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2016/09/25 02:44:54
Subject: [1500] - Ultramarines - Classic Tournament List
I've got a tournament coming up next month and I wanted to get your input regarding an Ultramarine lists I had. The format and scenario is going to be ITC, but we're only running 1500 points, only 1 CAD, and no formations, allies, crazy detachments. Let me know which changes you would make. I would prefer to keep a narrative backbone of staying Ultramarines and running Sicarius, but I'm open to ideas.
That’s a lot of points in that command squad. Not sure how well it will pay off for you.
Flamers and grav never want to shoot the same thing. If the grav is not good for your target, I’d just rely on the bolters. I’d like to see grav guns/combi gravs to back them up.
Might also be worth swapping one out for full melta.
I like TML/HB speeders. Long range helps you live. Those should work though.
Preds are fun. I might drop one to pay for upgrades elsewhere. Now that the TLLC turret is reasonably priced, I find my self drawn to it more. Auto/Las was my pred of choice for a long time though, so lots of pull there.
I played test the list again against tau and I think you were right about the command squad. Without an iron hands character to tank wounds and spells to make it a real deathstar, they're not really worth it. Most of their wounds were actually inflicted by fire warriors of all things.
Another problem I'm noticing is I'm having trouble crossing into my opponents lines at the right moment which would be great for contesting his objective or picking off long ranged artillery pieces. Today, I really wish I had a flyer or barrage weapons because his crisis suits were extra annoying with their jump, shoot, jump behind a building that blocks line of sight. In terms of who won, it was inconclusive because I had to leave early for an appointment. I was racking it up in maelstrom points and playing it smart by trying to deny his, but I think I would have eventually been worn down by attrition because of his jetpacking crisis suits. Scatter bikes are going to be another issue too.
I think I'm going to change my list up to this because I really like having a flyer to get behind the enemy lines, but they're usually sturdy enough to survive. Dropping an ironclad should be a lot of fun too especially for roasting those cowardly tau hiding on their objective.
If you do go Gladius, (which you are very close to, as pointed out) a low cost armored TF would let you keep the preds, You’s need to scrape up points for the techmarine.
Alternitively, the suppression force sounds like it would help with tricksy xenos and running behind LOS. Whirlwinds don’t care a lot about that, and are low cost.
1 CAD, and no formations, allies, crazy detachments.
So a Gladius is out, FYI.
I agree with Nevelon about the Tactical Squad loadouts, I would save the points and just get Flamers for them - the Bolters mean the squad (especially a 10-man squad) is an anti-infantry tool, so with that loadout I think one weapon would always be wasted. If you want to run more Grav, you could use a small Bike Squad with 2 Grav-Guns, or Grav Centurions in a Drop Pod (since you are running a CAD anyway you can take one in a FA slot.) Rapid Fire makes more sense than Salvo to me since they already have Boltguns and will likely be moving in/out of the Rhino.
Between the 3 Preds and the Land Speeders you have a lot of anti-tank, so it does make sense to me to focus the Troops on anti-infantry and find another source for anti-TEQ (grav). Does seem a little awkward to have Meltas and Missiles when they can only shoot the same thing.
If you're taking a Stormraven it makes sense to have some kind of close-up squad along with the Ironclad, I think — maybe with the points saved from the Grav Cannons and potentially cutting a Land Speeder and/or a Predator you could bring a Sternguard squad with combi-gravs to go with Sicarius, or even put some Grav Centurions in there.
2016/09/26 17:19:07
Subject: [1500] - Ultramarines - Classic Tournament List
A lot of good insight on the lists and yeah, it's a "Classic" format so no formations, allies, or detachments so Gladius is out.
I think my lists are more or less reflective of the meta around since it's mostly MEQ's with some tau and the occasional necron and eldar so that's why it's pretty grav cannon heavy. Traditionally, I used to run plasma cannons and flamers on the tactical squads to synergize with the boltguns, but I found I didn't like how the heavy nature hampered my movement and they just didn't cut it for killing things. The grav cannons have actually been a great workhorse for the tactical marines because they threaten a lot of units in my meta and they've been amazing against alpha strike and aggressive lists. Lately, I've found it effective to move forward with the rhino, disembark the combat squad with the flamers and use that demi squad to steal midfield objectives while the grav cannon in the rhino provides support. I don't think the grav cannon is a bad fit against my usual opponents since moving with it still means it can fire 3 shots at rapid fire range and rarely am I going up against anything with less than a 4+ armor save.
Unfortunately, I don't have access to centurions, despite how effective they are. They're expensive money wise, but it's also more because I really dislike the models. Also, I'm a bigger fan of MSU spam than deathstars which ITC has been statistically known to favor.
Sicarius I usually stick with the tacticals instead of the stormraven because you can't use his +1 to reserve abilities while in reserves lol. Sternguard might not be a bad fit and my 1850, Gladius is thinking about experimenting with the Ravenhawk formation on the side. Traditionally, I've run assault terminators with hammers, but they've been letting me down lately while the ironclad's proven to be much more effective and have gotten its fair share of super heavy kills.
2016/09/26 17:27:07
Subject: [1500] - Ultramarines - Classic Tournament List
Very cool. I'm glad to hear there's still some combat effectiveness for Grav-Cannons in Tac Squads, I've been reading a lot of stuff on the B&C (just returned to the game, myself) and people have been saying it's a no-go. I also like the idea of splitting the squads, though I think I would usually put a regular Heavy Weapon (like a Lascannon) in the midfield squad and have the Flamer team go up to the frontline in the metal box. But this is all theory-crafting, I have yet to actually play a game in 7th edition yet.
Because the 'raven is an Assault Vehicle and those are usually so rare, it feels like a waste to me to not be running Terminators or Vanguards but just my two cents.
2016/09/26 17:34:19
Subject: Re:[1500] - Ultramarines - Classic Tournament List
Agreed and I love how it's helped get my dreadnoughts into more action because I really like my dreadnought models! Honor guard would be a good fit too as long as you got a tanky character with a good invulnerable save. I've also been tempted to run something as mundane as a tactical squad just to land a unit of objective secured on my opponent's lines and be annoying.
Ultramarines, 3rd Co. and friends, 16k+ 
4k 
4k Points
Competition Index
but just my two cents.