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2016/09/19 15:42:06
Subject: So how would you guys go about beating these tournement lists (newb in need of help)
Hey guys I'm entering my first tournament soon and there are some real scary lists there, just wondering how you guys would go about beating them. We've got a bark bark star SMIH deathstar 2 lists with 1 taunar and 2 WK and a 5 WK list. Anyway the missions are
All objectives are placed in the middle of each 6 segments of the board
Maelstrom: Each player starts with 6 cards if they don't like their starting 6 they may swap and redraw 5 cards. Each player discards 1 card at the START of the turn and if they have 0 they draw 2 if they don't they draw 1
Game 1: Relic (worth 6 points) + Maelstrom as described above
Game 2: Kill points + maelstrom
Game 3: 6 objectives each worth 2 points at end of game + maelstrom
As you can see my list is pretty defensive and reliant on pyskers which is why I brought servo skulls to stop infiltrating culexus assassins
Ouch! That's a ridiculous amount of wraithknights and heavy tau suits. Not sure what limits there are in the tournament, but I'd recommend deepstriking/outflanking grav weapons. Skyhammer would be decent, or RW bikers with grav? When there are that many LOWs on the board, no need to play nice!
Fully Painted Armies: 2200pts Orks 1000pts Space Marines 1200pts Tau 2500pts Blood Angels 3500pts Imperial Guard/Renegades and 1700pts Daemons 450pts Imperial Knights
2016/09/20 12:57:28
Subject: So how would you guys go about beating these tournement lists (newb in need of help)
DoomMouse wrote: Ouch! That's a ridiculous amount of wraithknights and heavy tau suits. Not sure what limits there are in the tournament, but I'd recommend deepstriking/outflanking grav weapons. Skyhammer would be decent, or RW bikers with grav? When there are that many LOWs on the board, no need to play nice!
Using alpha strike Grav weaponary is my Tournament style of play, but my local tourny only allows 2 or less LoW type units no matter formation / detachment, with IK being the only exception. I have to say under 1850pts, killing two WK level beings quickly will almost push my list to its limit considering I need points in supporting units to make those Grav Cannons worth it. So this way may not work when dealing with more than 3, as after I killed two, the rest 1 to 3 WK may just move in and table me along with the Scatbikes or Warp Spiders.
No more complaining about the OP-ness. Let's think about how to handle these lists with yours.
First off, in a TAC analysis, your list rely on psychic support to make the three IK work. Basically you need cast Invisibility as many as possible on those IKs, I don't know whether those Big I psyker can access Telepathy or not, but if they can, great. If they can't, you might be better giving up the benefit of Libby Conclave and let each libby cast individually If you get three psykers success casting Invisibility on all three IK, just go forward to chop down any opponent LoW as you like. Aside from Invisibility, the next power you absoutley want would likely be Veil of Time, the one more thing to make your supporting units sustain longer (so in turn your IKs will survive longer) is that you might be putting as many of those psykers into the Crusader squad for their stormshields, Veil of Time just make them re-rollable 3++ save, which makes them almost equally tough as an invisible unit unless you are hit by D-scythes and were closely packed together. These two powers will mean LIFE to you . According to the possible list of your opponents, other powers that might be Shrouding (only one of those lists can have intense long-range ignore cover, so enjoy your 2+ re-reollable cover save if you also have Veil of Time), Endurance, Reforge / Warpmetal armor and Gate of Inifinty / Magnetokenisis / Electrodisplacement / Shifting World Scape (get yourself out of danger and / or into position to capture objectives).
Brief preliminary thought of each match up of you opponent is as follow, just my two cents wish it could somehow help:
1st list (Riptide Wing): Try your best to go first, then Invisibility, annnnnnd Invisibility . Then shoot down all those Marker Drones like no tomorrow, that 19 marker light shots could means one mitigated invisibility for his rending burst cannon Riptide, or one SD missile comes your way at BS3, or a whole lot dead piles of your infantries including your support Librarians. If you are going second, remember to deploy your units out of LoS / range of the marker light.
2nd list (Taunar and Wraith cannon WK): I think this might be the most desperate troublesome matchup for you, due to the Taunar and WK have a ton of SD from afar, and Taunar itself can switch to S8 AP3 ignore cover Apoc barrage 3 Ignore cover mode to snipe out your supporting Libbies with 20-30 hits on your 8-10men units to make you fail some Look out Sir rolls to instant kill them, and you have nowhere to hide from its 120 inch range. Just try get 2 or 3 invisibility, have one cast on the Libbies their own, and the rest on IKs, have at least one of them alive and goes into combat with either cannon WK or Taunar, it bascially spells death for them. Moreover, you will not want to kill them on your charge so you can be save from other enemy units' shooting for one more turn. If you don't have that many Invisibility, always hide your Libby squad out of LoS of the Taunar to gain a slight chance that the Apoc barrage scatter wildly on the first shot and not have that many model under template, especially to not have the center directly over your Libby.
3rd list (Warhost with only 1 WK ): I counted 14 total Mastery Level in terms of psychic capability in the list versus your 13, so there will be intense and interesting psychic duel in this fight, remember to keep at least 10 or more dices for invisibility, or 6 dices if your casting with Tiggy in his conclave. That way you are likely to gain 5 or more success, and statistically it would be very hard for your opponent to deny with his at most 20 warp dices. Furthermore, his list "only" have a WK and WG unit that may reliably threaten your IKs. So it should be safe for you to move on and shoot down those 5 units of Scatbikes and Jetseers first. Just be aware not to come close to the escape hatch of that Bunker.
4th list (WKs ): You will have the upper hand in the psychic phase in this matchup. Cast Invisibility to the IK / IKs who are going into combat VS the Sword and Shield WK and hope for the best. Also you might want those WKs to come to you and hit them one by one. His long range firepower is actually not that strong and his units other than the 5 WKs are relatively slow, so it will let you have some breathing rooms.
Hope it helps. Good luck
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/09/20 15:12:33
2016/09/20 14:57:11
Subject: So how would you guys go about beating these tournement lists (newb in need of help)
Well I'm fairly sure I'm durable enough against these lists (my list is posted above btw) but I've never really played against anything taunar size and I've played against 1 WK a few times but never 5 I'm grateful hes got no d cannons because otherwise that would be really rough for me
2016/09/20 15:06:09
Subject: So how would you guys go about beating these tournement lists (newb in need of help)
Ultramarine skyhammer with the devastator doctrine seemes nesseasry against that many GMC's and to be quite frank Imperial Knights don't seem as threatening in comparison (but you will potentially struggle against the riptide interceptors. you could go for invisable deathstars but it seems there will be an over abundence of stomp...
In every instance I think you'll have a hard time if you try to counter every hard list but maybe you'll do better if you just bring something you think is strong instead?
It's been a damn long time since I used 40k marines but...
Ultramarine Skyhammer with grav, 10 man squads split into combat squads for the doctrine and interceptor survivability, a Culexus assassin (assuming you are not using the draft F&Q throw him in a pod) White scar CAD with tanky captain/ other HQ with the ignores cover relic, centurions or you can run a rush list with white scar bikers and Khan or you can be the friendship ruiner with the Iron hands 2+ armour/ 3+ Invul/3+ FnP captain and then throw in the Conclave on bikes as well? Maybe extreme MSU for the Malestrom/ objective play and ignoring the killing potential of the list?
In any case I don't like the Imperial knights being the core of the force, if the tournament has very few restrictions (as this sounds) I'd expect there to be an incredible amount of D weapons, Psyker stars and anti GMC/SHV units.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/09/20 15:07:27
Hawky wrote: Power Armour's greatest weakness is Newton, the deadliest snfbtch in space.
"You're in the Guard(ians), son!
2016/09/20 16:01:35
Subject: So how would you guys go about beating these tournement lists (newb in need of help)
Torus wrote: Ultramarine skyhammer with the devastator doctrine seemes nesseasry against that many GMC's and to be quite frank Imperial Knights don't seem as threatening in comparison (but you will potentially struggle against the riptide interceptors.
you could go for invisable deathstars but it seems there will be an over abundence of stomp...
In every instance I think you'll have a hard time if you try to counter every hard list but maybe you'll do better if you just bring something you think is strong instead?
It's been a damn long time since I used 40k marines but...
Ultramarine Skyhammer with grav, 10 man squads split into combat squads for the doctrine and interceptor survivability, a Culexus assassin (assuming you are not using the draft F&Q throw him in a pod) White scar CAD with tanky captain/ other HQ with the ignores cover relic, centurions or you can run a rush list with white scar bikers and Khan or you can be the friendship ruiner with the Iron hands 2+ armour/ 3+ Invul/3+ FnP captain and then throw in the Conclave on bikes as well? Maybe extreme MSU for the Malestrom/ objective play and ignoring the killing potential of the list?
In any case I don't like the Imperial knights being the core of the force, if the tournament has very few restrictions (as this sounds) I'd expect there to be an incredible amount of D weapons, Psyker stars and anti GMC/SHV units.
Well the lists are already submitted those are just a few above and whilst the knights seem weak the tripartite lance can make them scary they become a unit meaning invis affects all 3 (3 invis knights are hard to dislodge) we have the other powers going for veil of time to reroll failed saves on the crusaders if i get sanctuary as well then its hard to deal with we basically have all the lists you described above we have white scars battle companies, bike spam, iron hand deathstars, a bark bark star. I feel my list will do fine against deathstars as ETC say stomp results of 6 cant be LOS (I think) as they will just be flailing at the knights if they are invis and stomps don't really care for invis
2016/09/20 16:30:57
Subject: So how would you guys go about beating these tournement lists (newb in need of help)
DoomMouse wrote: Ouch! That's a ridiculous amount of wraithknights and heavy tau suits. Not sure what limits there are in the tournament, but I'd recommend deepstriking/outflanking grav weapons. Skyhammer would be decent, or RW bikers with grav? When there are that many LOWs on the board, no need to play nice!
Using alpha strike Grav weaponary is my Tournament style of play, but my local tourny only allows 2 or less LoW type units no matter formation / detachment, with IK being the only exception. I have to say under 1850pts, killing two WK level beings quickly will almost push my list to its limit considering I need points in supporting units to make those Grav Cannons worth it. So this way may not work when dealing with more than 3, as after I killed two, the rest 1 to 3 WK may just move in and table me along with the Scatbikes or Warp Spiders.
No more complaining about the OP-ness. Let's think about how to handle these lists with yours.
First off, in a TAC analysis, your list rely on psychic support to make the three IK work. Basically you need cast Invisibility as many as possible on those IKs, I don't know whether those Big I psyker can access Telepathy or not, but if they can, great. If they can't, you might be better giving up the benefit of Libby Conclave and let each libby cast individually If you get three psykers success casting Invisibility on all three IK, just go forward to chop down any opponent LoW as you like. Aside from Invisibility, the next power you absoutley want would likely be Veil of Time, the one more thing to make your supporting units sustain longer (so in turn your IKs will survive longer) is that you might be putting as many of those psykers into the Crusader squad for their stormshields, Veil of Time just make them re-rollable 3++ save, which makes them almost equally tough as an invisible unit unless you are hit by D-scythes and were closely packed together. These two powers will mean LIFE to you . According to the possible list of your opponents, other powers that might be Shrouding (only one of those lists can have intense long-range ignore cover, so enjoy your 2+ re-reollable cover save if you also have Veil of Time), Endurance, Reforge / Warpmetal armor and Gate of Inifinty / Magnetokenisis / Electrodisplacement / Shifting World Scape (get yourself out of danger and / or into position to capture objectives).
Thanks also you say about 3 pyskers needing invis this is not the case the tripartite lance gets the knights to become a unit which means one invis will affect all 3 its basically a sort of super heavy deathstar if I face jetbike spam I will roll on technomancy for the +1 to armour values so scatbikes cant hurt the knights but the fact that they are unit means prescience invis etc etc affects all 3
But again thanks for the advice
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/09/20 16:32:04
2016/09/20 17:07:13
Subject: So how would you guys go about beating these tournement lists (newb in need of help)
DoomMouse wrote: Ouch! That's a ridiculous amount of wraithknights and heavy tau suits. Not sure what limits there are in the tournament, but I'd recommend deepstriking/outflanking grav weapons. Skyhammer would be decent, or RW bikers with grav? When there are that many LOWs on the board, no need to play nice!
Using alpha strike Grav weaponary is my Tournament style of play, but my local tourny only allows 2 or less LoW type units no matter formation / detachment, with IK being the only exception. I have to say under 1850pts, killing two WK level beings quickly will almost push my list to its limit considering I need points in supporting units to make those Grav Cannons worth it. So this way may not work when dealing with more than 3, as after I killed two, the rest 1 to 3 WK may just move in and table me along with the Scatbikes or Warp Spiders.
No more complaining about the OP-ness. Let's think about how to handle these lists with yours.
First off, in a TAC analysis, your list rely on psychic support to make the three IK work. Basically you need cast Invisibility as many as possible on those IKs, I don't know whether those Big I psyker can access Telepathy or not, but if they can, great. If they can't, you might be better giving up the benefit of Libby Conclave and let each libby cast individually If you get three psykers success casting Invisibility on all three IK, just go forward to chop down any opponent LoW as you like. Aside from Invisibility, the next power you absoutley want would likely be Veil of Time, the one more thing to make your supporting units sustain longer (so in turn your IKs will survive longer) is that you might be putting as many of those psykers into the Crusader squad for their stormshields, Veil of Time just make them re-rollable 3++ save, which makes them almost equally tough as an invisible unit unless you are hit by D-scythes and were closely packed together. These two powers will mean LIFE to you . According to the possible list of your opponents, other powers that might be Shrouding (only one of those lists can have intense long-range ignore cover, so enjoy your 2+ re-reollable cover save if you also have Veil of Time), Endurance, Reforge / Warpmetal armor and Gate of Inifinty / Magnetokenisis / Electrodisplacement / Shifting World Scape (get yourself out of danger and / or into position to capture objectives).
Thanks also you say about 3 pyskers needing invis this is not the case the tripartite lance gets the knights to become a unit which means one invis will affect all 3 its basically a sort of super heavy deathstar if I face jetbike spam I will roll on technomancy for the +1 to armour values so scatbikes cant hurt the knights but the fact that they are unit means prescience invis etc etc affects all 3
But again thanks for the advice
Ok great then, that's gonna to be easier and now the only concern might be how to keep your psykers alive, anyway, when facing 2nd list, you might still want 2 invisibility (one cast on IKs, one on the Libbies). I think that also gives even more breathing room against the 4th list, since you are likely to gain advantage of 3 VS 1 in combat at a time against sword and sheild WK when those LoW approaches each other, just never forget casting powers.
2016/09/20 17:11:33
Subject: So how would you guys go about beating these tournement lists (newb in need of help)
Chances are ill roll for 2 invis as the inquisition can roll on it too which is of huge help veil + sanc makes the crusaders very difficult to dislodge I've playes this list a few times against another player going and hes using a full slaneesh incursion with 1 bloodthirster he is in ur face turn 2 but the list holds up strong he's taking this list to counter the gargantuans he was expecting
2016/09/20 17:25:26
Subject: So how would you guys go about beating these tournement lists (newb in need of help)
Just to say these aren't my confirmed opponents but some of the lists I wouldn't be sure how to deal with. There are 36? players so there is a bit of everything (except sisters and tyranids)
2016/09/21 13:32:05
Subject: So how would you guys go about beating these tournement lists (newb in need of help)
" I'm sorry, but after 7200 's that has to be the most annoying sign-off ever." 
1000pts Space Marines 
1200pts Tau 
2500pts Blood Angels 
3500pts Imperial Guard/Renegades 
and 1700pts Daemons 
450pts Imperial Knights 
wish it could somehow help:
): You will have the upper hand in the psychic phase in this matchup. Cast Invisibility to the IK / IKs who are going into combat VS the Sword and Shield WK and hope for the best. Also you might want those WKs to come to you and hit them one by one. His long range firepower is actually not that strong and his units other than the 5 WKs are relatively slow, so it will let you have some breathing rooms.
