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hi all i was just wondering which squad is better to have in ur army and y, the vanguard or the sternguard?

kermit84 wrote:
hi all i was just wondering which squad is better to have in ur army and y, the vanguard or the sternguard?

Depends a lot on the rest of your list and other factors. But generally Sternguard. Special ammo can solve a large number of problems on the table, and combi-spam can fill amost any firepower gap.

Close combat is more risky, harder to pull off, but can yield some good results. It’s not that vanguard are bad. But in general, shooting is a better option these days.

ok cool thank you for ur help

I'd agree with Nevelon. In general, Sternguard will do better, but if you can let us know more about who and what you face, then we can provide more specific advice.

i generally play against chaos or other marine armies usually do 2000pts worth to make a good afternoon of it ha ha.

You could try a shadowstrike kill team they always do me good no matter what list I add them too if I have a few hundred points spare I'll throw one in there they can be a fairly cheap harassment unit or a real threat with 5 lightning claws against other marines

Yeah, sterguard are generally better, they can shoot anything. If you happen to play crimson fists they get a LOT more useful; the imperial fists chapter tactics let them reroll 1s with their special bolters and they have ObSec if you bring Pedro Kantor. The vanguard do get cheap power weapons now though and if you want to have jump guys take up an ELITE slot rather than FAST you can take these guys.

Depends. Generally, sternguard are better. However, a list built around vanguard and assault marines alpha striking is really good if built right.

How do you guys normally run vanguard or Sternguard?
5-6-10man? DS/own table half/pod?

Do you ever mix combi-weaponry with sternguard?

6man sternguard w/ 3x combi-melta & 3x combi-grav in a pod got any point or would you always go 5-6 combi-melta/grav?

For the vanguards, lack of SS has forced me for 1x PF 2x PS 2-3 regular jump pack VV unit in archangel's strike force, totally useless yes?`Even with or without a priest.

Xirax wrote:
How do you guys normally run vanguard or Sternguard?
5-6-10man? DS/own table half/pod?

Do you ever mix combi-weaponry with sternguard?

6man sternguard w/ 3x combi-melta & 3x combi-grav in a pod got any point or would you always go 5-6 combi-melta/grav?

For the vanguards, lack of SS has forced me for 1x PF 2x PS 2-3 regular jump pack VV unit in archangel's strike force, totally useless yes?`Even with or without a priest.

It’s worth noting that context is very important here. While he didn’t mention a codex in his original post, the OP does have "Ultramarines 3rd company” in his sig. So we can assume he is talking about the vanilla marine codex (and is a man of impecable taste and probably ruggedly handsome as well, both traits of those who play 3rd co. Ultras )

But it sounds like you are talking about BAs. Which not only have different formations which change things, but IIRC don’t get the discounts on the CC toys like vanilla VVs do. Not to mention competing with guys like the death co.

All that notwithstanding, I’ll answer from a generic POV.

Sternguard should be focused on one target. The only time to try to take two roles is if you are a full 10 men and plan on combat squadding out of a drop pod. I like my sternguard mostly naked, with a pair of HFs (the only weapon I think if worth dropping the special ammo for) That said, I did take a squad out 2 weeks ago with 10 men, 4 c-meltas, 2xHF, and the rest basic. Worked just fine. You generally need 4ish melta to reliably pop a tank, so I’d not take fewer combis then that.

Only take combi spam if you plan on podding. You need to ensure the aplha strike to get your points back. Put them in a rhino and they are going to shot in the backfield, and picked apart before getting into range.

If you want to give the sarge a CC toy, lightning claw is probably your best option. You want to keep the bolter, so a specialist weapon is the go-to choice.

For vanguard vets I’m drifing towards a mix of swords and axes, with a few SSs tacked on. Jump packs always.

Edit:
On squad size:
Bolter fire, even with special ammo, needs mass to work. 10 man squads. Suicide combi drops can be 5 men.
For VV, generally small squads. 5 men, or a few extra bodies as points allow. I find large squads have too large a footprint, and are problematic keeping out of LoS as they advance.

True, I was talking about BA. Put this thread seemed the best to ask that.

My next game will be against Traitor's hate tuned CSM warband with Kharn.

I'm kitbashing combi-weapons for veteran squad and was wondering if I should do a 6man 3 combi-melta and 3 combi-grav unit because they have atleast a minimal synergy within targets. 2mm Magnets seem too time consuming to do. Heavy flamers I use with tacticals so combis all the way with my podding 5-6man sternguard.

For VV I can only paint my assault marine helmets gold so upgrades are quite limited two power swords, 1 power fist and a gunslinging inferno pistol model. Maybe not worth it while, but was in consideration because of the high point cost of archangels strike force.

But thanks for the feedback.