Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hey so I was about to power bomb my buddy through the table the other night over my vendetta gunship and its firing arc.

The gunship has 2 sets of lascannons under the wings which get the 45 degree firing arc, however the main issue was with the one that's mounted to the hull of the vendetta, next to the cockpit. He would claim that the actual hull of the gunship would be blocking LOS from the cannons even though they were in the 45 degree arc.

My understanding is that you can shoot through friendly units, would the unit that is firing count the same? Or can the Vendetta only shoot all three of its lascannons at something it is facing head on?

Thanks

This is a hotly argued point.

Some people are of the opinion the "models in your own unit don't block LOS" means that a vehicle's hull doesn't block it's own weapons.

Other people point to the arc-of-sight diagrams for sponsons as indicating that the hull does block LoS for a vehicles own weapons.

Personally, I'm in the second camp.

The significant rule section for the first argument is pg 15 of the BRB heading "Own Unit" which states:

Firing models can always draw line of sight through members of their own unit just as if they were not there.

Which puts the 'no' vote in the tenuous position of arguing a firing model is not part of its own unit. I haven't heard the counter argument, so it may be just as ridiculous.

My opinion - the models are rarely designed from a gameplay perspective, so arguing that the placement of a weapon on the model that is blocked by its own hull due to how the model was designed is a bit of a dog act. Also given that the only 'official' Vendetta model is built from Forgeworld parts, which encourages conversions (mine has lascannons from Russ kits either side of the cockpit which looks way cooler imo) further muddying the waters.

The intent of Hull Mounted weapons seems to be abstracted that the vehicle can 'shift' side to side slightly to allow the weapon to have its 45 degree firing arc. Sometimes that's modelled by a physically movable part, like on the Leman Russ Hull Mounted weapon, but on other vehicles like Chimeras the Hull gun is fixed in place.

I appreciate the feedback, those are pretty good points on both sides. Its looking like ill just model the 3rd lascannon so its reflected on both sides of the hull or maybe ill convert it to be at the bottom of the hull like the minigun on an A10 Warthog, that way it can definetly hit what's in front of it. I always thought it was kinda cool to have to convert your models for stuff that GW doesnt include, just a shame it can cloud up the rules like this.

out of curiosity can squadrons shoot through their own buddies?

peirceg wrote:
out of curiosity can squadrons shoot through their own buddies?

Yep, as Malamis pointed out above

Rock The 40K wrote:

peirceg wrote:
out of curiosity can squadrons shoot through their own buddies?

Yep, as Malamis pointed out above

Actually since the discussion is about vehicle squadrons you want 'Squadrons in the Shooting Phase' (pg. 79, main rulebook). It basically says the same thing, but it does cover the situation at hand.

Regarding the 'shooting through ones own hull' if one looks at the diagrams in the firing arcs portion of the rule book, one can see that a pintle mounted weapon can indeed shoot through its own hull. Specifically, if there is a model against the hull of the rhino, the pintle mounted storm bolted would be able to target and draw line of site to that model even if it can not have Los actually drawn to it, according to the graphics, which are the only guidance.

That example doesn't take the ability to elevate or depress the gun barrel into account. It shows the pintle mounted weapon having a 360 arc on a horizontal plane because it sits on top of the vehicle. The written rules do not give a vehicle permission to draw line of sight through itself, so if you can't draw an unobstructed line of sight to the target you can't shoot at it..