Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hey. Here's a real quick breakdown of what I usually take.

Renegade Knights.

2 Renegade Knights.

1 Dual Gatling Cannon
1 RF Battle Cannon

No Carapace upgrades.

Crimson Slaughter.

Level 3 Sorc. in terminator armor. No Mark. Melta bomb. Familiar.

10 naked cultists.

10 naked cultists.

2x Helldrakes. Both with Baleflamer.

Renegades and Heretics.

1 naked command squad
- Tyrant with nurgle covenent

40 zombies

10 mutants

3x Rapier Laser Battery with max crew.




---------------


That's my typical list and it's done okay so far. Next week I'm going to an event that has a really heavy flyer meta. Equally annoying, is that they have many many Knights as well. I'm having a hard time adjusting this list to be able to all-comers against both Knights and Flyers.

This tournament isn't allowing DFTS.

"Ignore all Death From the Skies Detachments, Formations and Wing rules. Any formation not in Death From the Skies is tournament legal."

1. Renegade Knights must stay the highest points total detachment.

2. Is simply adding carapace AA's to both Knights a credible enough threat? It doesn't feel like it.

3. The Helldrakes have typically been my objective grabbers for most ITC missions. With them being spread out over reserve rolls due to no DFTS and losing their wing upgrades, I ponder their usefulness.

4. There is one guy in particular who brings a 4 stormtalon formation a few times and is 90% flyers, even without DFTS. He won't have the 2+ jink but I think he can still start on the board.

Any advice, whether stemming from Renegades Knights / Chaos / or Renegades and Heretics is appreciated.

If the DFtS rules aren't used the Heldrrakes can't be a squadron

Where is the spell familiar/balestar of mannon on the Sorceror?

Why is there a unit of 10 mutants instead of a second unit of zombies?

Why do you have ordnance tyrant when you took 0 barrage weapons to use it for.

 CrownAxe wrote:
If the DFtS rules aren't used the Heldrrakes can't be a squadron

Where is the spell familiar/balestar of mannon on the Sorceror?

Why is there a unit of 10 mutants instead of a second unit of zombies?

Why do you have ordnance tyrant when you took 0 barrage weapons to use it for.

1. Regarding the familiar. He's there, forgot to mention it. I was trying to type a quick and dirty.

2. I can only take one unit of zombies per covenant.

3. I didn't mean ordinance tyrant. I meant Demogouge-warlord.

Original post updated.

 Thunderfrog wrote:

2. I can only take one unit of zombies per covenant.

Thats not how it works. Master of Renegades only works on the Warlord so you don't get it per Covenant. Also Vraks Renegades get to have unlimited Zombie units from their Master of Renegades rule (IA13 can only get 1)

They legality of the various IA books confounds me.


After some re-reading I see what you are talking about. The "Siege of Vracks" book is where zombies and spawn lose the 0-1 rule in regards to master of renegades, as long as the Demo. is my warlord.

Assuming I make the changes to more zombies, anything else?

What's your primary detachment? I think he meant to put 2x1 Helldrake not 2 in a squadron. Since you are not really using heretics to the maximum, I would seriously think about just running CSM with Typhus/Plague Zombies/Plague Marines/Helldrakes/Mutilators or take another Knight too. It does the same without all your confusion.

Just my 2 cents.

Primary for ITC is Renegade Knights.


I considered the CSM Typhus route but honestly it's worse.

Typhus costs a crap ton of points, doesn't have EW, and cultist zombies are worse.

They have a 5+ FNP instead of a 4+ FNP.
I have to take a champ.
They cost more points.
I can horde up to 50 instead of 30.

Plus, taking Renegades is there to give me access to the Rapier Batteries, which I'm a fan of for their cost and usefulness against Knights. For 89 points you get a lot of T7 wounds with a ordnance, twin linked, Str 9 AP 2 shot.

And thats why I asked...

Edit: It cannot be your primary detatchment

What can't?

The Renegade Knights cannot be your primary detatchment. It's under Restrictions for Forsworn Knight Detatchment.

Please understand I mean for ITC scoring.

They consider your primary detachment for scoring purposes wherever you have the most points.


Edit: Both my CSM and R&H forces meet the minimum 2 troops and 1 hq. Either could be primary really, it makes little difference. In previous games where DFTS is allowed, I use the R&H and hope for the reserve rolls trait. In non DFTS games I go with the Crimson Slaughter group.

Bump for ideas please.

If you truely scared of flyers consider renegade hydras. I would rather have the rapiers.