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I have a problem. 40k is just not doing it for me anymore. I have been playing 40k for 13 years and I have four armies; 6000pts of Tyranids, 4000pts of Imp. Guard, 1500pts of Inquisition, and 1500pts of Storm Troopers. Just so people know I'm not new at this. You should also know that I am not a competitive player. I play for the enjoyment of the fluff and dynamics of armies interacting and epic scenes I imagine in my mind while playing.

I consciously reached this conclusion last night. It was my first game (1500pts) of my Guard vs the new Genestealer Cults. Maelstrom mission and the cults won by some amount; it doesn't really matter. Let me say now that the Genestealer Cults look very fun. The codex is full of interesting units with diverse roles. Their psychic powers are flexible and useful without being OP. The Cult Ambush rule is very fun and quite powerful if used with forethought. Let me also note that I could've designed a list that would have likely won the game last night. This post is not a whine about OP Cults and poor Guard.

As the game progressed, I became more frustrated and a bit sad. I looked across the table at a fun, flexible, powerful, and interesting army. I looked at my Guard, an army that have spent thousands of hours building, painting, and even naming every single model, and saw something completely different. I saw an army with a codex composed of mediocre to weak units, little to no synergy and what is there is weak and unlikely to have an impact. An force with an army-wide rule, the orders system, that while interesting but badly outdated and weak.

I also compared the Cults to my 'Nids and reached a sad conclusion. Outside of Flyrant spam, Tyranids cannot field armies that would be effective against Cults. The Cult is everything Tyranids ought to be and more. I started a repainting project with my 'Nids last December and am about halfway through and I don't think I can finish. I've my two painted Flyrants and I can't help but think that any other models I paint are just wasted effort. None of them will behave in interesting, fluffy, reliable ways in the game. These units will constantly struggle against their own codex's special rule (Instinctive Behavior), their own inflated points cost (45pt Pyrovores), and their own weak, sometimes nonsensical upgrades and abilities (10pt S2 flamer, Sonic Screech on the Harpy).

In short I realized that I cannot play my armies in ways I enjoy and find interesting. If I do play that way, the game quickly devolves into frustration and annoyance. In order to play a more dynamic and interactive game I am forced to spam units (Flyrants, Wyverns) in ways that break my immersion and neglect those units I enjoy (Carnifex, Gaunts, Warriors, Guardsmen, Sentinels, Storm Troopers).

Let me end with an example from Age of Sigmar. I've played since the game was released I have enjoyed every minute of it. I find I'm never frustrated at the end of a game. My two armies, Lizardmen and Tomb Kings, were both purchased after the release of AoS based on the rule of "what is cool and what would I like to paint". I find I have no issues playing, winning, and enjoying with these armies because every unit does something fun and interesting. In 14 months, I have painted (in General's Handbook points) about 3000pts of Lizardmen, 1500pts of Tomb Kings, 4000pts of Ironjawz and Savage Orcs (for a friend of mine).

The more I play both these games, the more I wish GW would just 'clean slate' all of 40k and start over for 8th Ed. Maybe then I could have back the 40k I used to love.

PS: One final note of frustration. The game last night, between two veteran players, took 4.5 hours to finish. That is longer than an 8 player, 4000pt AoS mega-battle (with 1 totally new player) that I played in a about a month ago. The game takes too damn long!

I'm in no way on the same veteran level as you but I do share some of your feelings.
I still have that itch for 40K, I've had it since 1998 when I first played it (long break after that). But every time I actually get to the playing part I somehow lose that feeling. I love the fluff, I love the idea of everything 40K but the actual game doesn't really do it for me anymore.

I too have started with AoS and I have no units that I don't feel can contribute even if it's not always in the most competitive way.

My hope is that 8th edition will be a mild version of AoS. Cut the bloat, bunch together a lot of different named rules that do the same and look at each faction and reconsider everyones synergy.

All we can do is hope!

I honestly believe that AOS is the better game right now. It has its flaws, like all GW games, but it's a lot more balanced and fresh and easier to jump into than 40k. A ton less bloat.

One thing I'm considering doing is looking at dropping down to 1,000 points, with some as of yet undecided restrictions (although 100% no superheavies), played on a 4x4 table. I think lower point games are a lot more interesting than these big clusterfeth games of 40k with tons of huge things on the table. I actually think 1k on a 4x4 table would work great for AOS too, and provide a lot of cool themed armies and narrative ideas.

While there are not many games which will match the size that 40K has come to require (ie. crap tons of huge models or loads of infantry) there are plenty of rule sets people are using as alternatives with 40K.

That, or switch it up and play something else. No shame/harm in admitting that you're wandering or that 40K isn't amazing. I "like" 40K but I sure as hell won't play it now days, short of playing an old version.

Still enjoy the fluff etc.

My gaming group collectively has tens of thousands of points in about a dozen different armies. I started playing in 1996.

We haven't played a game of 40k since 7th edition, maybe even a bit before. I don't miss it. 40k has never been a good game, but it's unplayable at this point. It isn't worth the effort when there are so many better games out there.

AoS-ing the 40k rules isn't the answer either. There needs to be a concerted effort to:

slim down the rules

modernize the game

focus on mechanics that support the correct "scale" as well as "feel"

AoS really only accomplished the first thing on that list for Fantasy.

A full reboot is something many are hoping to see with 40k 8E, the sense that the game has just become too much of a mess is fairly widespread. Too many balance issues, too much randomness, too much extraneous junk, and too much time taken up by ultimately pointless mechanics.

I dont want to see an AoS style reboot, but a reboot of some sort restarting the game from scratch is definitely needed.

Wayniac wrote:
I honestly believe that AOS is the better game right now.

The remedy to insanity should not be mediocrity.

The guard does not feel "right" now because the people that have written the codex fixed the problems of 5th edition guard, when the 5th edition guard was barely enough for 6th and is not enough for 7th.

Is just the designers not caring or not being competent.

There are many, many more table top miniatures games out there then what Games Workshop has to offer.

If you are willing and have an open mind, and you don't scoff at everything non-GW, you can try:

Warmachine/Hordes (Mk III just game out, and it's a fantastic time to jump into the game- Steampunk heavy magic robot vs. robot action)
Malefaux (diceless, skirmish based, small fantasy steam punk game)
Guildball (Another steampunk skirmish based game)
Kings of War (Spiritual successor to Warhammer Fantasy- heck, you'll probably find rules for all the ex-fantasy armies)
Infinity (complicated, but rewarding hard sci-fi skirmish game)

If you go prepainted, you can play:
Wings of War (WWI and WWII aerial dog fighting using the Flight Path Maneuver System)
X-Wing (very solid, competitive game based on the Flight Path Maneuver system of Wing of War using the Star Wars franchise)
Star Trek Attack Wing (Flight Path Maneuver System, Star Trek franchise)

You can also get into the more "fringe" games that not many people play, but they are out there:
Heavy Gear Blitz (Fast paced mech combat, and new edition just game out with all plastic mechs)
Drop Zone Commander (10mm sci-fi war game)
Drop Fleet Commander (Fleet vs. fleet sci-fi)
Dystopian Wars (steampunk naval and land warfare)
Firestorm Armada (deep space fleet vs. fleet using Dystopian Wars rules mechanic)
HALO Fleet Battles (fleet vs. fleet in HALO universe)
HALO Battles (ground based battles in HALO universe)
Alphastrike (Battletech Light; uses same rules, just gets rid of a lot of extraneous stuff; focuses on armies of mechs instead of 1-2)

There is always Old School, and these you may have trouble finding, but there are still groups out there that play:
Battletech (yup, it's still around and still kicking)
Star Fleet Battles (if you like book keeping and accounting, this is your game)
Battle Fleet Gothic (an oldie but a goodie from GW; the rules are all free online now, and there are several groups that are keeping it alive)
Mordheim (See BFG)
Full Thrust (awesome fighter vs. fighter sci fi)

This list is far from complete, and those are just the games I can think of off the top of my head. Want even more choices? Take a tour into the board game section of your game store. There has been a Renascence of Board Gaming and you will be surprised at what is available. Finally, there is always the Card Flopping Route (not recommended; it's like going to the Dark Side )

We are in a Golden Age of gaming. Never before have we had so many opportunities and choices for games. No player should ever be complaining about how board they are playing table top games when so many options are available. No one is playing in your area? Perfect opportunity to introduce your area to a new game. And who cares if it fizzles out or everyone stops playing after a couple months and plays a different game. It's fun to learn new rules, explore a new game, and see how other companies make games. Even if it's a stinker/bomb and you hate it, it just might reignite the flame you had for 40K.

I'd say you should either take a break from 40K or negotiate smaller battles.

If I was part of your crew I might try different play styles with your army though. Sometimes one can break a rut by trying new strategies. I feel like IG vs. GSC ought to have some really fun possibilities.

DON'T SELL YOUR STUFF!

Hang on, did you say 4.5 hours for a 1500 point battle? Did you also have a 3 course dinner?

The malaise arrived in our gaming club when the 7th ed got released. Besides occasional friendly games there are much more activities in WMH.

I dont understand why rules are still in print for these games. Its a value comparing system, it needs to be continually updated just like multiplayer online games. Putting the rules in print makes the choice of updating alot of rules via online faq at a later date basically invalidate the purchase of the print edition anyway.

Put the rules online for a paid subscription and rebalance everything accordingly. Use update notices to tell people what has changed and store the update notices on the app so people can quickly review them at any time. Hire a team to look at scenarios and unit costing vs. Power level and, y'know, maybe even playtest a bit and actually balance the damn game. Most of the over or undercosted models are obvious anyways. Wraithknight. Thousand sons. Leman russ tanks. scatterbikes. Riptides. Anything in a terminator suit.

To clarify, im not looking for 100% balance. I simply know it can be alot better than it is now while still remaining interesting and variant, and to me it seems like the imbalance we have now is at least in large part a symptom of releasing rules in print. The other side of it is "standard point level" for a game. It makes people build their models in certain ways to hit a certain points level, and it doesnt allow a whole lot of flexibility in terms of rules changes that are represented on models like weaponry.