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Hey guys,

What daemon lists do best against Tau or Eldar? This is in an unmodified rules environment, not ITC (though I usually play ITC) meaning ranged D weapons are not modified, nor are re-rollable saves/invis etc.

Against Tau, I'm meaning against a double stormsurge + riptide wing + markerlight drone net type list. Basically where Nurgle daemons wont get cover saves and your bloodthirster/chaos knight will get one shot turn 1 to the 8 S missiles. My ideas were screamerstar to tie up the SS from turn 2 onwards (superheavies cant shoot out of combat right?) since the 2++ re-rollable means on stomps of 6 will remove them, and even with ~8 stomps per game turn that still means several turns before the screamers die, as the stomp can in theory only hit 2 screamers at a time. Maybe the masque to reduce their BS by -5? But that masque gonna get shot off the board the same turn so it will only last for 1 turn. Anything else? Invis maybe with be'lakor? but they have so much ignores cover + skyfire that Be'lakor will have to spend half the game running off the board the same turn he comes in so he doesnt get blown out the sky. Help!

Against Eldar, I'm meaning the typical 2 aspect hosts of warp spiders (30+ BS5 spiders) 5 squads of scatbikes, a wraithknight, and 2 farseers or something along those lines. My only ideas against that much MSU would be be'lakor for shrouding since Eldar have little ignores cover, and as much Psychic Shriek as possible (scatbikes are LD8). Maybe Khorne dog star to multi assault warp spiders, and/or screamerstar to do the same. I dont think DThirster or chaos knight would be as effective... WKs are init 5, but if Invis/Grimmed I guess the DThirster/Knight would easily beat the WK.

At a loss to what types of lists to run, I run out of points too quickly. Warpflame hosts with lost of exalted flamers help against MSU especially BatCo, and allows for more warpstorm table shenanigans.

Thoughts/advice? What works against Eldar/Tau? (also expecting lots of BatCo's and the usual of course).

Infernal tetrad vs the eldar list. Warp spiders will have a hard time to do anything vs the daemon princes and the nurgle prince can handle the wraitknight with the balesword. Also you still have access to shriek. Add the tallyband with doomsday bell on the herald to reduce the leadership of the enemy and you are ready to go against this eldar list.

Using my current list (Tzeentch 3 FMC circus with a daemon factory).

I would keep the big daemons in the sky and flickering fire (or other change) the jetbikes etc and summon flamers and Slaanesh on the ground. I would try to work around the Wraith knight.

If the Tau, has MC's assault them, it keeps my FMC's from getting shot and stops his MC's shooting. Stay out of range of as much of the army as possible while concentrating on force in one place. Prioritize markerlights.

For both, play the scenario above anything else.

I'm a tau player and I have issues with kryos, and a screener star with 2 heralds one with the book that boosts invul.

If you fail the book you have the kudos reroll to try again.

I stand by idea that daemonettes are by far the best unit for killing Tau and Eldar monsterous creatures, their initiative and formation buffs means they always strike first and often at a higher WS, they are cheap as chips and a unit on the charge can deal 30 attacks with rending! Meaning that monstrous creature wont last more than 2 turns against even just 1 unit of them. They are also fast due to fleet and the slanneshi rules, also being able to re-roll charge is nice too.

It is very satisfying seeing 90 points of daemonettes take out a stormsurge or wraithknight, and slanneshi heralds rolling on telepathy ensure they get into combat! Also, if you want to kill them in 1 turn add a loci of beguilement