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Hello dakka,

After a break of 40K the game appeals to me once more.

I'd like to start a force of around 500 to 1000 pts, possibly extend it to 1500, but I want it as pocket-sized as possible. Few models, and no giant ones.

Having been away from core rules and codexes, I know not where to start, so I come for advice.
Which race would allow this? And is there a way to make it decent for fun / semi-competitive play?

Cheers,

Butcher'

Define "giant models". Do Daemon Princes fall in that category, or do you mean Knights and equivalents? If daemon princes aren't too bad, you can run a Tetrad list of 4 flying daemon princes, one of each alignment (required), and you'd need the daemon codex and Mark of the Wulfen. It's pretty powerful, but not broken. And you can scale the upgrades up and down to fit what you need, while still keeping low model count.

Otherwise you'd probably be looking at Grey Knights with a terminator heavy army. I don't have the new book though, so details would have to come from others.

A what you want is hero hammer.
And you are in luck, the modern version of hero hammer is winning all the tournaments. Just search for "supper friends" you will like it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The other option is Admech.

Grey Knights are generally considered the lowest model count army that isn't made up of super heavies. Not sure what you would classify as "giant ones" but the biggest model (and best stat wise honestly) for Grey Knights is the Dreadknight. Take Terminators as your troop, librarian for your HQ, and go from there with building your army list.

Tau can pull off low model count armies using Farsight Enclave and taking Crisis Suits as troops. Drones (for a markerlight drone squad) would probably add to the model count a bit but fortunately they are included in most Tau kits and easy to transport given their small size. They have access to things like Riptides and Stormsurges which are quite big but its by no means required to play a semi competitive Tau army.

Orks can also pull off lowish model count.... (Orks are a blob/spam army.... how can they possibly be low model count). This can be done with the Forge World rules for a Dreadmob. This lets you take Deffdreads as troops and Killa Kans mixed in and you have an army of nothing but walkers that are 50 to 100 points a piece. Competitive? Not really but AV spam can catch some off guard. Fun? I think so because its an army of Ork walkers. You can also spam Dreadnoughts with Space Wolves which is low model count.

Im sure there are other low model count armies out there but this is what I could come up with off the top of my head.

I indeed meant no Knight-sized minis (if it is still called minis). I should have been more precise in my initial post, apologies.

Daemon prince size is fine, and I can go up to 20/30 models.

I'll check the Admech and GK.
What about Xenos? Is it a possibility with Tyranid, Necrons, or (Dark) Eldars?


EDIT: Thanks for your answer Vankraken, I'll go check the Tau as well.

BA Flesh Tearers Strike Force FoC
3 Models
1 HQ
1 Troops (A Unique Dreadnought)
1 Fast Attack ( A Drop Pod)

I'd reccomend Grey Knights, or maybe death watch. if you really go wild with the upgrades they can be pretty small model count too

Butcher Joseph wrote:

I can go up to 20/30 models.
What about Xenos?

"Ghazghkull's Bullyboyz"
3 x (Boss Meganob w/ Twin-linked Shoota, Meganob w/ Killsaws, Meganob w/ Killsaws, Meganob w/ Kombi- Skorcha, Meganob w/ Twin-linked Shoota
Battlewagon
Boarding Plank, Reinforced Ram, Rokkit Launcha)

1080 pts.

Butcher Joseph wrote:

What about Xenos? Is it a possibility with Tyranid, Necrons, or (Dark) Eldars?
.

Not sure about 'crons or DE. But nids can do low model count.
Just spam monstrous creatures and fill up troops with ripper swarms or mucolid spores.
2 flyrants with Egrubs, 2 flyrants without egrubs, and 4 mucolid spores for troops. 8 models for 1000 points.
Won't win any objective games, and your opponent will probably want to throttle you.

A lot of MC spam armies are not very fun to play against.

I've been happy with AdMech (specifically Cult Mechanicus) for low model count armies. Couple examples:

Cohort Cybernetica
Tech-Priest w/ Autocaduceus
Kastelan Robot Maniple (stock) - 3 Robots/1 Datasmith
Kastelan Robot Maniple (phospher) - 3 Robots/1 Datasmith
1000 points, 9 models, 1 unit

Battle Congregation
Tech-Priest w/ minor upgrades
Kataphron Breachers x3 (2 Arc/1 Torsion)
Kataphron Destroyers x3 (Grav/Flamer)
Kataphron Destroyers x3 (Grav/Flamer)
Kataphron Destroyers x3 (Grav/Flamer)
Kataphron Destroyers x3 (Grav/Flamer)
1000 points, 16 models, 6 Units (3 units if you run the Destroyers as a single 12-man unit)

You can do it with Imperial Guard:
Pask in a punisher,
a LRBT in his command squad,
2 squads of vets in chimeras
A squad of wyverns
A second squad of tanks
And then finally either another squad of tanks or artillery.

That's about 1500 points for 30 models.

Arson Fire wrote:

Butcher Joseph wrote:

What about Xenos? Is it a possibility with Tyranid, Necrons, or (Dark) Eldars?
.

Not sure about 'crons or DE. But nids can do low model count.
Just spam monstrous creatures and fill up troops with ripper swarms or mucolid spores.
2 flyrants with Egrubs, 2 flyrants without egrubs, and 4 mucolid spores for troops. 8 models for 1000 points.
Won't win any objective games, and your opponent will probably want to throttle you.

koooaei wrote:A lot of MC spam armies are not very fun to play against.

Another thing to consider is that he wants an army that packs small. Things like flyrants might make for a lower model count army, but all the wings and tails take up a large amount of space in the case.

SM infantry packs really well. Bikes are not bad either. Rhinos are your best option if you don’t want to footslog. While pods are nice, they are massive. In my KR case I could fit 8 rhinos in the same space 2 pods take up. And that same space can fit around 100 infantry or 24 bikes.

Librarios conclave is a good way to soak up points, death watch.

Ravenwing area good low model count army with lots of power, and extra sharp cheddar cheese.

I depends how efficient you want your army to be.
To pack small, you need expensive infantry, that can work without transports.

A Grey Knight army without Dreadknights will be few models, and pack small. Not the best, but definitely playable (if you don't take purifiers, everyone has deep strike, so you can work it out without transports).

Militarum Tempestus, possibly with an inquisitor and/or assassin. They're also expensive infantry that can deep strike. You can get a bunch of 5 men units with 2 special weapons and DS all over the place. If you're not too tight on space you can add 1 or 2 Tauroxes.

Death Watch obviously. Just skip the flyer if you don't have the room.

Combinations of the above: an inquisitor, some MT, and either GK or DW. They're all very easy to field as small allied forces, so you can fit many combinations, even at low points. It's fluffy and non game-breaking, so I don't think people would whine about you abusing the ally matrix.

In other words, if you limit the models you want to take based on their size, you will limit what your army can do. Using allies is a good way to overcome this, because each army will bring different strengths in the elite infantry category.

Eldars (of all type) could also do that to some extent, but not as good I think.

I actually really like this idea fresus. That could make a decent inquisitorial team, up for a fluffy theme while meeting my criterias.. Even though they might get corrupted, but that's another story.

Thanks to all of you on the thread for your informations about the current possibilities.

Cheers,

Butcher

The death watch are the new hotness of small elite armies... check them out

I am rather shocked that only a single person has told this guy to look into Tau. Riptides are about Demon prince size (bit bigger maybe?) But more importantly you can take those Crisis suits and Broadsides as troops/heavy/elite so you can have just a handful of models but a full army. From their it isn't to hard to add on to it if you want to expand your hobby. Just be warned though, most people find Eldar/Tau/SM to be Cheese. You might have a problem finding games depending on what kind of meta you live in. Best of luck to you.

I've been playing Grey Knights for a few years and they definitely fit your low-model-count needs. They're very fun, but you'll be shocked by how few units you get at 1500-1850pts. Its low enough that I ultimately allied in some Space Wolves just to get some cheap bodies which could hold other objectives, since every GK model needs to be doing work, to pull their weight in points.

Start with a geared up Libby, a couple Dreadknights, and Termies as your Troop choices. Purifiers in Rhinos will also often do work, especially with some well placed Cleansing Flames (which admittedly worked better when they could borrow Battle-Brother Drop Pods).

Go with the new Deathwatch! You get a LOT of variance, even at low points costs, and it won't take up many models. Wouldn't be surprised if a 1500pt force is almost exactly 30 models.

Deathwatch can be VERY point heavy depending on how you build them. So many different options available to use, even for the small squads.

Maybe look into Kill Team? Extremely low model count and focused almost exclusively on small models. GW has just released update Kill Team rules for 7th edition and they're fun. Heralds of Ruin Kill Team rules (a fan endeavor) are free and aregreat for the next step (more balanced, more nuanced rules).

Dark Eldar can do this very nicely. Do a Corpse Thief Claw formation (5 Talos) and a Grotesquerie (1 Haemonculus and 2 units of Grotesques). You can even put the Grotesques in Raiders to only have 7 models on the field until you disembark.

This force will hit like a brick and has amazing staying power.

5+1+3+3=12 models minimum.

Or for even fewer models, a Corpse Thief Claw (5 Talos) and a Dark Artisan (1 Haemonculus, 1 Talos, 1 Cronos) 8 models, Toughness 7 all around. That would be hard to beat at low model count.

Infernal Tetrad. 4 Daemon Princes, no brakes. For added bonus, bring Be'Lakor for unbound (the Tetrad retains it's rules in Unbound) for Mighty Morphin Daemon Rangers!