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I'm looking at the great waaagh!-band detachment from the new Ghazghkull 2016 Update. It seems to me like the only way to build orks since you get a Waaagh! every turn and you have so many options for deployment. The "so many options" part is what i am struggling with. From my understanding all I NEED to take is either the Waaagh!-band or the Goff Killmob. Is this correct or do i need to take a command formation as well?

Speaking of the command formations i have a question about both.

First the council of Waaagh!, this formation seems crazy to me. From my understanding you are taking unit of nobz and stacking it with 5 HQ units that cannot leave the unit of Nobz. Is this correct? Why would one choose this formation?

Next the Oddboyz formation. This formation is just a wierdboy, painboy, mek or big mek. My main question about this formation is if i took the Waagh!-band that has 6 units of boys and I game one of those units a Painboy would be fielding the Waagh!-band formation and the Oddboyz formation or just the Waagh!-band formation? Since none of those options are independent characters they have to be fielded with a unit anyways but formations can't share units i'm assuming (not sure).

To me both of these command formations seem pretty useless unless your playing really high point games. Can someone give me a counter to my statement that the great waaagh!-band detachment is the best detachment option for orks?

Sorry for all the questions >.< the only part of the rules that has me genuinely confused is the battle forged rules and detachments and formations. Can a formation also be a combined arms detachment if it includes an hq and 2 troops. I can't find anywhere where it says it couldn't.

I'll try to address these topics in order:

I'm looking at the great waaagh!-band detachment from the new Ghazghkull 2016 Update. It seems to me like the only way to build orks since you get a Waaagh! every turn and you have so many options for deployment. The "so many options" part is what i am struggling with. From my understanding all I NEED to take is either the Waaagh!-band or the Goff Killmob. Is this correct or do i need to take a command formation as well?

Correct, to take a great waaagh! detachment, you must take one core choice, which is the waaagh band or the goff kill mob. IIRC, you can take 1 command choice per core choice.

Speaking of the command formations i have a question about both.

First the council of Waaagh!, this formation seems crazy to me. From my understanding you are taking unit of nobz and stacking it with 5 HQ units that cannot leave the unit of Nobz. Is this correct? Why would one choose this formation?

Pretty much the only reason to take this formation is because the waaaagh! every turn stacks with ghaz's 2+ invuln save when he waaaaghs. So, if you take a waaagh band detachment with the council of the waaagh, ghaz has a permament 2+ invlun. The problem is that doing so is INCREDIBLY expensive, and as I recall I could barely fit it into a 2k game.

Next the Oddboyz formation. This formation is just a wierdboy, painboy, mek or big mek. My main question about this formation is if i took the Waagh!-band that has 6 units of boys and I game one of those units a Painboy would be fielding the Waagh!-band formation and the Oddboyz formation or just the Waagh!-band formation? Since none of those options are independent characters they have to be fielded with a unit anyways but formations can't share units i'm assuming (not sure).

Oddboyz are a command choice, and you can take one per core. So, if you take a goff killmob, you can take one painboy as well. If you wanted two painboyz, you'd have to have another core detachment. Once you've decided to take an oddboy, he follows all the normal independent character rules, so yes, an oddboy can be combined with units from another formation.

To me both of these command formations seem pretty useless unless your playing really high point games. Can someone give me a counter to my statement that the great waaagh!-band detachment is the best detachment option for orks?

In truth, the waaagh band detachment is easily the worst detachment option for orks.

Firstly, the core choices are crazily expensive. I've played a 1500 point game with just the goff killmob formation. That's all I could afford, and I wasn't stretching points. Because the core choices are so expensive, that means you're severely limited in any sort of support options, such as ranged support, independent characters, fast attack, etc.

Then, take into account that there are very few formations with actually useful special rules. The bully boyz and the blitz brigade are the only two that come to mind, and they require 15 meganobz / 5 battlewagons, respectively, which is out of reach of many ork players, especially new ones.

THEN, take into account that the waaaagh! ghaz special rules are TERRIBLE. It actually makes mob rule worse by adding a +2 modifier, makes you hit yourself more from mob rule (D3 + 3 instead of D6), and your characters are forced to issue and accept challenges, which is often times a poor tactical decision.

While I hate to squash a budding warboss's ambitions, the truth is that the great waaagh detachment is a poor choice, as the formations are almost all extremely bloated and have generally very poor rules. The only reason to ever take it is to give ghaz a 2+ invlun, which is fun, but can't be realistically fielded with useful support in a under 3k game.

Sorry for all the questions >.< the only part of the rules that has me genuinely confused is the battle forged rules and detachments and formations. Can a formation also be a combined arms detachment if it includes an hq and 2 troops. I can't find anywhere where it says it couldn't.

A combined arms detachment is the 1 HQ and 2 troops, and you can have as many detachments and formations as you want. So you can absolutely field a great waaagh! detachment and a combined arms detachment in the same game, if you want to.

Answering the last question first - A Formation is a type of Detachment, and a model may only be part of a single Detachment, so if you have a Formation with a HQ and two Troops, it is not a CAD in addition to being the Formation. As such, you are also not limited by the CAD limitations (i.e. a maximum of three Heavy Support).

Oddboyz - Formations and Detachments are all worked out before the game begins. Normally Wierdboys, Painboys and Big Meks are Independent Characters (unless the Formation specifically removes it (I only have the old version of Waaagh Ghaz, so I don't know), and can be attached to units from other detachments without many problems (there are some issues with certain detachment special rules). Little Mek models are slightly different in that their special rule requires them to be attached to a model in the same Detachment.

Council - Yes, it is a whole bunch of stuff all lobbed together. Not all Formations are meant to be competitive, some are just fun or meant for Apocalypse-sized games.

Since I don't have the most current version, I don't actually know the Great Waaaagh!-band Detachment, but I'm going to assume it's just like all the other "Decurion-style" super-detachments:
The page explaining how to take it will list the minimums that you need to take out of Command, Core and Auxiliary. This is normally 1+ Core, 1+ Aux and 0+ Command. If that's the case you don't need to take a choice from Command at all if you don't want to.

Not an ork player so i dont know the formation names that well, but a really nasty one i saw at my shop was a tournament list at 1850

Dude ran 2 formations, 1 was 5 battle wagons with rams on them, the formation gave them all scout so he was like half way up the board already.

The other formation was his HQ and 15 Meka nobs, and then he had 30 boys. Was pretty nasty watching him get all the way up the field on turn 2 and dropping off 30 boys and 15 nobs with his HQ right in front of the enemies.

Granted he lost by victory points but he was going for table, and playing at a 150 point disadvantage against necrons, tau, and SM at the same time so.

And let me expand on the last point a bit. The reverse is true as well, so you can take a combined arms detachment and then you can take any waaagh! ghaz formation as well. You don't get the great waaagh! detachment bonus, but you also don't have to pay for their extremely expensive core choices either.

So, you can bring a normal CAD and cherry pick the useful formations to bring along, like bully boyz.

 Kap'n Krump wrote:
In truth, the waaagh band detachment is easily the worst detachment option for orks.

Firstly, the core choices are crazily expensive. I've played a 1500 point game with just the goff killmob formation. That's all I could afford, and I wasn't stretching points. Because the core choices are so expensive, that means you're severely limited in any sort of support options, such as ranged support, independent characters, fast attack, etc.

Then, take into account that there are very few formations with actually useful special rules. The bully boyz and the blitz brigade are the only two that come to mind, and they require 15 meganobz / 5 battlewagons, respectively, which is out of reach of many ork players, especially new ones.

THEN, take into account that the waaaagh! ghaz special rules are TERRIBLE. It actually makes mob rule worse by adding a +2 modifier, makes you hit yourself more from mob rule (D3 + 3 instead of D6), and your characters are forced to issue and accept challenges, which is often times a poor tactical decision.

While I hate to squash a budding warboss's ambitions, the truth is that the great waaagh detachment is a poor choice, as the formations are almost all extremely bloated and have generally very poor rules. The only reason to ever take it is to give ghaz a 2+ invlun, which is fun, but can't be realistically fielded with useful support in a under 3k game.

Almost immediately after posting this i started to come to that realization. But your insight and advice are very useful! Thanks!

What formations/detachemts do you run? What would you recommend to a new Ork player who has the money for 1000 points of orks?

For formations, I don't run many, generally. About the only one I go with is bully boyz, which I enjoy. Some people like the blitz brigade, but I don't have 5x battlewagons, and I generally don't like battlewagons.

Sometimes I'll play with the goff killmob for lulz.

I often go with the ork horde detachment, only because it gives you an extra HQ slot. But you could just as easily go with 2x CADs for a similar effect.

But for a brand new player, and what to buy, here's my thoughts:

What you need to start, would be boyz and a warboss. You can buy boyz boxes, but try looking on ebay for 'assault on black reach', or 'aobr' boyz, like the below:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/20-Ork-Boyz-Most-On-Sprue-Mob-Lot-Assault-On-Black-Reach-AOBR-Slugga-Choppa-/201594133788?hash=item2eeff25d1c:g:b28AAOSwQaJXTGzG

Then, look for aobr or stormclaw warboss. The AOBR warboss is cheaper, but the stormclaw warboss looks better. It's your call.

In truth, the whole stormclaw ork set isn't a bad buy, especially if you can split it with a space wolf player.

Alternatively, the start collecting box isn't a bad buy either. Gives you more boyz, some nobz, a deff dread, and a painboy.

Nobz aren't great on their own, but are very useful when included in boyz squads. Painboyz are very good. Deff dreads aren't very good honestly, but I LOVE the model.

So, boyz (shoot for about 40), warboss, nobz for the boyz squads. That's going to be your core for just about any army you build, ever.

From there, ~3-6 meganobz in a trukk is pretty good. Lootas are a decent ranged support option, as are tankbustas. The official tankbusta models are expensive, but just give an ork boy a rokkit launcha, glue on grenades or tankbusta bombs, and *boom* you've got a tankbusta.

Mek guns are fantastic, but the model is expensive. You can just make your own out of bits once you get a decent bits collection.






Automatically Appended Next Post:
So, for example, sample 1000 point ork CAD:

Warboss, power klaw, eavy armor, attack squig, bosspole, da finking cap (relic upgrade)- 119

painboy - 50

5x meganobz, trukk with reinforced ram, one with killsaws - 245

2x squads of 20 boyz, including 2x big shootas and a nob with PK and bosspole - 170 each

Deff dread, extra power klaw, grot riggers, skorcha - 105

10 lootas - 140

To field that, you'd need a warboss, two sets of AOBR boyz, the ork start collecting box for nobz, painboy, and deff dread, two boxes of lootas, two boxes of meganobz, and a trukk. A decent start.

Kap n' Krump is dishing out some GREAT advice here. The one thing I will add is that if you want your boyz on foot to get across the board (and get stuck in) ..make them 30 strong. full mobs on foot. 20 if they are in a wagon.

Also.. The green tide is A LOT of fun. Its not in the updated Waagghh! Ghaz update book.. but it is in the first edition and it is legal to play.

Its 1 warboss and 10 mobs of boyz. That also means up to 10 nobz. Nobody on bikes, on a transport of any kind. All on foot. minimum of a 100 boyz (10 mobs x 10 boyz minimum per squad) to a maximum of 300 boyz ALL IN ONE UNIT. The warboss can take the Big bosspole from the supplement relic list and makes them all fearless.

If I run it.. I run with 100 boyz, 5 nobs with klaws, and a warboss with big bosspole, power klaw, eavy armor. Thats 915 points. So if you take another CAD and get a couple Grot squads (objective campers) as a troop tax, you can add a painboy to the green tide so everyone gets FNP and then whatever support units you want (bikes, lootas, tankbustas, meganobs.. etc) Lot of fun. I usually save it for 2000 games where I allocate 1000 to the tide and 1000 for support units.

This is not a unit/strategy that a new player should look to start off running.. just something fun that you can build towards when you have that many boyz. But most of the formations are for fun and arent really competitive. And as discussed above.. sometimes not even practical to take unless your playing a MASSIVE game (3000 points). Stick to bulking out a CAD or two or the Ork horde detachment for the extra HQ and hammer of wrath (meh).

You should start by gathering boyz (which you can convert into tankbustas, lootas, kommandos etc), and some support units that you think are FUN to play or if you LIKE THE MODELS!