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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/09/19 22:49:12
Subject: Primers and VOCs
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Been Around the Block
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After a recent health scare, I've become particularly sensitive to the chemicals around us. I requested the MSDS for Citadel's range today, and while the brush-on paints seems pretty fine, Citadel Spray primer is nothing short of terrifying.
I've though tabout the airbrush primer route, but Vallejo's range isn't exactly non-toxic, either, and then would require a varnish, which also, isn't the most non toxic.
Question for the chemists out there... approximately how long would a Spray Primer comprised of Acetone, Xylene, Toluene, Ethylbenzene etc. like Citadel's take to off-gas?
Brush on primer seems impractical, and also would likely require varnish which I'd like to avoid.
tldr, what is the most health conscious/friendly way to prime or what would you recommend?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/09/19 22:58:42
Subject: Primers and VOCs
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Willing Inquisitorial Excruciator
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Just about everything we buy nowadays off gasses. If you want to see some terrifying stuff, just check out how much a carpet, sofa, and mattress offgasses.
The best thing to do with any priming is to do it in either a well ventilated space or outside, upwind. :-)
Even airbrush primers can be dangerous due to the fine particulates, which is why using a mask is recomended, and again, airbrushing into an airbrush vacuum system or outdoors is recommended.
I think, that unless you're doing a boat load of priming, the minimal exposure to the chemicals (if you follow the directions) will not be dangerous.
But to your question, airbrush priming using a compressor is going to be the most "health conscious" because its air and the latex paint you're blowing. The chemicals are only in the paint. Once you add propellants and other stuff from rattle cans, then all bets are off.
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Legio Suturvora 2000 points (painted)
30k Word Bearers 2000 points (in progress)
Daemonhunters 1000 points (painted)
Flesh Tearers 2000+ points (painted) - Balt GT '02 52nd; Balt GT '05 16th
Kabal of the Tortured Soul 2000+ points (painted) - Balt GT '08 85th; Mechanicon '09 12th
Greenwing 1000 points (painted) - Adepticon Team Tourny 2013
"There is rational thought here. It's just swimming through a sea of stupid and is often concealed from view by the waves of irrational conclusions." - Railguns |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/09/19 23:39:02
Subject: Re:Primers and VOCs
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Been Around the Block
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But to your question, airbrush priming using a compressor is going to be the most "health conscious" because its air and the latex paint you're blowing. The chemicals are only in the paint. Once you add propellants and other stuff from rattle cans, then all bets are off.
I would still need to varnish though, would I not? Running something like that through an airbrush would concern me as well much less the fumes off of it. Any airbrush primer would also have a good amount of chemicals though of course I would wear a suitable mask.
That's also to say nothing of the solvents I would need to use no?
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/09/19 23:42:44
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/09/20 00:02:59
Subject: Primers and VOCs
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Fixture of Dakka
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For safety, you should always wear a P95 rated respirator while spraying any sort of paint (that includes spraying your fence, an automobile, priming a model, or using an airbrush); there is ALWAYS overspray that goes in the environment. Also, while wearing a mask, you should either spray outside, in a spray booth, in a fume hood, or airbrush in an airbrush booth that sucks out the overspray. If none of these options are available to you, you can always consider acrylic gesso, which is a brush on application. As long as you don't eat any of the paints, I think the paintbrush versions are pretty safe  They are certainly not skin irritants.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/09/20 00:04:10
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/09/20 00:03:47
Subject: Primers and VOCs
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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You could spray with an extraction booth, they can be bought quite cheaply and fold down the the size of a suitcase. You just need a nearby window.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/09/20 06:45:45
Subject: Primers and VOCs
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Grizzled Space Wolves Great Wolf
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My approach to airbrush and spray can safety is to keep fumes away from myself. I don't use a respirator unless it's something hideously toxic, in which case I'm probably wearing more than just a respirator (remember that your eyes are capable of absorbing chemicals as well). I have enough of a beard that respirators don't seal properly anyway, and I find I can't wear one for more than a few minutes before it becomes so uncomfortable that I'd take up a different hobby But yeah, I use a spray booth with a nice powerful exhaust fan that exhausts outside, I don't bother with filters as they just inhibit the fan. Once I've finished spraying I move the models in to a spare room in my house so they can outgas without polluting the areas I actually live in.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/09/20 06:47:11
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/09/20 15:32:08
Subject: Primers and VOCs
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Wrathful Warlord Titan Commander
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Just spray outside if you worried about VOCs.
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How do you promote your Hobby? - Legoburner "I run some crappy wargaming website " |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/09/20 19:18:47
Subject: Primers and VOCs
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Guardsman with Flashlight
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Well ventilated area and respirator / face mask (just make sure has voc filter and particle filter).
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/09/20 20:11:18
Subject: Re:Primers and VOCs
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Boosting Space Marine Biker
Texas
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Let me put my HSE (Health, Safety, Environment) Manager hat on since I play one in real life when not gaming and hobbying.
Its all about exposure level and individuals level of sensitivity to particular substances. So the proper guidance is if you are sensitized to particular substances or very concerned about the risk of respiratory irritation or illness and you cannot determine the parts per million (PPM) exposure rate over 8 hours so you can compare it to US OHSA's Permissible Exposure Limit (PEL) or ACGIH's threshold limit value (TLV) then the guidance is to assume the highest exposure possible for the amount of product you are using and then select the appropriate respiratory and eye protection.
So for VOC's that would be either non-vented chemical goggles and a half face respirator with replaceable P100 VOC cartridges or a full face respirator with P100 VOC cartridges. Keep in mind that if you have chronic asthma or your respiratory health is already compromised, you may not be healthy enough to wear a respirator and should consult your personal physician before attempting to use one as any respirator is going to interfere with your breathing to some extent.
Oh and to echo an earlier observation, if you have substantial facial hair, the protection that a respirator will offer will be significantly degraded since you can't get a proper seal.
With regards to the omnipresent and often used N95 dust mask, keep in mind it is really designed for particulate protection with only nuisance level protection against gases and vapors.
TLDR:
Use chemical goggles and half face respirator with a VOC cartridge if any doubts about level of exposure or ventilation.
If you are only using spray cans or air brushes very sporadically and in a decently ventilated space, goggles and and N95 dust mask should be sufficient.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/09/20 20:19:04
"Preach the gospel always, If necessary use words." ~ St. Francis of Assisi |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2033/08/21 00:00:41
Subject: Re:Primers and VOCs
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Willing Inquisitorial Excruciator
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Jaiste wrote:But to your question, airbrush priming using a compressor is going to be the most "health conscious" because its air and the latex paint you're blowing. The chemicals are only in the paint. Once you add propellants and other stuff from rattle cans, then all bets are off.
I would still need to varnish though, would I not? Running something like that through an airbrush would concern me as well much less the fumes off of it. Any airbrush primer would also have a good amount of chemicals though of course I would wear a suitable mask.
That's also to say nothing of the solvents I would need to use no?
This is an oft asked question, and if you ask 5 people, you'll get seven answers. I have never varnished any of my models. Now, I'm not painting to Talys' level, but I have attended Grand Tournaments (scored for painting, and done well), and won painting prizes at smaller competitions. I also tend to be rather careful with my models. I don't throw them into a shoe box at the end of the game to carry them. I put them in a citadel or similar carry case, protected on all sides by foam.
I very, very, very rarely have to re-touch up models. Most of my damage occurred in travel to and from tournaments, and from drops onto cement floors. But those are unusual.
With latex paints, I use spray primer rattle cans outside, I airbrush inside (the thinner for the primer would involve solvents), then paint with latex paints, cleaned up with water, and that's it. So my solvent exposure (I hope) is limited.
I also started gaming when I was around 14-15 with DnD and full on lead miniatures, handling, painting (with enamels and turpentine cleanup), and eating chips at the same time. I'm over 45 now, and I seem to be okay.
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Legio Suturvora 2000 points (painted)
30k Word Bearers 2000 points (in progress)
Daemonhunters 1000 points (painted)
Flesh Tearers 2000+ points (painted) - Balt GT '02 52nd; Balt GT '05 16th
Kabal of the Tortured Soul 2000+ points (painted) - Balt GT '08 85th; Mechanicon '09 12th
Greenwing 1000 points (painted) - Adepticon Team Tourny 2013
"There is rational thought here. It's just swimming through a sea of stupid and is often concealed from view by the waves of irrational conclusions." - Railguns |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/09/21 00:09:46
Subject: Primers and VOCs
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Grizzled Space Wolves Great Wolf
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I'm very careful with my models and don't find I need to varnish for protection. Often I'll varnish for the sake of changing the sheen though, eg. using a glossy paint but wanting a matte finish, or for various techniques that require a varnish to protect the previous paint layer.
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