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Thinking of buying a Battlewagon or the Deff Rolla Battlewagon, but the question is . . Is the Deff Rolla Battlewagon just the same model as the Battlewagon with the roller upgrage or are they completely two different models?

Same. DeffRolla is just an upgrade sprue.

Right, thank you!

and the Deff Rolla went from an amazing upgrade, taken on every BW from 4th edition to 6th edition, to a garbage upgrade that is so useless it doesn't get used EVER in 7th edition.

Old Rolla Rules were D6 S10 hits against your target, and then D6 more hits if they chose to Death or Glory, and now the rule is D3 S10 hits ONLY if the unit Death or Glories.

If your not familiar with Death or Glory (most aren't because nobody does it these days) if you run over an enemy unit with a vehicle they have 2 options, Death or glory or walk out of the way. Death or glory allows the target unit to select a single model that can shoot/CC attack your vehicle for free. It gets 1 chance to disable the vehicle with auto hits, if it fails the model is destroyed. Regardless of which option you choose the unit getting run over is never destroyed by the vehicle, it just gets move to the sides of it, which usually leaves the vehicle open to assault the next turn......fething stupid.

Yeah, what semper said. As much as I loved deff rollas, the new ones are unusable. They are one of many never-take wargear options in the ork codex.

Love the way the look, too.

What really irks me is that not only did the battlewagon go up by 20 points in 7th, but also the deffrolla was basically its only purpose after dropping off its cargo. I hardly ever use them anymore for though they are a good way of getting your troops into assault, they are useless once they are no longer transporting. Their guns are garbage, except for the killkannon, which reduces your transport cap.

Their guns weren't any better before, but a deffrolla made them a credible threat to a lot of targets. Now, they're 110 point boxes.

I honestly just take smaller squads, use more trukks, and don't care when they get blown up. Taking battlewagons now is a rarity for me.

if you go point for point though a trukk is 35(with Ram) and a BW is about 135pts with 4 Big shootaz/Rokkitz and a ram. So you could take 4 Trukkz for the price of 1 Battlewagon. The difference is that an army has to have some seriously good fire power to kill the BW and make it explode, while the Trukk gets blown up by S5 weapons.

I still use BW as Giant 120pt transports for large squads of boyz because My experience is that Trukkz just blow up to often and kill the boyz inside.

For the price of that BW it should have more armor or have weapons already included, and honestly the Kill Kannon isn't that good. Range 24 S7 AP3 large blast on a BS2 model isn't that good, it misses FAR to often.