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I havn't read the beast series and I'm not really planning to do so, but I have some questions regarding Guilliman. In his old lore I found him to be an incredible character. With Guilliman being the only primarch horus thought would beat his strategies and hence missleading him. Also with Guilliman keeping the Imperium togheter after the heresy, pretty much going on a second great crusade to fix the Imperium untill his inevitable demise. Also being the only primarch we know is technically alive.

However in recent fluff I've been severly dissapointed, he doesn't at all seem as great as his deeds would have you believe in the HH series. So, I ask you beast readers, how is Guilliman represented after the heresy?

Lion and vulken are still very much alive.

And of course his current fluff is not going to be as good, the dude is in stasis right now.

After the HH he is just a decoration really. Ultramar was an empire on its own, this is because, IMO so take this as you will, Rawbutt Girlymans primary function for the empeor was to be the politician and the primarch of the people.

Also, The Lion is the better strategist its what he is known for is lore

What Guilliman is known for isn't so much his strategies so much as his logistics, he can conquer a planet, get its people setup for becoming part of the Imperium, and have it ready and willing to fight weeks afterwords compared to other Primarchs, he's actually one of the top strategists but he has to ensure so much at once.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
What Guilliman is known for isn't so much his strategies so much as his logistics, he can conquer a planet, get its people setup for becoming part of the Imperium, and have it ready and willing to fight weeks afterwords compared to other Primarchs, he's actually one of the top strategists but he has to ensure so much at once.

This is a better way to look at it, he is the manager of the primarch, man can run a death world into a hive world while reading the paper. He is a master of logistics.

Lion is the strategist, able to take a fortress with a paper clip and a rubber band.

Guliman is the manager.
He ran a mini empire in its own right and through good planning maintained one of the largest legions.

The lion. Russ, and Dorn never where quite the same level of savant he was at that.

Vulkan was a excellent smith, and more caring primarch at times.

There the main ones that could return.
Kahn... He is lost in webway... Still.

Ferrus is long gone and so is sangy.

Dorn is duty, the shield.

Russ is the sword.

Exactly so. Gulliman's achievement is (initially) creating Ultramar, and subsequently acting as Lord Commander - his position as first head of the council of High Lords post the heresy is mentioned in the Beast Arises series a couple of times (as the Beast Arises' most interesting bits are set in the Senatorum and surrounding political shennanigans).

With Guilliman being the only primarch horus thought would beat his strategies and hence missleading him.

Gulliman was a superb stratagist (in fairness most of them were) but the most important reason - dating back before the HH books were a thing - was the fact that the Ultramarines was the single largest legion, and it wasn't on Horus' side.

I believe even in the modern 40k timeline the Ultima Segmentum is still one of the best places to live in the Imperium. That's quite an impressive legacy considering a few millennia have passed.

Depends on where in the region. Macragge has wild Hormagaunts, Calth's surface is lethally radioactive and Prandium is a dead husk.....

I don't like the "Imperium Secundus" storyline, because it makes very little sense.

The original iterations of the Heresy storyline (up through Collected Visions) presented a coherent narrative. Horus knew the Ultramarines were too large and Guilliman was uncorruptible. So he sacrificed half of the Word Bearers to ensure that the Ultramarines couldn't interfere at Terra, and he wouldn't have to deal with them until after he'd been able to consolidate his forces following the death of the Emperor.

So he sets up the betrayal at Calth, he sidelines the Space Wolves and Thousand Sons by having them smash eachother to bits, and the Dark Angels were nice enough to sideline themselves. That gave Horus the better part of 8 legions vs 3. Once he destroyed the Blood Angels, Imperial Fists and White Scars at Terra, he'd only have to deal with what was left of the Ultramarines, Space Wolves and possibly Dark Angels. It's a solid plan, even if it's a gamble, obviously.

The Imperium Secundus only works in this bizarre world where Horus gives up his only advantages (surprise, speed and the annihilation of the Salamanders, Raven Guard and Iron Hands) to fart around the galaxy for seven years while the loyalists regroup. A universe where Guilliman inexplicably reasons that the Emperor must be dead, and decides to start his own mini-Imperium instead of setting out to regroup the surviving loyalists and defeat the traitors.

The astute reader is left asking "Wait, if both the Blood Angels and Ultramarines are hanging out at Macragge, how come only the Blood Angels make it back in time to fight Horus at Terra? Do I even want to know the answer to this question?"

The most interesting part of Guilliman's original back story was that he essentially becomes Emperor II after/during the Scouring, but then voluntarily steps down to just be the Chapter Master of the Ultramarines. In a large part, the failures of the modern Imperium lie on his shoulders, because in the absence of the Emperor, Guilliman should have taken his father's place. He was the only one qualified to do it. Instead, he left it in the hands of mere mortals, introducing human failure into the equation.

The astute reader is left asking "Wait, if both the Blood Angels and Ultramarines are hanging out at Macragge, how come only the Blood Angels make it back in time to fight Horus at Terra? Do I even want to know the answer to this question?"

We don't know yet. But most likely because only Sanguinius is prepared to commit suicide by jumping into an impenetrable warp storm on the off-chance of some meaningful surviving element of his fleet making it through.

The Imperium Secundus only works in this bizarre world where Horus gives up his only advantages (surprise, speed and the annihilation of the Salamanders, Raven Guard and Iron Hands) to fart around the galaxy for seven years while the loyalists regroup. A universe where Guilliman inexplicably reasons that the Emperor must be dead, and decides to start his own mini-Imperium instead of setting out to regroup the surviving loyalists and defeat the traitors.

The timeline - the heresy taking seven years - existed before the HH series. In this case, it's a case of horus consolidating the army and fleet elements he needs, and - most importantly - taking Molech. Because without it he can't face down his dad and hope to live.

Gulliman is essentially at the edge of the galaxy staring at an impenetrable warp storm which destroys anything that tries to get through (and he does try, losing at least two named fleet battlegroups to the warpstorm) and which cuts him off from contacting terra either.