the IC cannot do. The wulfen can move the different distance but must maintain coherency. That is what the faq answer RAW allows.

The part where it states the IC does not benefit is what prevents the unit from declaring an assault. The IC is part of the unit and cannot declare an assault if it runs. You cannot declare an assault with part of an unit, just as you cannot declare to run with part of an unit, or declare to go to ground with only part of an unit. So yes the unit still get to use bounding lope, they just cannot run and assault because the FAQ specifically states the IC does not get to benefit. Rerolling the charge distance on an allowed assault is still using bounding lope.

In no words does the faq say the unit can still run and charge.

Well, I appreciate that this is your interpretation. I disagree.

Ok let me put it simply. The faq says the IC cannot run and declare an assault because it states the IC does not benefit from the rule in plain words.

If the IC declares an assault you have allowed the IC to run and assault which the FAQ says you cannot do.

As you cannot declare an assault with part of an unit, you cannot declare an assault after running.

blaktoof wrote:
Ok let me put it simply. The faq says the IC cannot run and declare an assault because it states the IC does not benefit from the rule in plain words.

If the IC declares an assault you have allowed the IC to run and assault which the FAQ says you cannot do.

As you cannot declare an assault with part of an unit, you cannot declare an assault after running.

Except that these FAQ have given us multiple examples of units moving models in the unit individually - there is even an example given for a unit of mixed bike, infantry, and jump infantry all using their different moves in the shooting phase to run, turboboost, etc.

So if the IC runs, I agree with you that the unit would "probably" not be able to charge (since the IC is not allowed to use Bounding Lope), but if the IC does not run and the Wulfen do run, then the Wulfen would not be prevented from using Bounding Lope as long as they maintain coherency with the IC (again, this is my interpretation and I understand that it differs from yours so I am not trying to convince you - just explain my thinking).

 NightHowler wrote:

blaktoof wrote:
Ok let me put it simply. The faq says the IC cannot run and declare an assault because it states the IC does not benefit from the rule in plain words.

If the IC declares an assault you have allowed the IC to run and assault which the FAQ says you cannot do.

As you cannot declare an assault with part of an unit, you cannot declare an assault after running.

Except that these FAQ have given us multiple examples of units moving models in the unit individually - there is even an example given for a unit of mixed bike, infantry, and jump infantry all using their different moves in the shooting phase to run, turboboost, etc.

So if the IC runs, I agree with you that the unit would "probably" not be able to charge (since the IC is not allowed to use Bounding Lope), but if the IC does not run and the Wulfen do run, then the Wulfen would not be prevented from using Bounding Lope as long as they maintain coherency with the IC (again, this is my interpretation and I understand that it differs from yours so I am not trying to convince you - just explain my thinking).

He doesn't understand that the entire unit doesn't have to do the same thing, or just doesn't want to believe it.

 NightHowler wrote:
Except that these FAQ have given us multiple examples of units moving models in the unit individually - there is even an example given for a unit of mixed bike, infantry, and jump infantry all using their different moves in the shooting phase to run, turboboost, etc.

So if the IC runs, I agree with you that the unit would "probably" not be able to charge (since the IC is not allowed to use Bounding Lope), but if the IC does not run and the Wulfen do run, then the Wulfen would not be prevented from using Bounding Lope as long as they maintain coherency with the IC (again, this is my interpretation and I understand that it differs from yours so I am not trying to convince you - just explain my thinking).

The biggest problem is that the unit Runs, not the models. If the unit Runs, and the IC doesn't move, then the unit has still Run, and the IC is still considered to have Run.

But hey, those drunken monkeys will allow the weirdest stuff and disallow the weirdest stuff all the while ignoring what has been written, so who cares?

Except a unit doesn't run anymore, because a mixes bike and infantry unit can still "run", despite bikes jot being able to do so.

Drunken monkeys is about right!

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Except a unit doesn't run anymore, because a mixes bike and infantry unit can still "run", despite bikes jot being able to do so.

Drunken monkeys is about right!

Show the errata that replaces "In their Shooting phase, units may choose to Run instead of firing.", and "The unit Ran in the Shooting phase." condition for declaring a Charge before making that claim.

The Draft FAQ has answered that the models in a mixed unit all use their respective rules for moving, Running, Turbo-boosting, and charging while maintaining squad coherency.

col_impact wrote:
The Draft FAQ has answered that the models in a mixed unit all use their respective rules for moving, Running, Turbo-boosting, and charging while maintaining squad coherency.

1) Not an errata, just a House Rule.

2) It only addresses what the models can do and doesn't change what the UNIT is doing.

The unit still operates under the concepts which are applied, i.e. the Run (never mind what is the fine details are, apparently). The unit Runs, cancelling any normal Shooting action, then the models move. If the unit Runs, the unit cannot normally declare a Charge.

Admittedly, the rule we are talking about is about a unit specifically granted the ability to Charge after Running. For some reason, the IC is part of the unit while Running, but not part of the unit's benefit when it goes to try and Charge...

If the Draft FAQ is considered to be in effect (depends on the play environment) then the answer is that the models of the mixed unit move individually whether moving, running, or charging. They only need to stay in coherence.

1) just an official rules update (by definition) just not an alteration to the written rule in the book
2) If a jump pack, singular, can count for the reroll, it is clear the unit vs model distinction you are making can no longer apply. Yes, I always made that distinciton myslef in the past - however drunken monkeys it is!

Bikes can't run, they are given permitssiin to turboboost when the unit declares run because that is their movement mode if they move during the shooting phase. Bikes are not given permission to not move and count as firing at full ballistic skill.

Further in this case an ironpriest on a twolf has access to run just as wulfen do, so will run if the unit declares run even if you opt to move 0.

The faq answers regards models moving as their movement modes allow when they are moved, the whole unit is still moving and no model is stated as being able to count as not moving , even if it has a different movement modes.

Further it states if the unit runs, note it's still saying the unit runs, then no models in the unit can shoot.

This faq still shows RAW an ironpriest on twolf, bike, foot, whatever count as running if attached to wulfen that run.

So the rule they can explicitly still use, they can't use? Illogic at its best.

nosferatu1001 wrote:
So the rule they can explicitly still use, they can't use? Illogic at its best.

You are making the assumption that the faq allows them to benefit from all parts of bounding pope, when such is not stated.

It specifies the Eileen can still use bounding lope but the attached IC cannot benefit.

If the unit runs, the IC also runs as per the draft faq and brb states for movement. If the IC is running it cannot declare assault as per the brb and the we faq which explicitly states the ic does not benefit. Therefore the only part of bounding pope which the wulfen can benefit from with an attached IC is the reroll assault movement when the whole unit can assault.

The faq answer is poorly written, because it does not addresses the unit running and then assaulting directly, and the indirect addressing clearly states the IC does not benefit. You cannot declare a charge with part of an unit so the unit may not charge. Illogical or not that is the current RAW per the faq and brb.