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So awhile back I bought a big lot of 70 or so CSM models to add to the collection but they haven't seen much play since.

Seeing that Traitors Hate is introducing new formations and such, I might not have just wasted my money.

In the lot, I got 30 Khorne Beserkers, and 33 Raptors plus a Jumppack Lord.

So, the idea is to run Maelstrom of War (Khorne + 4-8 squads of Beserkers/ All gain Fleet, +3 to charge, and can assault once in the movement phase)
Spearheaded by Raptor Talon (Lord + 3-5 raptor squads/ Can disorganized charge after deepstriking)

My question, what would be the best way to run these? Optimal squad size/ wargear?
By the end I'm guessing it should cost around 1200pts with upgrades

Zerks are already overcosted and don't have much in the way of dealing extra damage (Chainaxe is nice but the majority of saves you'll be facing are 3+ or invuls) so I would go bare-bones with them. If you are not running Kharn for Maelstrom, then a Juggerlord would probably be the best (wargear for him specifically would be up in the air since Traitor's Hate might have it's own relics list).

For the Raptor Talon, you can probably go to down with upgrades on them; they can basically do ANYTHING after deepstriking, something Chaos hasn't had in a looong time. For Horde Hunting squads of Raptors, I would go with as many flamers as you can buy. Power Weapons and whatnot are inconsequential; for once you probably won't be losing models so you can probably force a ton of saves through sheer number of bodies. For tankbusters, Melta Guns and a bomb on the champ. For all-rounders, Plasma guns and claws on the champ. And ofc for MEQ blending, bring Warp Talons. As with the Maelstrom Lord, the Raptor Lord should take advantage of any relics that would help him deal massive amounts of wounds. Preferably he should be paired with one huge squad of raptors coming in and beat face. Sigil of Corruption is a must.

Brin"e" storming?

sounds salty.

The best way would probably be the black legion formation - hounds of abaddon. It favors raptors quite a lot. Get juggerlord and at least 2 units of raptors - can go for 3, ofc. Than get a min unit of zerkers and a unit of csm that zerkers will proxy. Ideally, you'll need rhinos to screen your units.

I do have an entire CSM army, 3000 points or so. These were an addition that hadn't really been taken off the shelf.

I agree that Zerkers are overcosted, but I think an all out assault force like this might be fun. Raptors do have a lot of flexibility with this, as for marks, I'm thinking maybe jumping to nurgle or slaanesh for them. Most units only have one or so power weapons, so nurgle would help them survive long enough after the charge for support to arrive, on the other hand, slaanesh would let them strike first against marines and with lightning claws on the champion to take out that power weapon it might not be a bad idea. Plus if I run a blob with the lord icon of excess becomes an option. Also, hadn't considered warp talons, hmmm.

Hah, I fixed the spelling error

Hounds of Aboddon doesn't sound too bad for the raptors. Hmm, I just like the flavor of charging out of deepstrike a little more.

Charging turn 2 sounds better than charging out of deepstrike - if you ask me. Deepstrike is just too unreliable.

On the other hand, noone's preventing you from taking both.

I have been toying with the idea of KDK allies or a gore pack- scout up hounds, have Psyker in super killy squad with the lord, swap hounds with psyker and lord's killy unit using the new "soulswitch" power. Then a 1st turn charge with the lord/sorcerer's unit. Lord has dimensional key , so now none of those raptors or warp taloms scatter when they arrive and can charge right away!!

Problem is it really relies on rolling for soulswitch to guarantee activating the dimensional key first turn.

 KhorneontheCobb wrote:
I have been toying with the idea of KDK allies or a gore pack- scout up hounds, have Psyker in super killy squad with the lord, swap hounds with psyker and lord's killy unit using the new "soulswitch" power. Then a 1st turn charge with the lord/sorcerer's unit. Lord has dimensional key , so now none of those raptors or warp taloms scatter when they arrive and can charge right away!!

Problem is it really relies on rolling for soulswitch to guarantee activating the dimensional key first turn.

Now that's a very interesting idea. I like the sound of it. You need sorcabal to ensure the power being rolled.

It also relies on the scouting units to not get killed if you don't get 1-st turn.

Wouldn't that work better with a daemon prince? Ideally the prince gets Electro displacement, but if not, the cabal could also roll it. Fly up the prince and switch. After that the prince can just keep flying around doing it's thing, whereas the hounds would have to run back. Plus the prince could easily switch with other units later on.

Yes it would work better with a daemon Prince- except- now you are REALLY limiting yourself for rolls and hoping for the right power.. Remember this is Codex CSM - your DP must roll 1 power on his god's table... That leaves you with only 2 rolls. You could take 2,level 3, fully kitted out sorcerers that are unmarked (thus foregoing having to roll on those crap tables) for less than what a kitted out level 3 daemon Prince will cost.

With 2 sorcerer's level 3 and unmarked- you get 6 shots at the power, with a level 3 DP, you only get 2. Better chance with unmarked sorcerers. Which is why I'm leaning towards a gorepack.. Few units of scouted hounds- at least 1 should survive somewhere.

You're misunderstanding me. I'm saying to take a prince instead of the gorepack. Fromwhat I understand you're using the gorepacks scout to get the sorcerers into melee.
So instead of the hounds, you'd use the prince. You'd first try to get displacment on the prince and if that doesn't work out, you'd try on the sorcerers. And if it doesn't work out on the prince, that means the prince has a 1 in 5 chance to get fists or the 3++, both of which are massively useful for the prince. Even failing that, the witchfires work well on a FMC

Dang, I'm going to have to take a serious look at these powers...

Ah- I see what you're saying now. Sorry, misinterpreted you there.. that can absolutely work.. And probably better than a Gorepack..

you can always let your opponent take the first turn, so there is a chance the enemy moves something closer to your key holder? A tzeentch character on a jetbike is pretty quick to get into combat.

3 renegade knights with 5 Gatling cannons between them. It's going to be the next big thing.

if you want a pinpoint deepstrike warptalons may be alright? Bit expensive though. Also cant you copy the loyalist trick of swapping with one of your infiltrated units?

We can't infiltrate unless we use special characters that cost about as much as a land raider, but yea we can do that. It's rather expensive though, between the special chars and the sorcerers needed to get the spell in the first place.

No point in infiltrating Warp Talons because they're still garbage. Also you can use Huron instead of Ahriman.