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So what core formation you think will be better?

I know that brood cyrcle has better rules, but this + subterranean suprising are thousand of miniatures spamming acolytes : /

with neophyte cavalcade, you have a little punch of shoot, always is good.

What do you think?

 N.I.B. wrote:

Subterranean uprising

0-1 Primus
0-3(?) Aberrants
3-5(?) Acolytes
1-2(?) Metamorphs

I can't remember exactly the unit numbers and the image has been removed, but I am pretty confident of the minimums

Benefits: All units gain Infiltrate and MUST deploy via Cult Ambush. When Cult Ambushing, units roll 2 dice and pick 1, roll 3 and pick 1 if the unit is joined by the Primus.

Overall Rating: 10/10. They also gain turn 1 shroud in the decurion.

Only units with native Infiltrate get Shroud from the Insurrection detachment. Which would be only the Primus of the above (who of course gives it to the unit he joins). [/quote


Decurion gives shroud to units that have infiltrate. With the subterrean units gains infiltrate, so with the decurion, they gain shroud.

I have other question.
When you roll 3 dice in subterranean uprising, you reroll same results?

 minionboy wrote:
This is kind of where my mind is going, comes to 1850 on the nose:

Cult Insurrection

The First Curse
Patriarch
Purestrain Genestealers x20

Neophyte Cavalcade
Neophyte Hybrids x10 2 Webbers
Chimera Transport x1 2 Heavy Flamers
Neophyte Hybrids x10 2 Webbers
Chimera Transport x1 2 Heavy Flamers
Leman Russ Exterminator x2 Multi-melta sponsons
Armored Sentinels x2 Autocannons

Demolition Claw
Acolyte Hybrids x5 Heavy Rock Saw, Demolition Charges
Acolyte Hybrids x5 Heavy Rock Saw, Demolition Charges
Goliath Rock Grinder x1 Heavy Seismic Cannon, Cache of Demolition Charges
Goliath Rock Grinder x1 Heavy Seismic Cannon, Cache of Demolition Charges

Subterranean Uprising
Primus x1
Metamorphs x10 Whips, Icon, 5 Hand Flamers
Acolyte Hybrids x10 2x Heavy Rock Saw
Acolyte Hybrids x10 2x Heavy Rock Saw

Kind of self explanatory I suppose. Decent amount of bodies, most of which will be shrouded turn 1, and can put out a lot of high strength attacks.

Total points?

Nobody likes the idea of broodcoven + acolyte iconward (icon of the cult) in a unit of 20 methamorps with crawsing claws from subterranean uprisng ?

This is thousand better than the first curse, (5atacks with S7 on charge, hatred, and preferent enemy..)

And maybe adding patrarch ghosar to hit and run.





ONE IMPORTANT QUESTION PLEASE.

I have the book in spanish, and in the subterranean uprising, said that if a unit of this formation is joined by THE primus, the unit roles 3 dice, this mean that only the primus of the formation gives this bonus?

In english said THE, ONE, or A primus?

Thanks a lot!!!!

River Zora wrote:
"A primus". So it looks like RAW that it doesn't have to be the Primus from that formation. Or even that detachment. Which is interesting... Although remember if going solely the 'decurion' detachment that you only get one primus anyway.

thanks for the 2 answers

The problem with the saws is that cost near triple than the acolyte :(

i dont know if its better carry them in small units (1 saw for each unit) or in a big unit. (6/8 in a unit of 20)

Im sure that im goint to have a big unit with heroes to buff it (broodcoven + iconward) but i dont know if acolytes (with saws) or metamorfs(with claws)

What do you think?

 minionboy wrote:

 N.I.B. wrote:
I see people talking about units of 20 Metamorphs - am I missing something? I thought they were max 10.

Correct, Acolytes and Neophytes can get up to 20, Metamorphs cap at 10.

Ouchh, so isnt a good idea, put all the heroes in a unit of only 10 members :(

So.. servoskulls affects cult ambush or not? : /

This is my list:

+CULT INSURRECTION:

+lord of the cult: Patriarch lvl2. (125)

+lord of the cult: Magus lvl2 and spell familiar (85)

+brood cyrcle

-Iconward (65)
-2x5 hybrids (80)
-10 hybrids, icon, boss (sword and slash), 2x chains (175)
-2 x 10 neophytes with 4 mine laser (160)
-5 methamorps with +2S claws (55)
-5 genestealers (70)

+Subterranean uprsing:
- primus (75)
-4 x 5 hybrids each unit with 1 explosive and 4 flamer pistol (320) (suicide squads)
-2 x 5 metamorps with +2S claws, boss with lash ans bone sword (150)
-10 methamorps with boss (lash and sword) icon and +2 S claws. (160)


This is near 1500 pnts. I love the spells of genestealers so i want add one of this:

+CAD : 2x10 neophite with 4 mine lasers and 2 magus lvl 2 (290)
+Broodcoven ( i remove the prime of subterranean) (190)

which prefer?


Also there are some extra points (if i remove mine lasers more points i will have) that i can use in:
- add more hybrids
-add more chains in some hybrids
-add more genestealers
- add ascendent cult icon to iconward.


What do you prefer?

Thanks to all.

Some one can post the lists of this podcast? (i dont understand well )

http://www.lounge.belloflostsouls.net/podcasts/FTNe164.mp3

One is genestealer cult + inq

Are we sure that if we join a primus from CAD in a unit from subterrain uprising, they will roll 3 dices?

With the faqs, if a independent character joins a unit from a formation, the IC doesnt win the rules from the formation, and some times, the formation lose their benefits (for example the skyhamer annihilation force) I see this formation the same as annihilation force.

Nobody likes to use acolytes hybryds from subterranean suprising as kamikazes?

5 of them with 1 demolition charge and 4 fire pistol are 80 pnts. Rolling 2 dices is easy to get 4/5/6 to trow the demolition charges in the middle of the enemy army.

And you can use 4 units of them.

 CryonicCenobyte wrote:

zamerion wrote:
Nobody likes to use acolytes hybryds from subterranean suprising as kamikazes?

5 of them with 1 demolition charge and 4 fire pistol are 80 pnts. Rolling 2 dices is easy to get 4/5/6 to trow the demolition charges in the middle of the enemy army.

And you can use 4 units of them.

You can only throw a demo charge from Ambush on a 6 result. They have a 6" range and all other results on the ambush table specify you have to be more than 6" from the enemy and cannot move.

I suppose if you're really lucky and you get the first or second result it's possible to move onto the board from the edge and demo charge an enemy who was sitting too close, but there are way too many variables there.

If at the end cult ambush is infiltrate, you can use it in deployment, that isnt a turn. Its a different phase, so you can move in your movement phase of your turn. (cult ambush rule said that you cant move in the phase movement of THE TURN that you use it)

This idea is only good if you begin the battle.

Q: If I’m using a special Detachment, such as the Nemesis Strike Force Detachment, and add Independent Characters from Battle Brother Factions (e.g. the Librarius Conclave), can they all still benefit from the first turn deployment and come in together? A: No, the rules for Detachments and Formations only apply to models/units that are part of the Detachment or Formation. Q: Do rules applying to ‘the unit’, such as those from Formation command benefits (e.g. the Skyhammer Annihilation Force), or unit-wide special rules such as Dunestrider from Codex: Skitarii apply to any attached Independent Characters? A: No.

Q: Do rules applying to ‘the unit’, such as those from Formation command benefits (e.g. the Skyhammer Annihilation Force), or unit-wide special rules such as Dunestrider from Codex: Skitarii apply to any attached Independent Characters?
A: No.
[i]

I still thinking that if you put characters from out the formation, you will lose roll 2/3 dice.

Formation said that you roll 3 dices if a primus join some unit. But with the faq, the only primus permitted is the primus that is par of the formation, the other primus arent.

But a primus that isnt from the formation, reamains a Independent character out of the formation.

And the faq is very clear saying that Independent characters out of formations doesnt benefits from the rules of the formation.

Without the faq primus out of formation rolls 3 dices, but with the faq..

 luke1705 wrote:
Even with the FAQ, I still think it works. The new FAQ is clear that the independent character doesn't benefit from the formation benefits (so he would not gain infiltrate, for example. Luckily he mega detachment provides that anyway so it doesn't cause a deployment issue).

However, it's the squad that is benefitting from the inclusion of the character. He isn't getting any special rule for being in the squad. It's a subtle distinction, but as far as I can tell, the former is not forbidden and the latter is not what is happening here. So I think it still works, as long as you're taking a cult insurrection detachment. Otherwise he doesn't have infiltrate and can't deploy with the squad because they have infiltrate.

I understand your point of view. But, rolls 3 dices isnt a benefit from the primus?

Units win a benefit thanks to the primus yes. But the primus wins a benefit too, thanks to be part of the formation. Two thing are necessary: a primus (anyone) and be part of the formation.

The faq said that independent characters dont win benefits for join formations. And rolls more dices is a benefit.

As you said, you can join any character in a unit, and win the 2/3 rolls from the formation, because the benefit is from the squad.

Im really interesting in clarify this, if im wrong, 3 units from subteranean upsring with 3 broodcoven...

I have other question.

Can i make 2 cult insurrection detachament (2 decurions) and benefit with +2 to the reserves?

11 points per hybrid acolyte... only 2 rend atacks.. orks cost 6...
We are crazy?



Opinions from 8th?

rockgrinder is the key!!



power hammer are vey good, but aberrants with it are very very expensive..


Metamorphs ( 18 points with the mandatory talon ), gobye claws (6 points wihout rend..), hello whip, you die and you still atacking, and you dont need to atack with the whip..


Also.. genestealers.. are very good, 18 points each...but, i see tyanids and they cost 12.. 6 points for the ambush? its a joke?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Any idea how to play them?

I dont know if use a lot of small units with heavy close combat weapons in chimeras..

or

abuse of msu cult ambush without equipment

or

make "big" units of genestealers and aberrants with some iconwards (i thinks that you can accumulate some rolls)


Im really lost :(

Yes, i think that you can go to the board on the turn that you want with the cult ambush.

But now all armies have perfect deep strike or similar, so if you only have some shoot units the enemy will kill them easy.


So to begin, i dont know if its better to abuse of cult ambush (now if you have a bad roll, its a really big problem) or its better use our vehicles to assault..

5 hybrids with rock cutter and whip for the boss are 104 points.. and now that each hybrid only has 2 "rend" atacks, i think that is required some heavy close combat weapon in each unit.

Now our salvation is worst, so we need vehicles to assault.

the best vehicle for the price and damage i think that its rockgrinder, with flamer and demolitions cost 136 (but only can transport 6 miniatures)

Nude chimera is 93 and nude goliath 107 but goliath with T6 its very weak :( So for transport more than 6 miniatures id prefer chimera.

So 5 vehicles and 5 units and you have more than 1000 points. Very very expensive : /


And my biggest dilemma... big unit of genestealer or not? XD
I love them, but it really hurts me to pay 6 points more than tyranids players for each genestealer..

I like them with whips (15 points)

They die in close combat and still fighting with the rending claws. So, you can activate them the last.





And in general for all units, what do you think? it's better big units or a lot of small units?

mmimzie, thanks for your advice.

I love genestealers, but really the cult ambush rule cost 6 points? because tyranids genestealers cost 12.. :(

Also do you use any vehicle?

And whats about aberrants?


thanks in advance

In spain people is saying that the meta will be horde/rubbish miniatures with some big toys, at least for the moment. For example chaos: spam of brimstone horrores + magnus+1/2 renegade knights


So im thinking in made an imperial guard brigade or battalion detachament with all infantery with plasmas (to have units to deploy on table), and 2 genestealers cult batallion deteachement with 3 big units, maybe 1 aberrants + primus, 1 genestealers + patriarch and 1 acolytes full heavy weapons + primus, and the rest of the army a lot of small units of acollytes with ambush.


what do you think?

for the points of neophytes, dont you prefer a detachement of astra militarum?

They shoot better with orders, are cheaper, and with a cheap comissar you "dont have moral". (for example 3 infantery squads with 1 heavy weapon each, 3/4 speacial squads, creed, and some other character)



Also for the points of 20 genestealers, you can have 20 hybrids and 6!! heavy weapons. Hybrids are weaker, but they are much more versatile, because they can deal with hordes and with big creatures.


I think that GW need to check points of us units :(

Timeshadow wrote:
Has anyone considered adding tyranid genestealers instead of guard? Or adding one or two big bugs? Another question are tyranid and guard mutually exclusive in the gsc list or can we mix and match as long as we have more cult than other?

I was thinking in mix all, i like genestealers from tyranids and with 1/2 broodlords to have psych powers (that affects to cult)

but there arent points for all XD

Also , if you only have a few combat units deployed on the table, the enemy will kill them easy.

So id prefer a lot of small guard units to shoot a little (with mortars) and ambush with all units from genestealers cult.



Really its very hard to make a good list today :(

Danny slag wrote:
(yet we still pay the same points after losing those rules, s.

No, we paid more.. :(

I had a similar idea at the beginning but making a brigade deteachament

patriarch with a unit of genestealers (they will reroll cult with strategms), primus with big unit of acolytes and heavy weapons (they will auto pass morale with stratagems) 3 rockgrinders, 3 small units of acolytes in them, 3 sentinels with missile launcher, 2 small units of methamorphs(ambush), and 2 units of acolytes(ambush) or 2 units of neophytes.


I think that the problem with this list is that we only have 2/3 "big" miniatures (rockgrinder) and all weapons with multiple wounds are going to them, and kill them easy..


And at at the end id prefer mix with a brigade of guard, for 700/800 points you can have 6 units "inmune" to moral, some heavy weapons and a lot of bodies to capture points (and 11 scommand points with kreed)

With the remaining 1300 points you can make full cult genestealer ambush units.

My biggest doubt is what is better, big units, or small units to ambush.. If you faill ambush, both will be dead.

-With big unit its easy reroll ambush or charge, but if you fail too, its a really big problem. Also if you assault and kill one or two units, next you must go walking around the table.. so all fire is going to them.

-With small units, you will roll more ambush, and have more chance to assault, but then there are 2 problems, overwatch.. and dont have the power required to kill the enemy unit..

So.. i dont know what to do :(


Automatically Appended Next Post:

mmimzie wrote:


The drills are a little more versatile and can take out tough units or horde units as the mortal wounds spill over, and so they are a flex unit.

Thank you for saying this. I didnt remember that mortal wounds spill over!
Also, magus, you deploy it on table or use ambush?

Im still thinking that big units arent the best idea.

2 or 3 units of 15/20 miniatures of T3 are really very easy to kill, and with the heavy weapons are very expensive units. Yes, when you assault with the ambush you can kill one or 2 units (if they are near) but the next turn you are dead.
Also deploy 20 miniatures more than 9 ums from ebemy units, sometimes will be hard.


So i have 2 lists to test

The friendly:

Brigade genestealer cult
-Patriarch with 2 familiars
-Magus
-Primus
-3 goliath rockgrinder, heavy stubbers, demolition charges, incinerators
-3 scout sentinels, heavy flamers
-2 x 10 neophytes
-15 genestealers
-2x 5 metamophs whips
-3 x 5 hybrids , 3 heavy rock drill (one each)
-15 hybrids, 6 heavy rock cutter

1966 points 12 command points

Maybe one familiar go out and little fixes more to add other magus.
Patriarch with genestealers, reroll ambush if i need. Primus with big units of hybrids (to kill big creatures), and auto pass moral if i need.
The small units of hybrids in goliaths.
6 units with ambush (+ patriarch and primus)



And this is the ugly list:

Brigade astra militarum
-Kreed
-2 company commander
-3 commisars
-6 x 10 company squad, 4 mortars
-3 scout sentinels, multilaser
-3 x 3 heavy squads mortars

Batalion genestealer cult
-2 primus
-6 x 5 hybrids , 6 heavy rock drills

Batalion genestealer cult
-2 primus
-6 x 5 hybrids , 6 heavy rock drills

2000 points 20 command points.

Maybe i will change 2 primus for 2 magus.

12 units with ambus + heros.

mmimzie

Thanks for clarify the drill. Then id prefer cutters.



So you think that the best way to play genestealer cult army is an alpha strike? Kill everything as you can the first turn with big units.

The problem with this is that the enemy begins first, or stole your initiative. Or other alpha strike armys or armys with only a few units and he can deploy them very separated.

With small units you can use the ambush 3 turns, and select where and when make the damege (yes less damage than a big unit)


i really dont know



Also, i have a question, the rule of ambush said:

during deployment you can set this unit up instead of on battlefield.

other similar rules said:

during deployment, you can set it up in a teleportarium chamber instead of placing it on the battlefield"

you need to select a unit, and said this is on reserve? so, it counts as a unit in the deployment, and you need go one by one?