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Hey folks,

i am running Necrons Decurion Detachment and there is an option for Reclamation Legion to add Lychguards + Night Scythe. Can they be embarked in Night Scythe and put into reserves?

Does it look interesting if Night Scythe with Lychguard and overflord+solar staff will disembark, use solar staff and then crush opponents heads?

Is there a reason that they can't?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Is there a reason that they can't?

 CrownAxe wrote:
Is there a reason that they can't?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Is there a reason that they can't?

I mean did anyone tried this?

They CAN take night scythes, and CAN use them from reserves, but when they come down they can't immediately assault. This leaves them open a turn for shooting. Granted, the unit is tough as nails so it probably won't outright die, but there are better options. Taking the night shroud relic can make the wielder and his unit re-deepstrike where they want. While this isn't as pinpoint at a night scythe, this can be done turn 1 for a turn 2 assault. Best you could do from a night scythe is a possible landing turn 2 and a charge turn 3.

Mr ghoti wrote:
They CAN take night scythes, and CAN use them from reserves, but when they come down they can't immediately assault. This leaves them open a turn for shooting. Granted, the unit is tough as nails so it probably won't outright die, but there are better options. Taking the night shroud relic can make the wielder and his unit re-deepstrike where they want. While this isn't as pinpoint at a night scythe, this can be done turn 1 for a turn 2 assault. Best you could do from a night scythe is a possible landing turn 2 and a charge turn 3.

This why they need guy with solar staff.

Deep strike is nice but i bit random. There is no control of scatter die here and they potentially can by scattered too far away

The big downside of putting anything in a vehicle in reserves is you don't have control over when that unit comes onto the table. For an assault unit that will often mean that unit does nothing to the game state until turn 4. That's terrible.

When competitive lists have used Lychstars they have almost always used the Ghostwalk Mantle and/or the Veil of Darkness. You can even have 2 units of Lychguard, one with Obyron and the other with Zandrekh and an IC with the Veil. You deep strike the one with Zandrekh first so the Obyron one has protected deep strike (as long as he deep strikes within 12" of Zandrekh)

The unit that pairs best with Night Scythes is the Triarch Praetorian. They can shoot the turn they disembark so you get immediate use out of them. You can have them shoot and assault the next turn or even jump back into the Night Scythe taxi.

col_impact wrote:
The big downside of putting anything in a vehicle in reserves is you don't have control over when that unit comes onto the table. For an assault unit that will often mean that unit does nothing to the game state until turn 4. That's terrible.

When competitive lists have used Lychstars they have almost always used the Ghostwalk Mantle and/or the Veil of Darkness. You can even have 2 units of Lychguard, one with Obyron and the other with Zandrekh and an IC with the Veil. You deep strike the one with Zandrekh first so the Obyron one has protected deep strike (as long as he deep strikes within 12" of Zandrekh)

The unit that pairs best with Night Scythes is the Triarch Praetorian. They can shoot the turn they disembark so you get immediate use out of them. You can have them shoot and assault the next turn or even jump back into the Night Scythe taxi.

In Dec Detachment there is only way to bring Triarch Praetorians is from Judicator Battalion right?
Also to be competitive should i take shields for Lychguard?

 ArtyomTrityak wrote:


In Dec Detachment there is only way to bring Triarch Praetorians is from Judicator Battalion right?

Correct.
I should point out though that if you playing in the ITC format, it's easy to self-ally and bring in a single unit of Praetorians that way. Cheap way to get a Destroyer Lord as well.

 ArtyomTrityak wrote:

Also to be competitive should i take shields for Lychguard?

Almost always yes. Basically you use the shields to make the unit nigh indestructible and add ICs with warscythes to make the unit killy.
The best IC to throw in with the shields is Orikan. Make sure to bring him. He boosts the 3++ of the shields to 3++ re-roll 1s.

Does this mean that Night Scythe is useless? What usecases are ok for it? BTW can it start not in reserves but in field?

No need to put Praetorians in Night Scythes,
As jet infantry they come with Deep Strike already, plus they're fast enough that they can just run up the board.

Lychguard, on the other hand, are slow, and nothing can be done to mitigate it. A smart opponent will just avoid them for most of the game, resulting in wasted points that could have gone into something more useful.

 skoffs wrote:
No need to put Praetorians in Night Scythes,
As jet infantry they come with Deep Strike already, plus they're fast enough that they can just run up the board.

Lychguard, on the other hand, are slow, and nothing can be done to mitigate it. A smart opponent will just avoid them for most of the game, resulting in wasted points that could have gone into something more useful.

I line Lychguards and Praetorians models, don't have them yet, thing to figure out how to play them. Have default Reclamation + harvest + obelisk.

Was thinking about getting Monolith (it will not scatter within 12 of Obelisk) but i still should roll for reserves for it...


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col_impact wrote:

Almost always yes. Basically you use the shields to make the unit nigh indestructible and add ICs with warscythes to make the unit killy.
The best IC to throw in with the shields is Orikan. Make sure to bring him. He boosts the 3++ of the shields to 3++ re-roll 1s.

I don't see an option how i can bring Orikan in Dec Detachment, only ally

 ArtyomTrityak wrote:
Does this mean that Night Scythe is useless? What usecases are ok for it? BTW can it start not in reserves but in field?

Imho, NightScythe is best to transport a large unit of Warrior or Immortals. Necron foot soilders are too slow and most of their weapons are 24inch Rapid fire only. So if you faced a long range army, they can just sit at a corner 30+ inches from you, shooting you all day while you spend 2 or more turns to get into range. With Night Scythe, your blob Warrior or Immortal can might get into double tap range T2 to Gauss them to death

I think the Lychguard is better attached to Overlord with Warsycthe and Veil of Darkness, teleport T1, run in shooting phase, and move again and charge T2.
Or if you faces off a choppy focused army like CSM Nurgle Spawn spam list, KDK, BA Death Company, SW TWC or Wuflen, you might just want your Lychguard to baby-sit your gunlines. Your opponent will come to you so no need to concern mobility.

The trick to making lychguard work is to keep it basic and cheap, because they are a gamble. Most of the time they will be used for area denial rather than as a direct melee threat, because few units can win in a timely manner against them and there are much softer/more profitable targets in the army. So you plant them on something valuable and let your opponent decide to let you have it or dedicate a lot of effort to dislodge them.

The night scythe doesn't really add much to this profile, unless you are really bent on getting an objective way in enemy territory, and then wraiths are a better choice. So I'd say probably not to Lychguard + Night scythe.

Neophyte2012 wrote:

Imho, NightScythe is best to transport a large unit of Warrior or Immortals. Necron foot soilders are too slow and most of their weapons are 24inch Rapid fire only. So if you faced a long range army, they can just sit at a corner 30+ inches from you, shooting you all day while you spend 2 or more turns to get into range. With Night Scythe, your blob Warrior or Immortal can might get into double tap range T2 to Gauss them to death

But if warriors / Immortals embarked in Night Scythe they will arrive randomly turn 2-4 depends on deep strike roll right?

 ArtyomTrityak wrote:

Neophyte2012 wrote:

Imho, NightScythe is best to transport a large unit of Warrior or Immortals. Necron foot soilders are too slow and most of their weapons are 24inch Rapid fire only. So if you faced a long range army, they can just sit at a corner 30+ inches from you, shooting you all day while you spend 2 or more turns to get into range. With Night Scythe, your blob Warrior or Immortal can might get into double tap range T2 to Gauss them to death

But if warriors / Immortals embarked in Night Scythe they will arrive randomly turn 2-4 depends on deep strike roll right?

Yes, it "only" has a 2/3 chances of coming in until T2, and a 8/9 chances of coming in T2 or T3, But it is still better than walking upfield for 2-3 turns, in the movement phase rolling an only 3 or 4 inches move range due to difficult terrain, then in the shooting phase running only 1 inch when desperately trying to get into optimal range next turn. AND all the while getting shots all way long.

Neophyte2012 wrote:

 ArtyomTrityak wrote:

Neophyte2012 wrote:

Imho, NightScythe is best to transport a large unit of Warrior or Immortals. Necron foot soilders are too slow and most of their weapons are 24inch Rapid fire only. So if you faced a long range army, they can just sit at a corner 30+ inches from you, shooting you all day while you spend 2 or more turns to get into range. With Night Scythe, your blob Warrior or Immortal can might get into double tap range T2 to Gauss them to death

But if warriors / Immortals embarked in Night Scythe they will arrive randomly turn 2-4 depends on deep strike roll right?

Yes, it "only" has a 2/3 chances of coming in until T2, and a 8/9 chances of coming in T2 or T3, But it is still better than walking upfield for 2-3 turns, in the movement phase rolling an only 3 or 4 inches move range due to difficult terrain, then in the shooting phase running only 1 inch when desperately trying to get into optimal range next turn. AND all the while getting shots all way long.

Your strategy is viable, but isn't it altogether better to pay 3 ppm to give your immortals a jinking jet bike and twin linking and 2 ppm more to give them ignore cover?

col_impact wrote:

Neophyte2012 wrote:

 ArtyomTrityak wrote:

Neophyte2012 wrote:

Imho, NightScythe is best to transport a large unit of Warrior or Immortals. Necron foot soilders are too slow and most of their weapons are 24inch Rapid fire only. So if you faced a long range army, they can just sit at a corner 30+ inches from you, shooting you all day while you spend 2 or more turns to get into range. With Night Scythe, your blob Warrior or Immortal can might get into double tap range T2 to Gauss them to death

But if warriors / Immortals embarked in Night Scythe they will arrive randomly turn 2-4 depends on deep strike roll right?

Yes, it "only" has a 2/3 chances of coming in until T2, and a 8/9 chances of coming in T2 or T3, But it is still better than walking upfield for 2-3 turns, in the movement phase rolling an only 3 or 4 inches move range due to difficult terrain, then in the shooting phase running only 1 inch when desperately trying to get into optimal range next turn. AND all the while getting shots all way long.

Your strategy is viable, but isn't it altogether better to pay 3 ppm to give your immortals a jinking jet bike and twin linking and 2 ppm more to give them ignore cover?

I agree with this. Tomb Blade is ten times better than Immortals. Mainly for solving that mobility problem as well as +1T.
But talking about the NightScythe, the flyer itself is Ok-ish for even Necron standard, and I just think that using it to mitigate the footslog problem of the slow Necron foot soilders who you are bound to take a anyway (min 25 of them in Decrion). You will want to get those Gauss salvo firing as quick as you possibly can.

 ArtyomTrityak wrote:
have obelisk.

Was thinking about getting Monolith

Heads up: those are both pretty lame units.
Use them in fun games, but if you want to play in a competitive situation it may be best to use something else.

 ArtyomTrityak wrote:
I don't see an option how i can bring Orikan in Dec Detachment, only ally

I assume you're familiar with the Royal Court formation?

 skoffs wrote:

 ArtyomTrityak wrote:
have obelisk.

Was thinking about getting Monolith

Heads up: those are both pretty lame units.
Use them in fun games, but if you want to play in a competitive situation it may be best to use something else.

 ArtyomTrityak wrote:
I don't see an option how i can bring Orikan in Dec Detachment, only ally

I assume you're familiar with the Royal Court formation?

The Monolith is lame, but the usefulness of the Obelisk will be dependent on its firing arc for the Tesla Spheres. GW didn't give a concrete answer for it and we need further clarification.

The worst thing I can say about the monolith is there are better ways to spend the points. It's hard to say it's over cost at 200 points, having a 24" battle cannon, 14 armor on all sides, IWND, ignoring crew shaken and stunned, and teleporting friendly units to it. However it suffers from big effing target syndrome, and since it's the only vehicle you'll run, it will take alot of anti-vehicle fire.

The obelisk on the other hand, is fairly awful as LoW go. Against some comps it can do very well, like space marine metal box spam, but that is not a comp we need help with. A 1 in 6 chance to kill each flyer/immobilize each skimmer within 24 isn't bad, but armor saves means it sucks against jet bikes. S7 Tesla on the other hand is kind of a solution looking for a problem, at s7 it's not reliable for anti-vehicle work (to many av 14), and with no ap value it's not so good at anti-infantry work either. If it were str 8, it could pop vehicles like popcorn with the number of attacks it has, if it had a mediocre AP value like say 4, it would get a lot of use as an anti-infantry platform making multiple large units of infantry disappear a turn. If it had skyfire it would have a role, but instead, it's just kind of their, costing half again as much as a monolith, taking a LoW slot, and hitting way below it's points.

Too many AV14? I literally stopped skimming there.

 skoffs wrote:

I assume you're familiar with the Royal Court formation?

I did, didn't see him in but now i do, thanks!


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 Grimgold wrote:
The worst thing I can say about the monolith is there are better ways to spend the points. It's hard to say it's over cost at 200 points, having a 24" battle cannon, 14 armor on all sides, IWND, ignoring crew shaken and stunned, and teleporting friendly units to it. However it suffers from big effing target syndrome, and since it's the only vehicle you'll run, it will take alot of anti-vehicle fire.

The only reason to get Monolyth is teleporting units but price for this is too high

Some quick notes:

Nemesor Zahndrekh is your reserves manipulation. Picking the re-rollable reserve roll turn two, should get your Flyers/deepstrikers in.

Night Scythe + Triarch Praetorians = 18-24" flying on, 6" normal moving, 12" shooting or 25-36" fly on, 6" normal moving + 12" snap shooting.

Judicator Battalion gives the Night Scythe the re-rolls hit/wound/pen to the target.

(corrected for missed rule, still a large deployment range)

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Too many AV14? I literally stopped skimming there.

I'm sorry if you didn't understand my point, let me try explaining it another way, if there is a single av 14 the ob is effing useless. If you are bringing it as your anti-vehicle unit, it needs to be reliably effective against vehicles, and there is a whole class of vehicles it isn't useful against, and they are not all that rare. Even against av 13 it's pretty awful, assuming you could get three arcs, you'll be lucky to get two glances. If only necrons had a way to reliably get glances on vehicles I'm sure we could skip the Ob completely, hmm..., oh yeah we have gak loads of gauss and a single 10 man warrior squad in rapid fire range is as dangerous as the Ob.

Draco765 wrote:
Some quick notes:

Nemesor Zahndrekh is your reserves manipulation. Picking the re-rollable reserve roll turn two, should get your Flyers/deepstrikers in.

Night Scythe + Triarch Praetorians = 18-24" flying on, 12" jump moving, 12" shooting or 25-36" fly on, 12" jump moving + 12" snap shooting.

Judicator Battalion gives the Night Scythe the re-rolls hit/wound/pen to the target.

Wow, that a good notes, thanks!

 Grimgold wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Too many AV14? I literally stopped skimming there.

I'm sorry if you didn't understand my point, let me try explaining it another way, if there is a single av 14 the ob is effing useless. If you are bringing it as your anti-vehicle unit, it needs to be reliably effective against vehicles, and there is a whole class of vehicles it isn't useful against, and they are not all that rare. Even against av 13 it's pretty awful, assuming you could get three arcs, you'll be lucky to get two glances. If only necrons had a way to reliably get glances on vehicles I'm sure we could skip the Ob completely, hmm..., oh yeah we have gak loads of gauss and a single 10 man warrior squad in rapid fire range is as dangerous as the Ob.

If an opponent brings AV 14 against me, its an auto-win for me. AV 14 means my warriors now have a str 8 gun AP - gun. Now that's value!

What I don't like is when an opponent brings a ton of cheap or free vehicles and a lot of msu to go along with it (all with objSec). Gauss doesn't mean much against cheap vehicles and cheap troops and Necrons lack the damage output to clear away msu quickly.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Draco765 wrote:

Night Scythe + Triarch Praetorians = 18-24" flying on, 12" jump moving, 12" shooting or 25-36" fly on, 12" jump moving + 12" snap shooting.

The Praetorians don't get their full move when they disembark

 Grimgold wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Too many AV14? I literally stopped skimming there.

I'm sorry if you didn't understand my point, let me try explaining it another way, if there is a single av 14 the ob is effing useless. If you are bringing it as your anti-vehicle unit, it needs to be reliably effective against vehicles, and there is a whole class of vehicles it isn't useful against, and they are not all that rare. Even against av 13 it's pretty awful, assuming you could get three arcs, you'll be lucky to get two glances. If only necrons had a way to reliably get glances on vehicles I'm sure we could skip the Ob completely, hmm..., oh yeah we have gak loads of gauss and a single 10 man warrior squad in rapid fire range is as dangerous as the Ob.

Everything else can handle AV14. Just because ONE thing can't handle it doesn't mean a thing.

This thing is for Rhinos and things that don't hide in Rhinos, and handles Skimmers and Flyrants too. But what will decide if it is worth running is firing arc alone. Even if it is 180, that is workable at least.