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How often do you guys run into this particular gamer?

I have two or three players in my local area who have been playing for years, and usually are at the game store 2-3 times a month if not more. And yet for all that experience they some how forget basic things about the game on a regular basis. I played one memorable game against one of them where he refused to believe me that S4 bolters could not hurt AV11 Killa Kanz because S4 can't glance AV11. He spent about 10 minutes searching for a rule until i was finally able to convince him that unless the weapon had a special rule such as Melta or rending that it couldn't do that.

I understand forgetting rules for other players armies, I understand forgetting the more obscure stats for models you don't use often, I will never understand how an experienced SM player needs to be told that his SM tacticals are armed with bolters and that they are S4 and that when shooting at a T4 model he needs 4s to hit

I know these guys well, I have played them for a long time and I Know that they don't cheat or "forget" for advantage. I just never understand how basic concepts get fethed up so often.

Do you guys have players like this in your meta and what would be your prime example of forgetful shenanigans?

Yes, we have a few.

Sometimes people just forget the basics because of the monotony of a lot of procedures in 40K, or just plain error combined with not having your head screwed on in the evening.

I know that I've messed up quite a bit - the other week I was trying to reason the point of taking a Meltagun in a Kill Team match lacking any vehicles, before realising that instant death is pointless against single wound models.

They may not play regularly either, like me, who only plays Kill Team; that's often a culprit for being rusty on some rules.

Not quite like the description in the OP, but I can kind of identify.

It comes from a variety of reasons (for me, anyways.)

For instance, a few weeks ago I straight up got a rule wrong while teaching X Wing. A game I've played regularly for years and attended tourneys with, and a rule that is relevant almost every single turn. I attribute that to mental fatigue, teaching the game meant I was essentially playing both sides, coupled with the fact that the guy, while perfectly pleasant, was a little older and a little slow on the uptake, which all combined to be quite draining.

For 40K, it most commonly occurs as a result of Edition Confusion™, something that I suspect many vets will identify with.

Also, as I've got older, I just don't care. Back in my teens, playing 2nd, I read and reread every codex and rulebook on an almost weekly basis, I probably put more effort into learning 40K than my exams. I knew the minutiae of every book. These days, it's almost all I can do to slog through a rulebook for any game, let alone the ridiculous encyclopedia-like tome 40K has become (it's been an issue for Darklands too.)

20+ years ago, wargaming was a massive part of my life, I did it, all my friends did it, it was what we did when we socialized. These days, there's other things in my life, and I have some non-nerd friends, so it is now something I do for fun. I still like to get things correct, because I'd hate to win or lose a game based on a faulty rule application, but I'm much less compelled to study the books intimately, and consequently stuff does get muddled.

SemperMortis wrote:
I understand forgetting rules for other players armies, I understand forgetting the more obscure stats for models you don't use often, I will never understand how an experienced SM player needs to be told that his SM tacticals are armed with bolters and that they are S4 and that when shooting at a T4 model he needs 4s to hit

I like how you screwed up in your example. What Space Marine hits on a 4?

I'm honestly not sure if that was just an honest mistake (easily attributed to, like others have said, mental fatigue or similar) or an intentional joke, but either way, I got a little chuckle.

SemperMortis wrote:
How often do you guys run into this particular gamer?

I have two or three players in my local area who have been playing for years, and usually are at the game store 2-3 times a month if not more. And yet for all that experience they some how forget basic things about the game on a regular basis. I played one memorable game against one of them where he refused to believe me that S4 bolters could not hurt AV11 Killa Kanz because S4 can't glance AV11. He spent about 10 minutes searching for a rule until i was finally able to convince him that unless the weapon had a special rule such as Melta or rending that it couldn't do that.

I understand forgetting rules for other players armies, I understand forgetting the more obscure stats for models you don't use often, I will never understand how an experienced SM player needs to be told that his SM tacticals are armed with bolters and that they are S4 and that when shooting at a T4 model he needs 4s to hit

I know these guys well, I have played them for a long time and I Know that they don't cheat or "forget" for advantage. I just never understand how basic concepts get fethed up so often.

Do you guys have players like this in your meta and what would be your prime example of forgetful shenanigans?

This usually stems from one of 3 things

1. The guys really are that forgetful. I've met guys who have been playing for years but still had trouble grasping relatively common rules like to wound tables. Some people are just that way, especially if they've been playing for a long time. Heck, I still mix up special rules since GW seems hellbent on slightly changing them every couple years to screw with me.

2. They play a lot of games. This is easier to mixup than you think, especially if they play other 28mm games. For example, I play Bolt Action as well, which was has a completely different system for terrain, movement, cover, etc, yet is the same scale. It's not hard to think you're using one game's rule to find out later you're not playing the right ruleset

3. Theyre grogs who've been playing for a LONG time. For example, trying to remember the vehicle damage table when the effects shift from edition to edition, or trying to remember your codex when things keep shuffling around by a few points. This gets me the most. I'll go to buy a commissar expecting to pay 35pts to find out theyre really 25, or budget 70 for a vet squad just to remember theyre 60 base because Krak grenades are optional equipment now. For example, Commissars used to pop the model with the highest LD who wasn't a commissar when a morale check failed, and then you got a reroll. Now you roll to see if you can pick, and regardless morale autopasses. This may not seem like much but after a couple editions it adds up

 MrMoustaffa wrote:

3. Theyre grogs who've been playing for a LONG time. For example, trying to remember the vehicle damage table when the effects shift from edition to edition, or trying to remember your codex when things keep shuffling around by a few points. This gets me the most. I'll go to buy a commissar expecting to pay 35pts to find out theyre really 25, or budget 70 for a vet squad just to remember theyre 60 base because Krak grenades are optional equipment now. For example, Commissars used to pop the model with the highest LD who wasn't a commissar when a morale check failed, and then you got a reroll. Now you roll to see if you can pick, and regardless morale autopasses. This may not seem like much but after a couple editions it adds up

So much this. The number of times I've confused old and new rules isn't pretty. Particularily concerning charges in this edition, vehicle damadge tables, feel no pain, deployments and leadership checks.

I can top that...I designed and sell a wargame in another genre. Playing against my friend one night, she played a card I'd forgotten I even wrote! I said "nonsense, that's not a real card...ohhhhh..."

 JNAProductions wrote:

SemperMortis wrote:
I understand forgetting rules for other players armies, I understand forgetting the more obscure stats for models you don't use often, I will never understand how an experienced SM player needs to be told that his SM tacticals are armed with bolters and that they are S4 and that when shooting at a T4 model he needs 4s to hit

I like how you screwed up in your example. What Space Marine hits on a 4?

I'm honestly not sure if that was just an honest mistake (easily attributed to, like others have said, mental fatigue or similar) or an intentional joke, but either way, I got a little chuckle.

I think he meant "to wound" based on the context. S4 vs T4.

 JNAProductions wrote:

SemperMortis wrote:
I understand forgetting rules for other players armies, I understand forgetting the more obscure stats for models you don't use often, I will never understand how an experienced SM player needs to be told that his SM tacticals are armed with bolters and that they are S4 and that when shooting at a T4 model he needs 4s to hit

I like how you screwed up in your example. What Space Marine hits on a 4?

I'm honestly not sure if that was just an honest mistake (easily attributed to, like others have said, mental fatigue or similar) or an intentional joke, but either way, I got a little chuckle.

I make the unfortunate mistake of saying "to hit" a lot when I mean to wound

 cox.dan2 wrote:

 JNAProductions wrote:

SemperMortis wrote:
I understand forgetting rules for other players armies, I understand forgetting the more obscure stats for models you don't use often, I will never understand how an experienced SM player needs to be told that his SM tacticals are armed with bolters and that they are S4 and that when shooting at a T4 model he needs 4s to hit

I like how you screwed up in your example. What Space Marine hits on a 4?

I'm honestly not sure if that was just an honest mistake (easily attributed to, like others have said, mental fatigue or similar) or an intentional joke, but either way, I got a little chuckle.

I think he meant "to wound" based on the context. S4 vs T4.

Obviously. Wrong words were used, however, and giggles were had.

That would be me. Multiple games, multiple editions, multiple years, multiple armies.

"Oh, wait. That rule was 4th edition...."

As someone who ducked out of 40k not long after 3rd ed. moved into 4th, then jumped back in since the release of 7th, and have only had the chance to play a couple of games so far, I can add to the chorus of people falling foul of edition confusion. I definitely couldn't tell you with any certainty the ways, say, the vehicle rules in 3rd/4th/7th differ from one another (and I don't want to go and look it up lest I confuse myself further).

The stuff that's stayed the same since 1st though (e.g. to hit/wound tables, bolters being S4) is so ingrained in my brain I don't think I'll ever forget it, from a combination of being exposed to it at an impressionable age, and having the time when I was younger to read the rulebooks over and over and over again. If they changed any of that stuff, then I'd really be in trouble.