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Hi there,

Yes, I'm another noob to Infinity, posting my first list for review. Please shred it before my opponent does on the the tabletop.,

We're doing an escalation league - starting with 150 points, working our way to 300 over the next few months.

I am intrigued by Haqq's ability to screw with the enemy's head. Thus, this list.

GHULAM Lieutenant (R+LS)
GHULAM Doctor plus (R + LS)
NASMAT remote
MUYIB (R + LGL) (normal + smoke ammo)
HAFZA (HRL)
BASHI BAZOUK (Combi rifle + e-mauler)
TUAREG (sniper rifle, AP mines)
TUAREG (BSG, AP Mines)

So, here's the concept: start the game with only 5 models on table, 'castled up' in the deployment zone, in as much total cover as possible. The Hafza masquerades as a Daylami with LSG, basic cheerleader model.

This will, in theory, draw the enemy out of cover and encourage them to advance towards my deployment zone. I act scared, drop some GL templates on them from total cover using Spec Fire. Hopefully my opponent will get overconfident and advance in the open.

Then, when the positioning is right, reveal my TO camo units - Sniper in a good perch, BSG at ground level l hopefully in a place the enemy just walked past. Also drop the BB somewhere all holo'ed up (suggestions? Janissaries?) , preferably somewhere in cover so he doesn't get ARO'ed to death as soon as he appears on the table edge.

So now the bad guy has enemies in front and behind him, maybe even exposed to my sniper and BSG multi-AROs.

Thoughts?

Honestly, I think you're going too complicated for a slow grow. Most full games I don't have that much mind trickery, let alone beginner 150pt games. You've got multiple TO, AD with Holo2, Holo1 and intended speculative fire going on.

That said, not knowing the scenario and if you're running classifieds, your overall tactic is not going to be as successful as you think. Speculative Fire isn't something you should be planning around, because it's so easy to miss. As you have no hackers or Forward Observers, you have no way to Spotlight enemies, so you're always going to be suffering the -6 to hit in addition to range bands. This is very debilitating and given the range bands of the light grenade launcher you'll generally be hitting on either a 9 (in the 8-16 band) or more likely 3 (in the 17+ range bands). Don't count on landing smoke where you want.

Then, because you're wasting a whole turn castled up firing incredibly inaccurate smoke grenades around, they will have a great opportunity to spend a turn grabbing objectives (if you're using any) or just setting up overlapping ARO fields for when you emerge from your castle.

For early games, I suggest dropping the fancy plans and just making a solid list that can support itself. However, there's so many parts of this list I'd personally change. I'd drop the Tuaregs at 150pts. You're not going to need TO at that low points, and if your opponent brings MSV2's, you'll really feel the losses when they get killed. Use that 60 points to bring some more cheaper models. Another couple of Rifle Ghulam and something a bit tougher as a point man, like an Odalisque. Unfortunately, I don't know what you have access to or are willing to spend, so it's a big hard to try to suggest alternatives.

OK so I have revised my list based on some of your feedback.

Yes, you are right, my list has lots of head-screwery. That is very much on purpose. I wanted that to be the theme of my Haqq force, as it seemed like a lot of fun. That being said, I still want to have decent amount of firepower.

So. To wit: Here is the revised list:


GHULAM Lieutenant (R+LS)
GHULAM Doctor plus (R + LS)
NASMAT remote
NASMAT remote
MUYIB (R + LGL) (normal + smoke ammo)
NAFFATUN (R + HF)
HAFZA (HRL, Assault Pistol)
BASHI BAZOUK (Combi rifle + e-mauler)
TUAREG (sniper rifle, AP mines)
GHULAM (Forward Observer) (R + LS)

Basically, I got rid of the Tuareg with the shotgun and replaced him with a naffatun, a Ghulam, and a NASMAT. With 2 Nasmats I can keep my doctor under total cover and get good coverage on the soldiers. The Naffatun is a good back-field guard, and the Ghulam is an order monkey + the always-useful rifle. Plus, as I had one point left over, I upgraded him to a FO (for no extra SWC, woo hoo); I figure I can always try to use him to blind someone or illuminate a target for the LGL.

That still preserves most of the trickery of the list, while still enhancing its firepower significantly. I don't have too many points-sink units there except for the Tuareg sniper.

As for models available, I have a pretty good variety. The Haqq, HB, and QK starter boxes, also some az'rael, the remotes, and a few other pieces.

That's better. The Ghulam FO can push buttons if you're playing a button pushing scenario, and can score some Classifieds. The extra Nasmat lets gives the Doctor another bot to move around, but is a bit redundant since the doctor can only control one at a time. I used the double Nasmat with a Ghulam Doc for a long time but ended up dropping one Nasmat because one always got left behind. Naffatuns are always good - no one expects a HFT shot from something so cheap.

Though if you have the QK starter available, I'd really consider getting the Odalisque Spitfire in there. You're still lacking a point man, something tougher than usual to take the lead and move into the enemy killing things. With ARM 2, NWI, either Sixth Sense L1 or a 360 Visor and the mid ranged Spitfire, the Odalisque is perfect for this. It's also got i-Kohl L3 if some uppity CC model decides to try and stick her. But considering her points, you'd likely need to replace the Muyib LGL

Another point is you have the Combi Rifle Bashi. He's rather pricey for a throwaway assault piece that will usually deploy fairly close to the enemy. The SMG profile might suit the role better, and costs 5 points less.

Overall, I'd suggest changing the Bashi to the SMG to free up much needed points at this low point level. Drop the second Nasmat, and drop the Muyib LGL. Replace the Muyib LGL with the Odalisque Spitfire.

This list plays more aggressively, but retains some of the mind tricks. You've got an Lt shell game with 2 Ghulam Rifle Lt possibilities (the Doctor will give itself away when it moves the Nasmat), a TO sniper which can be anywhere, a holo 2 AD unit coming from a flank and a HRL that can disguise as another Ghulam Rifle (proxy the Daylami Rifle from the HB starter, no one will really care) which ups that shell game to 3 until they eat a HRL to the face. It's a bit short on orders if you deploy the Tuareg in Hidden Deployment since you've also got an Irregular AD unit, so if you go second you'll likely be on 4 Regular Orders which will hurt. But deploying the Tuareg as a TO marker instead of Hidden Deployment will help alleviate that.

OK, just had my first gamer last night with this list. Here's a brief review.

It was against Tohaa, 150 point / 3.0 SVP limit. He set up with a fireteam of 3 (Sakiel?) and a CH camo marker on the table, and that was it. I set up with 3 Ghulam infantry on the table rifle + lt shotgun (actually one was FO, one was doctor, one was lieutenant). One Naffatun with HFT, and one 'Daylami" (actually a holo-ed Hafza with HRL). Then for my withheld figure I put the Odalisque with spitfire in cover, as close as possible to his camo marker. he went and moved up his link team, and my LT got an ARO and took out one of the link team members. He used the rest of his orders to move up the camo marker. In my turn I went fully aggro with the Odalisque, trying to ferret out the camo marker. Ran up to it around a corner, went to do a Discover on it, and totally forgot about the "engage" ARO option. So he revealed as some kind of super-nasty CC monster (edit: IGAO) and engaged my odalisque. She did better than I expected in CC; it took him the next two turns and four orders to take her out.

In his next turn he revealed two TO camo sniper-ish units (Clipsos), one minelayer right in my deployment zone, right in the middle of a bunch of my units, and one atop a tower in the middle of the table. I revealed my Taureg to snipe the Clipsos but she made her armor roll (with 0 armor!) I took a risk and activated my naffatun to flame the clipsos. that took care of the clipsos but it did set off the mine she laid, but fortunately the naffatun made his armor roll. He then went on to nail the IGAO with his rifle, taking that one out too. I then declared a coordinated order to have 4 people shoot the Clipsos sniper, taking him out.

In his next turn turn he advanced his troops up and also had a Gao-Tarsos walk on into my deployment zone, getting a lucky shot against my Taureg, taking him out. He also moved up his remaining 2 Sakiels, and we traded some shots.

Last turn, more shots were exchanged, I took out one more Sakiel and got a hit on the Gao-Tarsos but he didnt die due to symbiont armor. I walked on my Bashi Bazouk to take the enemy backfield zone, moved up a couple more models, and it was over.

It was a "Frontline" game, and so after we added up all the points I had pulled off a minor victory, 5-3. Not bad for only my third game of Infinity, ever.

Now I need to work on my next list.

Thoughts:

Yes, the odalisque was a pretty useful unit. Too bad she never got to fire off that Spitfire.

The Taureg sniper was a good inclusion but he got unlucky with the rolls and didnt wind up contributing much.

The naffatun with HFT totally rocked! I got lucky with a few armor rolls with him but I think he took out about 5x his points value in enemy units.

I definitely could have used a second nasmat remote, if only to extend the range of my doctor. When my Taureg went down I could have healed him if I had had a Nasmat or a doctor nearby.

OK, thanks for your help. On to the next list.

I'm guessing the Igao took 4 orders to win due to the -9 from i-Kohl? Like I said, it's a pretty great CC deterrant. Units like the Igao really should be killing things the turn they get into CC. She will impress you more when she gets to fire that Spitfire.

Overall that's a rough matchup though. A fireteam of Sakiel at that points level is nasty since they're all effectively 2 wounds. However, as it seems you found out, they don't like fire. The Naffatun would have been no1 on his gak list.

The next game is 200 points / 4 SWC and Annihilation (low tier). So, no objectives, no trickery, just a straight-ahead slugfest.

Here's the first draft of my army, via armycode: CwBgjAPgTCIQogZwMYAIAyBTAhgcwK6aoAS2AjmajCFRGAKQDM49YIAbAKz0CEDzDNu0a9+LISL5NxHKL0YiFIsGAAccngqZaV63nOZyhATn3SjHU334rWK9voeMoDqKoDsDnlGBMfd4FV5EG0QlXduAAFooA===

Esc League Haqq 200 2
──────────────────────────────────────────────────

GHULAM Lieutenant Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12)
GHULAM (Forward Observer) Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13)
GHULAM (Forward Observer) Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13)
GHULAM Doctor Plus (MediKit) Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 16)
NASMAT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
NASMAT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
NAFFATÛN Rifle + Heavy Flamethrower / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13)
NAFFATÛN Rifle + Heavy Flamethrower / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13)
TUAREG Sniper Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 33)
HAFZA Heavy Rocket Launcher / Assault Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 18)
ODALISQUE Submachine gun, Contender, Nanopulser / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 22)
AZRAIL AP HMG


So, very little trickery, just a lot of firepower and resiliency. Ghulams to bulk out the force, two FOs because I had two extra points and the upgrade from regular Ghulam to FO is only one point; two HFT Naffatuns just because the one did so awesomely last game; the Tuareg sniper for the surprise value and the chance to potentially catch advancing enemy troops in a multi-ARO situation; and the Hafza, Odalisqua, and Azrail for the sheer firepower. I didn't give the Oda a Spitfire because of the high SWC cost and I figure the Azrail with the AP HMG has that angle covered; instead, she'll go hunting mid-tier enemies.

What do you think?

Oh oh...

mboehm wrote:
In his next turn he revealed two TO camo sniper-ish units (Clipsos), one minelayer right in my deployment zone, right in the middle of a bunch of my units, and one atop a tower in the middle of the table.

- Infiltrating over the halfway line requires a PH Roll during, so you're always going to know if it's being attempted.
- Infiltrators can never deploy inside the enemy Deployment Zone.

mboehm wrote:
In his next turn turn he advanced his troops up and also had a Gao-Tarsos walk on into my deployment zone, getting a lucky shot against my Taureg, taking him out.

Just to make sure things were played right:

- Using AD level 2 to let the trooper walk on instead of rolling to land in a template area cannot be done into the enemy Deployment Zone. There is an exception in one of the ITS missions (and for a specific Ariadna character), but Frontline isn't that mission.
- Arriving via AD is an Entire Order skill, so anyone with LoF is going to get an unopposed ARO when the drop trooper arrives.

You was robbed.

 IJW wrote:
Oh oh...

mboehm wrote:
In his next turn he revealed two TO camo sniper-ish units (Clipsos), one minelayer right in my deployment zone, right in the middle of a bunch of my units, and one atop a tower in the middle of the table.

- Infiltrating over the halfway line requires a PH Roll during, so you're always going to know if it's being attempted.
- Infiltrators can never deploy inside the enemy Deployment Zone.

Yeah he rolled for both clipsos' infiltrations and, apparently, failed with the sniper but succeeded with the minelayer. What I didn't catch was that the sniper clipsos was supposed to deploy along his own long table edge because of failing the infil roll. The minelayer clipsos may have been legal, just barely outside of my deployment zone. Basically there was a low wall that was the very front edge of my deployment zone and I had a naffatun taking cover behind it; the clipsos popped up right on the other side of that wall. So that might have been legal.

 IJW wrote:

mboehm wrote:
In his next turn turn he advanced his troops up and also had a Gao-Tarsos walk on into my deployment zone, getting a lucky shot against my Taureg, taking him out.

Just to make sure things were played right:

- Using AD level 2 to let the trooper walk on instead of rolling to land in a template area cannot be done into the enemy Deployment Zone. There is an exception in one of the ITS missions (and for a specific Ariadna character), but Frontline isn't that mission.
- Arriving via AD is an Entire Order skill, so anyone with LoF is going to get an unopposed ARO when the drop trooper arrives.

You was robbed.

OK yeah walking on in my dep zone was something I didnt catch. But the other part was actually legit. He came on as a full-order action, and my taureg was facing the middle of the battlefield so the gao-tarsos was out of his LOF. I failed my 'turn around' roll too. So he then put another order into the GT to have it walk forward and then shoot me. Interestingly, though, this had the GT walk into my LOF, giving me an ARO. Didn't help, though; my Taureg missed and then got splattered by the boarding shotgun.