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So yesterday I wanted to start building my list for when my new Sylvaneth units arrive so I can start playing right away.

As a former woodelf player I have a Durthu and some dryads (I think at least 30 of the new ones and several of the older ugly metal ones). I have some treekin (which could proxy Hunters).
I already got myself Allarielle and Drycha. 5 Treerevenants (not going to make spites atm) and 3 Kurnoth Hunters are incoming (I' ll model them as on of each type and just proxy them for whatever weapon type I want to use).

The battletome is still incoming but of course internetz being as it is I know most of what is in there already. So far in AoS I've been playing Wanderers and I've ended up with having low model counts and it doesn't really help with the matched play scenario's, I fear Sylvaneth with it's large models (which are awesome) will trap me in the same way.

My intention is to use the Gnarlwood wargrove as the basis for this first Sylvaneth list since I really like the being heavy on the magic. I just hope the wildwoods will be able to cause enough damage.with all those spells. I've actually only got 1 wood myself but the store has plenty wood (not citadel woods but close enough to proxy them 1-1). Besides that I would LOVE to use my fully painted Allarielle. With her insane healing abilities it would of course be a same not to use as many multiwound models to take benefit from this (but that will give me problems in getting objectives).

That gives me

300 points Treeman Ancient
100 point Branchwych
100 point for 5 Revenants
20 points for household and 80 points for Gnarlwood battalion warscrolls.

Adding Allarielle (620) means I only have 780 left to play with

780 points and I still need 2 battleline units. which means Dryads (2 x 120) so I'd be down to 540.

Now I would prefer to run dryads in 20's and not 10's (which seems suboptimal) which would cost me another 240.
I'd love to use my new hunters (180) they are decent healing targets though if the opponent focusses on them they could kill models before the can be healed but then the Gnarlwood spell could resurrect them.
AND
I'd like to use a Spirit of Durthu. They deal insane damage AND putting on next to Allariele and / or Treeman Ancient means I could potentially disrupt 1st-2nd turn assassinations from shooting/artillery heavy lists with his bodyguard ability and he's got lots of wounds so can be healed before he's killed. Just doing boosted shooting and then regenerating the kost wounds seems fun too.

Of course.. 240+180+400 does not fit into my left over 540 and I'm wondering if maybe Allarielle isn't too much for 2000 points (not in being to powerfull but just not being able to have enough healing targets to being very effective).

An option would be:

Gnarlwood Wargrove (+ Household)

Treeman Ancient
Spirit of Durthu (Oaken armor)
Allarielle
Branchwych

20 dryads
10 dryads
5 revenants

Means I have some bodies to objectives, a tarpit, plenty magic.
However the 10 dryad unit really seems a tax, the lack of hunters saddens me in general and also means less effectiveness of Allarielles heals.

I'd probably make the TMA the general for the command ability (which is not 1/game like Allarielle) and to maek use of the generals command trait which she would not get.
Durthu gets the Oaken armor for added tankiness which helps if he has to save wounds for the other characters.

I'm not quite sure about the other items and spells and items. WIll the TMA be enough to get additional woods? Or should I invest one of the spells in verdant blessing or get the acorns?
Should I get regrowth as one of my spells or just go all in on damaging spells?

I'm also open to suggestions to change the list I just posted.. as I mentioned I'm just not out on that yet.

No opinions?

I don't think Alarielle is necessarily too much for 2K. But if you're set on using her, maybe rethink using the Gnarlroot Wargrove itself? Seems like 200 pts. wrapped up in the battalion that could be used elsewhere. You're paying 200 pts. to heal D3 dryads a turn, basically. You're paying 100 pts for the formations and 100 pts in Revenants that don't have a solid place in the army. If I were using similar models, I might run:

Treelord Ancient (Oaken Armour, Gnarled Warrior, Regrowth)
Alarielle
2x 20 Dryads
2x 3 Kurnoth Hunters

Leaving me 240 pts. Probably grab a branchwych or two.

But, at 2000 pts, I may also play a Heartwood Wargrove:

Heartwood Wargrove
Free Spirits

Spirit of Durthu (Oaken Armour, Gnarled Warrior)
4x 3 Kurnoth Hunters
2x 20 Dryads
Branchwych (Regrowth)

Leaving me 200 pts. to play around with.

Just some things to think about.

Going from where the initial build had 540 left I would do:
Kurnoth w/Bows - 180
Kurnoth w/Bows - 180
Kurnoth w/Bows - 180

...for a strictly competitive build, that is. Simply because Kurnoth Hunters with bows are overpowered for their cost to begin with and become ludicrously resilient with all of the healing you have. As a tip, when assigning allegiance spells remember that every wizards gets the same one or every wizard gets a different one but not a mix of the two (its something I see people miss a lot).

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
As a tip, when assigning allegiance spells remember that every wizards gets the same one or every wizard gets a different one but not a mix of the two (its something I see people miss a lot).

Can you clarify this? And where you're getting this from?

Sure thing, its a short blurb just above the d6 chart for Deepwood spell lore in the battletome (I have it digital so no page number unfortunately).

"Note that each WIZARD in a SYLVANETH army can know a different spell. If you prefer, you can instead generate (pick or roll) one spell that will be known by all your SYLVANETH WIZARDS"

In traditional GW fashion it has an ambiguous use of the word "can" and there is certainly room to interpret it as free selection of spells. However, the rule specifically calls out an alternative of picking a single spell for all wizards, a statement which assumes that multiple wizards could not have the same spell otherwise. Barring a FAQ that clarifies things (which I hope they get around to) I couldn't justify using the allegiance spells freely, rather that no two wizards can have the same spell or all wizards have the same spell.

However, after re-reading the exact wording its more vague than I recalled so I have to caveat my initial statement with "depending on your community's interpretation...".

 NinthMusketeer wrote:

"Note that each WIZARD in a SYLVANETH army can know a different spell. If you prefer, you can instead generate (pick or roll) one spell that will be known by all your SYLVANETH WIZARDS"

In traditional GW fashion it has an ambiguous use of the word "can" and there is certainly room to interpret it as free selection of spells. However, the rule specifically calls out an alternative of picking a single spell for all wizards, a statement which assumes that multiple wizards could not have the same spell otherwise. Barring a FAQ that clarifies things (which I hope they get around to) I couldn't justify using the allegiance spells freely, rather that no two wizards can have the same spell or all wizards have the same spell.

However, after re-reading the exact wording its more vague than I recalled so I have to caveat my initial statement with "depending on your community's interpretation...".

I disagree. I feel that the second sentence is almost superfluous. I feel the second sentence is simply saying, if you don't feel like giving everyone a different spell, you can just generate one and everyone has it. I do not feel the second sentence is being more restrictive, simply more convenient. With GW rulesets being permissive - meaning if you have permission to do something, you can do it - the first sentence gives you permission to do whatever you like with your spell choices.

Edit: If the "can" was a "must", I would agree with you. That said, I understand where your interpretation is coming from.

Well I was thinking about Gnarlwood to get more spells and cast more spells to heal or do damage and try to damage with the wyldwoods too. And you can heal more than just the dryads, you can heal kurnoths too or heal more than once if all wizards know that spell .

I guess with all the healing I don't need a Durthu and I might drop him for the Kurnoths and more dryads. (I only actually have 3 Kurnoths, I could proxy treekin but if I have alternatives I guess I'll avoid that).

Aezeal wrote:
Well I was thinking about Gnarlwood to get more spells and cast more spells to heal or do damage and try to damage with the wyldwoods too. And you can heal more than just the dryads, you can heal kurnoths too or heal more than once if all wizards know that spell .

Right, but in your Gnarlroot Wargrove, you didn't have any hunters. So, you'd only be healing d3 Dryads a turn. In Matched Play, you can only cast one successful cast of a spell per turn, so no matter how many casters you have, only one of them can cast Verdurous Harmony. Is D3 dryads = 200 pts of other, effective units?

Well you get the (not so very good) boni from the household too.
AND you get more benefit from Gnarlwood than just that spell. Casting 2 spells with the branchwych and the ancient means that they can cast a mystic shield and a bolt or other damaging spell (from deepwood lore) in the same turn. If they are in combat in a forest that means triggering the wildwood 2x too. On top of that... it's not 200 points but 100 points.

Aezeal wrote:
Well you get the (not so very good) boni from the household too.
AND you get more benefit from Gnarlwood than just that spell. Casting 2 spells with the branchwych and the ancient means that they can cast a mystic shield and a bolt or other damaging spell (from deepwood lore) in the same turn. If they are in combat in a forest that means triggering the wildwood 2x too. On top of that... it's not 200 points but 100 points.

Well, I gave you my opinion - I think you're trying to fit in too much into one list. I would go with either large creatures (Alarielle, Spirit of Durthu) or Gnarlwood Wargrove, not both. I also think you're focusing on your Wyldwoods too much. Are you just going to sit parked in your Wyldwoods the whole game? What if your objectives are nowhere near your Wyldwoods and you fail to create more? What if the board has a lot of scenery already and it is almost impossible to place any more? What if the enemy has a lot of shooting, like Sigmarites, Skaven or Bonesplitterz? Not only that, but they don't even do enough damage to be really relied upon.

And I say 200 pts because you're paying for 100 pts. worth of Tree Revenants that have very little synergy with the rest of the army. 100 pts for the rules, 100 pts of Tree-Revanant tax. They could go for an objective-grab, but with only 5 of them, they're not going to last long. Again, just my opinion.

The tree-revenants are his first mandatory battleline choice, the dryads are the other two.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
The tree-revenants are his first mandatory battleline choice, the dryads are the other two.

I was simply referring to the tree-revenants and their utility, not the fact that they filled a slot. As a Sylvaneth player, I'd rather have 10 Tree-Revenants, or none at all. If something is requiring me to take Revenants, I'd take 10 revenants, because 5 is nothing more than a 100-pt. tax, in my opinion.

Edit:

All this said, I think that NinthMusketeer's suggestion about adding in 3 units of hunters to your non-Durthu Gnarlwood list is a strong list. However, Dryads lose some survivability at 10 versus 20 and the heals lose some of their utility if units are easily wiped out. But, more hunters are always good.

Yeah if you see the revenants as a tax then it's 200 points. I agree there isn't a real synergy for them but I hope they'll be worth some points as hunters (targets: objective, warmachine or single mage).

I agree I'm trying to put too much into this army but I really want to try the allarielle + gnarlwood combi. I'll be trying to make the Gnarlwood worth more with a combo of the circlet and the reaping on either the wych or the ancient.
Your point about relying too much on the wood is valid too.. but each placement I get means I can place 3 separate bases and they can be snaked as long as they can touch each other. I think I will be able to place a few on the table if needed. I do not think objectives count as terrain so I might be able to place on over or close to objectives. If the opponent can get more than half the objectives I will indeed have a problem so sitting back (in woods) which might be ideal won't always be an option. Real mass shooting will be a possible problem I admit .Between my hunters, allarielle and the revenants I do have some options to do damage in the backfield myself.

I'm thinking the ancient, Allarielle and the Hunters should stick together to syngergize their healing and move in on an objective or a large part of the enemy army. which means the wych will need to stay with the larger units of dryads.. leaving the other dryads and the revenants to try and claim an undefended/least defended objective.

I'm leaning towards getting regrowth on Allarielle.. it gives her more options to heal if she need to go solo into the backfield but it gives me the option to put a damage spell on the ancient (circlet + reaping) which I like.That would leave the lamanteri and throne of vines for the wych to boost her signature spell.


Gnarlwood Wargrove (+ Household) 100

- Treeman Ancient (Gnarled warrior / circlet / reaping & verdurous harmony) 300
- Allarielle (regrowth & verdurous harmony) 100
- Branchwych (Lamenteri / verdurous harmony & throne of vines or verdant blessing) 620

- 20 dryads 240
- 20 dryads 240
- 5 revenants 100
- 3 Kurnoth Hunters (bows) 180

Makes 1880, which basicly only allows more dryads (but that is kinda overkill), revenants (making them less of a tax) OR 3 treekin (which while discontinued might be decent) OR another branchwych/wraith (which would get me both of the spells mentioned above and does synergize well with the gnarlwood wargrove)..

All casters now have the ability to cast 2 damage spells per turn (TLA: reaping and arcane bolt; Wych native spell and bolt; Allarielle native spell and bolt)
Getting more woods isn't very reliable unless I take verdant blessing on the wych and I've lost the high damage of Durthu (so now Allarielle is the only big damage treat so will get targeted more and she's without her bodyguard... but the healing should good to heal some damage and unless they can churn out mortal wounds her save should help.

I do agree with the both of you that just using more hunters will probably be a very good idea and if they perform well I'll probably just buy more of them

When I get more Hunters I could switch 20 dryads and those last 120 points into another 3 hunters and 5 reventants (needed for min baseline) but that would leave me a relatively large hole to the 2K mark.

5 Revenants can be quite useful because of their ability to teleport onto/around the battlefield. They can end near a Wyldwood, but also have the option to come in off the board edge. I have seen Revenants be game-winners even when they didn't hit the table until round 4. 10 dryads is meh, but if they camp in a wood they are reasonably durable between nerfing enemy hit rolls and the normal cover bonus, which means they could hold out a round or two of combat while the enemy gets blasted by mortal wounds from all the spell casting triggers on the wood. And if you have 3 units of Kurnoth hunters w/bows on the board, then just sitting in wyldwoods for the first half of the game is not only viable but advantageous. Even if the enemy has shooting of their own, it isn't going to be as durable and it isn't going to regrow models!

Aezeal wrote:

Gnarlwood Wargrove (+ Household) 100

- Treeman Ancient (Gnarled warrior / circlet / reaping & verdurous harmony) 300
- Allarielle (regrowth & verdurous harmony) 100
- Branchwych (Lamenteri / verdurous harmony & throne of vines or verdant blessing) 620

- 20 dryads 240
- 20 dryads 240
- 5 revenants 100
- 3 Kurnoth Hunters (bows) 180
.

Taking out the Spirit of Durthu here gives you more utility, I think. I think this is a stronger list with more synergy and you fit in almost everything you wanted. And 120 is enough for another Branchwych or a Branchwraith.

NinthMusketeer wrote:5 Revenants can be quite useful because of their ability to teleport onto/around the battlefield. They can end near a Wyldwood, but also have the option to come in off the board edge. I have seen Revenants be game-winners even when they didn't hit the table until round 4. 10 dryads is meh, but if they camp in a wood they are reasonably durable between nerfing enemy hit rolls and the normal cover bonus, which means they could hold out a round or two of combat while the enemy gets blasted by mortal wounds from all the spell casting triggers on the wood. And if you have 3 units of Kurnoth hunters w/bows on the board, then just sitting in wyldwoods for the first half of the game is not only viable but advantageous. Even if the enemy has shooting of their own, it isn't going to be as durable and it isn't going to regrow models!

Well of course if you have 3 units of hunters on the board, sitting back in a wood is ideal, but that wasn't the scenario for the models he has. We obviously play in a different meta because 5 Revenants won't last long on a tabletop around here. I don't disagree that they have their uses, but 5 of them can easily be dealt with. Maybe if your opponent ignores them or you don't reveal them until later in the game, but could the 100 points have been more useful elsewhere? And what's the point of going after dryads in a wood? If they're going to sit in the wood all game, then they're not affecting the game anyway. Again, I think we'll have to agree to disagree on the utility of the Wyldwoods as damage dealers. I think they're great for moving around the board and for protecting your weak units, but when it comes to dishing out damage, I don't rely on them - it's just a perk. I don't rely on anything that only triggers on a 5+ and only does D3 wounds.

The thing is you have to fill that battleline somehow and Sylvaneth got the short end of that stick. Dryads aren't really better, sure in 20 man units they can be decent but now you just spent extra points to make a weak unit become mediocre, as opposed to spending them on a unit that's just good in the first place. Camping dryads in the wood is dependent on strong shooting support, but if models owned is preventing that then running them in 20-man may be the best alternative. Tree-Kin would be another decent way of filling points since they bring along another spell for your cast-happy wizards to use.

If they're going to sit in the wood all game, then they're not affecting the game anyway.



Well the idea would be to place them in a wood within 5" of an objective, which would make them very much part of the game and a reason to go into the woods and fight the dryads (and then magic on them in the woods). Ofc. that is an ideal scenary and might be hard to realize. But I think the chances of having room for a forest (even if it's only 1 base) near one of the objectives in your own zone or near the middle of the board isn't very unrealistic. I might need to get a 2nd wych with the acorn and or verdant growth to make sure I can reliably place a wood though (but I still had those left over points and with the army and 2 formations I'm allowed to kit a 3th hero so that is nice too)

The thing is you have to fill that battleline somehow and Sylvaneth got the short end of that stick. Dryads aren't really better, sure in 20 man units they can be decent but now you just spent extra points to make a weak unit become mediocre, as opposed to spending them on a unit that's just good in the first place. Camping dryads in the wood is dependent on strong shooting support, but if models owned is preventing that then running them in 20-man may be the best alternative. Tree-Kin would be another decent way of filling points since they bring along another spell for your cast-happy wizards to use.


I'm not convinced the dryads are that bad for their points. in a 20 man squad they are 24 points, 24 wounds, up to 48 attacks, they will have a 4+ for quite a while hopefully and roll 3+, 4+ (unless they attacking 2 units but even then it's likely the majority of attacks will be on 1 target).

If the unit is within 3" of a wild wood the enemy gets -1 to hit against them. Which is a pretty good buff. This is actually a rule which can be interpreted in multiple ways: I used to think the whole unit should be in the forest or a 3 " rim around it.. but now I don't think that is actually the case. Even if only 1 dryad is stringed out to be within 3" the unit is within 3" (In another topic it was asked how to deploy large based units within 3 " of the board edge and people said that as long as part of the model was within 3" it was ok...and that would be the same thing for me).
And of course: this army will have 3-4 mages who can heal d3 dryads each each turn (if rolling well).

I think the revenants will have a way harder task to be worth their points since their use is very situational.

It's just going to be 1d3 dryads per round since you can only cast the spell once, and that's instead of getting an entire kurnoth or Tree-Kin model back. 20-strong Dryads aren't really bad for their cost, but they simply aren't good either. It's unlikely all 20 will get to swing since some will probably be out of range, it's similarly unlikely they will be able to fit into a Wildwood to get cover without exacerbating that problem (partly negating the save buff), and at bravery 6 they will be suffering battleshock attrition. Their attack power is similarly meh on top of it. Compare to kurnoth who are going to stand in cover shooting 30" while getting a 3+ save that has rerolls in melee and still fight competently there since they get mortal wound capability, for 33% less points. Again, it's not that dryads are terrible, it's just that bringing them beyond minimums is an inefficient use of points. Similarly I am not suggesting revenants are that great either, just that they aren't really worse than dryads (don't underestimate the power of their 1-per-phase reroll).

However I am speaking from a strictly effectiveness standpoint which doesn't account for how competitive/casual your local scene is or the 'what do I actually own' factor. So feel free to adjust as needed.

I certainly agree with you purely looking at damage etc.

However: revenants or dryads (3 units of them) are mandatory.
And: (as I discovered last time I played a 1000 point game with wanderers and only used "elite" units (min sized = 3 units of waywatchers as my tax and a slightly larger sisters of the watch unit and characters incl Orion).... numbers are important for objective grabbing in the matched play scenarios unless you can table the opponent and assuming that is very very risky.

The trick is that in all but one of the scenarios there must be no enemy models in range to hold an objective, meaning that while capturing may be difficult you can deny your enemy objectives until later in the game when your elite units have evened the field (this is when those revenants pop in). Obviously it's not a perfect strategy but from what I've seen in Matched Play the elite force is often so much more points-efficient that it dominates the field to make even a mediocre strategy become powerful.

Seems my first game will have to be 1500 points.

I'll just use all of my new stuff except her:

1500

Gnarlwood Wargrove (+ Household) 100

- Treeman Ancient (Gnarled warrior / circlet / reaping & verdurous harmony) 300
- Branchwych (Lamenteri / verdurous harmony & throne of vines ) 100
- Branchwych (acorn of ages / Verdurous growth and treesong (or verdant blessing)) 100
- Drycha 280 (squirmlings / regrowth)

- 20 dryads 240
- 5 revenants 100
- 3 Kurnoth Hunters (bows) 180
- 3 treekin

Regrowth on Drycha for self healing to increase survivability once she engages. Not taking the flitterfuries because I might want to hang back a bit and don't want to kill my own army while waiting. Every mage can also heal the treekin.
It's a bit of a balancing act between healing spells, damage and getting more forests on the table.

And.. since it's free and I have one lying around: a balewind vortex. With 2 spells/turn on each of the mages I should be able to cast it easily. Double range for reaping? or the Branchwych spell? Yes please. (or is bringing a vortex a bit too much for what is just a game with someone I don't know?)

Q
1. How would Reaping + circlet + vortex work btw? (3 + 6) x 2 = 18"or (3 x 2) + 6 = 12" (both will hurt though).
2. Can I give a circlet or lamenteri to the 2nd branchwych too? It doesn't say they are unique anywhere right?
3. When using the battle trait for sylvaneth (forest spirits): if I use all the troops as part of the warscroll battalion does that mean I can only decide to put the whole battalion in reserves (or not) or can I still decided to keep individual units in hidden enclaves and others on the table to start with (revenants and drycha don't need to be on the table right away (then flitterfuries might be more viable).

Still wondering about those questions in last post. I wouldn't want to start abusing stuff incorrectly

Drop the vortex. Its free power to the army, and one bit of cheese people thankfully haven't caught on to yet.

Yeah I can't really find the facebook FAQ thingie where it was mentioned anyway. But it's not really something I think I should bring outside of tournaments (which I don't play and where they should be banned or get a point cost).

Anyway: Are the artefacts 1/ army or can I use multiple sliverwood circles?
And must a battalion/wargrove deployed as one drop (which apparently is possible/mandatory) even though this is pretty weird IMHO screwing up the whole placement thing) or can they be deployed like other units?

From the General's Handbook FAQ:

Q: Sometimes it is possible to ‘summon’ pieces of scenery to a battle. As these scenery warscrolls do not have points, can they be summoned in Pitched Battle games?

A: Yes, and they will not cost any reinforcement points.

Is this what you're looking for?

Thanks.. I actually read that FAQ 2x yesterday.. but apparently way to quickly.. but I found it now .

I'll just keep my Vortex ready for some of the nasty armies.