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So I'm thinking I'd like to start using Sternguard with my Blood Angels. I'd like to take a 10-man unit in a Drop-pod then Combat Squad them to focus fire onto 2 separate units once they arrive.

I am just wondering what the best, most efficient (and not redundant) loadouts are... the other issue is this unit is CRAZY expensive!

I play against mostly Eldar (yes Wraithknights), Space Marines, Forgeworld Chaos/CSM (yes artillery), Dark Angels, some Admech, some IG, an occasional mix of everything else too.

For cost sake I was thinking:
- Sergeant and 4 veterans with bolters (relying on special ammo) :: Focus fire on enemy unit A
- 5 veterans with Combi-????, or 3 Combi and 2 Special :: Focus fire on enemy unit B

What would be the best counter-point Combi-weapon to the special ammo?

Or should I just go all-in with the Combi weapons for all 10 guys and just do 2 different kinds of Combi?
- Sergeant and 4 veterans with Combi-Grav
- 5 veterans with Combi-Melta/Plas/Flam

Thoughts? ...is the entire concept just too expensive?

IMHO the whole concept is too expensive. That said... *

If you go with melta, take 4-5. Probably 5 if you are going to combat squad. If you crunch the numbers, that’s about what you need to reliably pop a tank.

For the second half, I’d probably go with 2xHF and 3 basic guys. In general I enjoy HFs, especially in pods. They also tend to synergize well with special ammo. Basic guys are to help keep the points down. You could also go c-plas/grav on this half. The basic idea is the melta hlf can crack open any sort of transport, and this half can bake the contents. Or a tank and nearby infantry unit.

Most of the time I field sternguard, it’s 10 men, 8 basic, 2xHFs in a pod.

* This is from a vanilla POV, YMMV as a BA.

I'd go ten combi-melta. There's no kill like overkill. IKs and Titans will hate you.

Thanks guys... hmm yeah seems like combi-melta is the way to go, so skip the regular meltaguns then?

While I LOVE heavy-flamers, in a Blood Angel list infantry are the least of my worries - it's opening cans and killing wraithknights etc that give me trouble.

The problem with normal melta guns is what are they doing after you click off the combis? Shooting 2 melta guns at something is not a reliable form of AV. You may get lucky, especially if you have some buffs a/o other mitigating circumstances. But for the most part, once you blow your alpha strike, you want to be special ammoing things for the rest of the game.

There are only a few places I can get HFs as an Ultramarine, so I take them on my sternguard. BA have more options.

You guys make a lot of sense... I think 10 combi-meltas... it's one expensive unit though ugh.

Yeah, but I can tell you from using a 10 X combi-melta squad coming from a Stormraven how nice they are. Smoking two vehicles with 95% reliability is well worth the points. Or one really big thing. It kills a Warhound very reliably if the shields have been taken down.

10 melta guns is the way to go. It's the only option that can reliably destroy 2 targets because vehicles die easier than everything else. Plus it also removes a titan practically every-time it drops so. It's actually a very worth the points investment in larger games if you are expected some sort of imperial titan.

I like the 4 combi-meltas/2 heavy flamers tactics, you can pop a transport and then burn the occupants on the turn you drop in. Has been very effective for me in the past. Many more combi meltas just makes the unit too expensive imo

You don't need the heavy flamers as much on a unit with access to ignore cover ammo AND AP 4 ammo.

Can they take Combi-Gravs? If not then either Combi Plasma or Combi Melta depending on what you need roasted. They have an Ignores-cover Specialist round so flamers of any kind is wasted on them. They're also not Vanguards, so weapon upgrades are equally worthless.

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:
Can they take Combi-Gravs? If not then either Combi Plasma or Combi Melta depending on what you need roasted. They have an Ignores-cover Specialist round so flamers of any kind is wasted on them. They're also not Vanguards, so weapon upgrades are equally worthless.

Yeah they can take combi-grav. The combi-melta argument is hard to dismiss but I do wonder if grav is better against wraithknights at least, which I do face.

It is, but you are still losing a shot. You aren't super likely to kill the wk with 20 regular grav shots.

I thought grav had more shots than melta? ...as an old school BA player I have no grav in my army at all so far.

Normal meltaguns are fine. Even if you shoot some Space Marines with it, it's still a S8 AP1 Shot.

On the other hand, having two meltaguns hanging around in the enemy deployment zone if they survive after you pop off the combis is still capable of doing damage, and isn't ignorable like specialist ammo is. And if you do get a second round into a tank, or one shot some Marine character, all the better.

Grav get 2 Shots at 9" when they come down out of a pod, so you'd get 20 for a full ten man unit - 22 if you included two grav cannons.

 Gunzhard wrote:
I thought grav had more shots than melta? ...as an old school BA player I have no grav in my army at all so far.

Normal grav is salvo 2/3. So when you step out of the pod for the alpha strike, you only get two shots. And I would not attempt to hold your fire so you can try for 3 the next turn. You would probably loose so many guys you would end up with less shots anyway.

 Gunzhard wrote:
I thought grav had more shots than melta? ...as an old school BA player I have no grav in my army at all so far.

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I meant losing a shot vs having grav on a relentless platform like a bike.

I like melta a lot because it is a reliable solution to vehicles, walkers, and SHW and SHV. MCs and GMCs are better models, but we have no reliable solutions against those as BA. However, grav on a biker platform has some hope of staying at 18" away from melee MCs.

20 gravs should delete a Wraithknight. If I remember it doesn't get modified like Poison and whatnot does right?

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:
20 gravs should delete a Wraithknight. If I remember it doesn't get modified like Poison and whatnot does right?

Hits on 3s, Wounds on 3s. Is probably a Sword Knight so has 5++ and FNP against it so 20 grav shots only deal 4 wounds to it (assuming it isn't also buffed in some other way)

I was looking in to running a 5 man team, each with Combi-plays as, with a sang priest in a pod. Ten plasma shots after they scream out of the sky, then they have their special ammunition, and become pretty nasty in close combat

I'm no expert on sternguard, not too experienced with them, but when I have used them (Vanilla SM variant), I just went with the special ammo and nothing else. They are already pretty costly, and other units can do the melta/grav thing better imo.

 Bryan01 wrote:
I'm no expert on sternguard, not too experienced with them, but when I have used them (Vanilla SM variant), I just went with the special ammo and nothing else. They are already pretty costly, and other units can do the melta/grav thing better imo.

I've never used Sternguard or any sort of Grav weapon... they just never felt very Blood Angel to me. But we don't otherwise have much access to Grav, except on Bikes, which also don't feel very Blood Angel to me but whatever haha.

We CAN do Melta fairly well with Assault marines though. Still, that never seems to be enough when I'm facing Forgeworld Chaos with Sicaran and artillery etc, and Eldar wraithknights.

Bikes are fast and relentless; they sound pretty BA to me!

Martel732 wrote:
Bikes are fast and relentless; they sound pretty BA to me!

No doubt... I guess I've just never used them. I have bikes, still in boxes from like 2nd or 3rd edition haha. When they first released the Scout Bike box you used to get full SM Bike sprue, plus the additional Scout rider you could do make both out of one box if you didn't glue the rider on. I have a Sanguinary Priest on a bike that hasn't seen a battle since 5th edition... perhaps it's time to get on those bikes!

I know you mentioned BA because you play them, but for those doing the math, saying 5 combi meltas is better as that's almost guarantee'd to kill a tank, how about in a Salamanders army led by Vulkan? Still 5?

That's probably closer to 4. Hit rate 66% vs 89%.

So you're saying it would be worth it to take the two heavy flamers with 8 combi meltas over 10 combis?

Personally, I wouldn't, because with 10, you can combat squad to 5 and 5 and melt two vehicles reliably. Or shoot the same target and melt one titan.

If planning on CSing, I’d cap at 5 c-meltas. One half to pop tanks, the other infantry. No use for the extra c-meltas in the HF side.

BA can put heavy flamers in their tac squads. Their sternguards don't need them.