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Some of the world's top female chess players are upset that the next world championship will be held in Iran, where players are expected to wear head scarves.
The US women's champion, Nazi Paikidze-Barnes, will not be taking part in the event in Tehran next February due to her concern over the issue.

Meanwhile former Pan American champion Carla Heredia -- who did not qualify for the Tehran tournament -- also called for the 64 women who are playing there to protest against the hijab rule.

Now they've done it; Iran got chess players angry; it is all downhill from here.

Who names their kid Nazi?

 Crazy_Carnifex wrote:
Who names their kid Nazi?

People not from Europe (it is pronounced more like "Nassi")

I found this bit quite funny. I think it's rather gracious of Iran to offer to host it, since no one else in the world would.

Iran was the only country which made a proposal to host the event, a World Chess Federation (FIDE) spokeswoman told CNN in a statement.

It's a good thing to, otherwise no one would even know there was a females world chess tournament

but seriously, when in rome, do as the romans. they'd be a guest in Iran, so they should honor their customs.

or do not go to a country where flogging and stoning are still a thing and American tourists get imprisoned.

It's their country, they have the right to dictate the attire.

As an American I would not go to Iran regardless of what my wardrobe was, though.

 Ahtman wrote:
Delicious link

Some of the world's top female chess players are upset that the next world championship will be held in Iran, where players are expected to wear head scarves.
The US women's champion, Nazi Paikidze-Barnes, will not be taking part in the event in Tehran next February due to her concern over the issue.

Meanwhile former Pan American champion Carla Heredia -- who did not qualify for the Tehran tournament -- also called for the 64 women who are playing there to protest against the hijab rule.

Now they've done it; Iran got chess players angry; it is all downhill from here.

It was always a risky gambit.

Bit split, to be honest. On the one hand, Iran is a little backwards when it comes to a good few things, and I acknowledge and understand the complaints. On the other, it's a foreign country under no obligation to cater to a handful of people temporarily staying there, and I'm not incredibly sure that they'll be accommodating to what they likely see as reprehensible Western values. There's also the fact that Iran was hardly the first choice. Perhaps instead of being annoyed that another country has its own laws--however discriminatory--the players should be turning their ire on the veritable raft of infinitely more suitable countries that decided they didn't want anything to do with them. Surely their various associations would know what hosting the championship somewhere like Iran would entail, but it doesn't seem to me like they were all that bothered--certainly not enough to volunteer themselves, at any rate.

Sometimes you have to ask why you've been left scraping the barrel, not just complaining about having to do it.

I consciously alter my wardrobe depending on what country I'm visiting, and Iran would certainly be no different. A friend of mine from Canada visited Iran and she wore a hijab while she was there and seemed like she had a great time.

If they don't want to wear a hijab and don't want to go, then more power to them. But at the same time, visiting some countries have certain requirements. I'm not trying to justify the issues that Iran has - there is certainly legitimate criticism that can be leveled against them. That said, there are also realistic expectations for what the dress code will be when you have a chess tournament taking place in freaking Iran.

 Crazy_Carnifex wrote:
Who names their kid Nazi?

Agreed. There's no way that will ever end well.

No doubt somebody somewhere will use their name against them; "Have a problem with a Muslim country? Typical Nazi".

Anyway, anyone with a problem should boycott it. I hope they will too. My hatred of Iran is matched only by my hatred of Saudi Arabia.

Dress codes aren't unusual at chess tournaments, they often stipulate smart clothing, and prohibit all manner of odd things that might distract your opponent, such as low cut tops, or bad body odor. Iran seems to be reasonably liberal about how the hijab is worn... while I'm not entirely in favour of women being forced to wear them, I don't think they're anymore cruel or uncomfortable than men being expected to wear blazers and ties. We also have expectations for how women should dress: I'm certain that if a woman came to the US, from somewhere like Namibia, to play in a televised chess tournament, she would also be made to wear a top (to protect her modesty), even though that might not be normal for her at home.

Personally, I would love the chance to visit Iran, they have some absolutely breathtaking Persian archeological sites, and I think it's a positive thing that they are opening their doors to international events (especially women's events).

They are opening there doors but...

You can understand why some may be less pleased about the dress code and location. Some times location matters as I doubt Israel is attending etc..

Sometimes a more neutral country is better.
Say the Swiss, Canada etc.

 jhe90 wrote:
They are opening there doors but...

You can understand why some may be less pleased about the dress code and location. Some times location matters as I doubt Israel is attending etc..

Sometimes a more neutral country is better.
Say the Swiss, Canada etc.

Iran was the only country which made a proposal to host the event, a World Chess Federation (FIDE) spokeswoman told CNN in a statement.

Why did no other country offer to hold the event? Not a big fan of Iran, but they at least saw merit in holding the event.

 Mr. Burning wrote:

 jhe90 wrote:
They are opening there doors but...

You can understand why some may be less pleased about the dress code and location. Some times location matters as I doubt Israel is attending etc..

Sometimes a more neutral country is better.
Say the Swiss, Canada etc.

Iran was the only country which made a proposal to host the event, a World Chess Federation (FIDE) spokeswoman told CNN in a statement.

Why did no other country offer to hold the event? Not a big fan of Iran, but they at least saw merit in holding the event.

Aye, of all events that's cheap as anything to host.
No Olympics level stuff and security needed.

Venues not too hard.
It does not need a specialist stadia

Next year the tournament is being held in France, where it will be illegal to wear a hijab.

The same people protesting today by not wearing a hijab will protest next year by wearing one.

Compare and contrast.

IIRC Iranian rules for covering your hair are very lax compared to other places - if too much hair is visible you'll just have some police or guard walk up to you and politely ask that you correct it instead of immediately getting arrested or stoned by an angry mob. But sure, people can choose to not go if covering your hair for a tournament is worse than not playing at all.

Somewhat off-topic I find it rather hilarious how Americans and Brits of all people dislike the place. The Brits had the USA help overthrow a democratic government and prop up the Shah as ruler because the Iranians wanted their oil for themself instead of giving it to the British Navy at huge discounts. Religious hardliners taking power was in large part a response to the decadent lifestyle of the Shah and his elite/cronies.

 Mr. Burning wrote:

 jhe90 wrote:
They are opening there doors but...

You can understand why some may be less pleased about the dress code and location. Some times location matters as I doubt Israel is attending etc..

Sometimes a more neutral country is better.
Say the Swiss, Canada etc.

Iran was the only country which made a proposal to host the event, a World Chess Federation (FIDE) spokeswoman told CNN in a statement.

Why did no other country offer to hold the event? Not a big fan of Iran, but they at least saw merit in holding the event.

I'm not sure why Iran offered when no one else did, but I imagined it went something like this

chess president: ok, who wants to host the womens event?

bueler?

bueler?

bueler?

an hour later

bueler?

Iran: shut the heck up, we'll do it. just let us out of here

 Crazy_Carnifex wrote:
Who names their kid Nazi?

It is a common Georgian name.



And I don't understand the objection against wearing hijab. It is not as if cultural dress codes are anything new, so I suspect the real reason here is islamophobia. If you can't show the simple courtesy of not offending your hosts when travelling to a foreign country, then you should never be travelling in the first place.

 Iron_Captain wrote:
If you can't show the simple courtesy of not offending your hosts when travelling to a foreign country, then you should never be travelling in the first place.

I couldn't agree more, provided that it works both ways.

Anyway, my objections to the hijab come from the reasoning behind it. But leaving that aside, I think that Iran should be avoided like the plague because of its abhorant attitudes and practices.

 Iron_Captain wrote:

 Crazy_Carnifex wrote:
Who names their kid Nazi?

It is a common Georgian name.



And I don't understand the objection against wearing hijab. It is not as if cultural dress codes are anything new, so I suspect the real reason here is islamophobia. If you can't show the simple courtesy of not offending your hosts when travelling to a foreign country, then you should never be travelling in the first place.

Well Islam doesn't have a great track record when it comes to treatment of women and women's rights, so I can understand why someone would specifically object more to wearing a hijab compared to other cultural dress.

Personally I'd simply not go to Iran if I felt strongly about it, but then I don't know how big of a deal the chess world championships are, I imagine it could be difficult if it's a really important event in your life but you also really don't want to go to Iran. It's a shame a more progressive country didn't put their hand up to host it.

I'll play devil's advocate and say, firstly, the hijab requirement is non-event. Somebody already pointed out the '..when in Rome...' bit. It's a true and valid statement, and if it's that offensive to someone...which I really can't buy...then simply bow out.
Secondly, yes Iran is a terrible, horrible, disgusting, terror sponsoring, abhorrent, evil, doesn't like puppies, medieval mind-set theocracy that should be avoided and scorned and sanctioned and blah, blah, blah. Well, that simply hasn't worked very well and it's time to see if the olive branch and inclusion into the world at large does work to bring them towards a more moderate place. There's just been too much application of the stick version of diplomacy and I don't see much improvements to show for it. How about a little acceptance of 'they're different, I'm different and that's just the way it is' as a base for building better relations? At the end of the day, a lot of our "enemies" can throw around some real gems as examples of our less than exemplary conduct in world and domestic affairs, so some perspective and self reflection needs to be applied here.
It's small steps, like this Chess tournament, that is how bridges get built.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
Next year the tournament is being held in France, where it will be illegal to wear a hijab.

The same people protesting today by not wearing a hijab will protest next year by wearing one.

Compare and contrast.

I believe the burka is banned, no the hijab.

@ BigWaagh

When the sanctions where lifted Iran couldn't wait to redeclare their intent to destroy Isreal. It's fruitless and wrong to reason with them. We should have went deeper with sanctions instead of lifting them. Treat them like the scum that they are. I just wish we'd do the same with Saudi Arabia.

 Future War Cultist wrote:
@ BigWaagh

When the sanctions where lifted Iran couldn't wait to redeclare their intent to destroy Isreal. It's fruitless and wrong to reason with them. We should have went deeper with sanctions instead of lifting them. Treat them like the scum that they are. I just wish we'd do the same with Saudi Arabia.

They've been saying "Death to Isreal" and "Death to US" for decades, we're still around and so is Isreal. Sometimes you've got to see behind the rhetoric and realize there's a country full of young, quit educated people who don't like the mullahs any more than we do. They'll be the next victims of Arab Spring part deux, methinks. We need to stop being the focus of the hate and let the internal grumblings manifest into action and do their thing without a scapegoat...the oppressive satanic West...for the hardliners to use to distract the population.

Why in the world are the separate men's and women's chess tournaments? Surely if there's one game where men's greater physical size doesn't matter, it would be chess.

Meanwhile, Iran is backwards, and has a lot of unhealthy ideas about women. As such, it's a mistake for any international body to arrange a major event there. However, Iran was the only country that offered to host, so women's chess chose the only option available. It'd be nice if some other place would step up and offer to host. Failing that, I understand and support any woman that wanted to boycott the event, but also accept that lots of woman would just want to play and don't care much about the politics, or about wearing a headscarf.

I also accept that me posting on a wargaming forum that everyone's decisions are okay means exactly nothing


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 BigWaaagh wrote:
They've been saying "Death to Isreal" and "Death to US" for decades, we're still around and so is Isreal. Sometimes you've got to see behind the rhetoric...

The US spent a long time chanting "better dead than red", and yet I doubt many Americans were actually very keen on blowing up the whole planet just to stop communism.

 sebster wrote:
Why in the world are the separate men's and women's chess tournaments? Surely if there's one game where men's greater physical size doesn't matter, it would be chess.

Because if there wasn't a separate women's event, there would be very few (if any) women in world championships. So segregating them is with the purpose of getting more women in to high level championships and hopefully encouraging more women to join.

Whether it's because men generally are better at thinking tactically in a way that benefits them when playing chess or simply that there aren't many women willing to dedicate themselves to the game, either way if you removed the separate women's competition you'd basically be removing women because most of the top players are men.

It's a bit of mystery as to why men seem to outperform women at chess. I don't think it has much to do with intelligence or innate ability. My suspicion is that men, being slightly more "on the spectrum" than women, are just more prone to obsessing about stupid things like chess, and so the game appeals to them more, and thus they vastly outnumber women. I say that as a paid up member of the English Chess Federation.

In any case, there is an apparent discrepancy in ability between men and women, so having women only events makes sense. However, women can (and do) still compete against men in regular events, such as the world championships.

Regarding the venue in Iran... FIDE (the international governing body for chess), is considered by many to be massively corrupt, and heavily steeped in political fallout from the soviet union. The president of FIDE for the last ~20 years: Kirsan Ilyumzhinov, was also the long-time president of a small (former soviet) republic, where he was accused of vote rigging, and having journalists murdered. Needless to say, the direction in which he has taken the organisation would be considered farcical by many in the west. Iran has very different diplomatic relations with Russia and China than it does with the west, and that's the political sphere in which Ilyumzhinov operates.

 Smacks wrote:
It's a bit of mystery as to why men seem to outperform women at chess. I don't think it has much to do with intelligence or innate ability. My suspicion is that men, being slightly more "on the spectrum" than women, are just more prone to obsessing about stupid things like chess, and so the game appeals to them more, and thus they vastly outnumber women. I say that as a paid up member of the English Chess Federation.

Probably just tradition and opportunity. Chess has traditionally been a game played by males, so males have traditionally been the ones trained to play it. Generations of that add up. I doubt there is any gender linked "chess gene".

 jmurph wrote:

 Smacks wrote:
It's a bit of mystery as to why men seem to outperform women at chess. I don't think it has much to do with intelligence or innate ability. My suspicion is that men, being slightly more "on the spectrum" than women, are just more prone to obsessing about stupid things like chess, and so the game appeals to them more, and thus they vastly outnumber women. I say that as a paid up member of the English Chess Federation.

Probably just tradition and opportunity. Chess has traditionally been a game played by males, so males have traditionally been the ones trained to play it. Generations of that add up. I doubt there is any gender linked "chess gene".

It's really hard to say though. Men and women are wired up differently even without cultural factors. There are measurable structural and chemical differences between typical male and female brains so it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest that men are naturally better at chess.

Though maybe it just purely comes down to practice and dedication, though I've seen people told off for saying that because it diminishes the work many top female players put in to it.

Either way, if you take the top 100 chess players in the world it seems to be mostly devoid of female players, hence the separate women's competitions. I don't know how the ratings are calculated, but there's only 1 woman that has a high enough rating to crack the top 100.

I feel myself drawn to this forum for all the wrong reasons.
First off, women specific chess championship? Where were these people while I was growing up?!?! Awesome.
Being given a first name as "Nazi" is just attention getting no matter how you look at it.
I personally feel men are repressed for not being required to wear turbans: all those balding folk would look very dapper and no-one would know.

I think it was well said somewhere (cannot place the quote), "It is better to participate and protest at the event than to boycott it and never enter the discussion."

Iran has many issues, they are a host, it is best to be graceful in following the customs and asking a lot of questions on the need may help them examine the custom more critically.
I would take my shoes off and wear the guest slippers in Japan, not show the bottom of your feet or eat with your left hand in Saudi Arabia... why not this?
All because a woman's hair is possibly considered a "sexual object", so to prevent the men there going "crazy" from seeing your hair, it sounds like something that should be done.

Though, if the competition is televised, it would certainly raise some questions from those watching who do not know it is held in iran.

Ah well, being fair to women is important, but I figure having a women's only chess competition rather than mixed defeats the purpose no?