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So I'm trying to come up with a list for a tournament I'm planning on participating in next year and trying to avoid the Castellax route and go for something fun with my Ordo Reductor.

Here's what I'm playing with currently

HQ
Archmagos Reductor - 270
     Abeyant, Graviton Imploder, Cyber Familiar, 1 x Cyber-occularis, Djinn-skein, photon gauntlet

Troops
Thallax  - 150
    3 x Thallax, Multi-Melta

Thallax - 490
    9 x Thallax, 9 x heavy chainblade, Melta bombs, Ferrox

Fast Attack 
Avenger Strike Fighter - 190
     Battle servitor control, Two kraken penetrator missile

Heavy Support
Krios Venator Squadron - 300
     2 x Krios venator

Myrmidon Destructors - 385
    2 x Graviton imploder, 1 x photon thruster cannon, Triaros w/ Blessed Autosimulcra, hunter killer missile

Minotaur Artillery tank - 215
     Armoured Ceramite


I'm torn between running the Venators or an Ordo Reductor Artillery battery equipped as follows for which I would drop the upgrades on the Triaros

Ordo Reductor Artillery battery - 310
     2 x OR artillery tank, Medusa cannon, Machine spirit, siege plating


Thoughts? Suggestions?

Drop the abeyant and graviton imploder on your HQ and replace with macchinator array and photon thruster (master-crafted maybe?)
The abeyant has a bunch of negatives which are easy to forget about at this stage and can cause problems for you in-game.

The large cohort of thallax feels a bit out of place at this points level - i'd break off three of them and pay for the destructor augment for them instead of the chainblades - deepstrike them behind an enemy vehicle for lulz...

Can't comment on how well a krios venator does compared to a medusa ORAT or MORAT (as i will now call them) but i found the seige plating to be useless since the side armour is pretty weak and it doesn't take much to get round that - i don't think i've gained any tactical advantage from that when i used to take the seige plating.

Probably should've mentioned I was planning on running the magos with the myrmidons.

What are the negatives with the abeyant?

As for the thallax I've usually run two squads of 6 with mult-meltas but I feel like I'm lacking any sort of cc. Nine might be a bit much though. You're suggesting two squads of three and a squad of 6?

Give those medusa phosphex!

Mechanicum medusas come with phosphex for free and can freely switch between the two ammunition types, unlike Legion ones.

So no need.

 Sol Invictus wrote:
Probably should've mentioned I was planning on running the magos with the myrmidons.

What are the negatives with the abeyant?

As for the thallax I've usually run two squads of 6 with mult-meltas but I feel like I'm lacking any sort of cc. Nine might be a bit much though. You're suggesting two squads of three and a squad of 6?

Ah, didn't appreciate that. well, maybe the abeyant makes more sense then.
The abeyant gives the hardened armour rule which allows you to reroll failed armour saves against blast and template weapons but also makes it 'very bulky' as well as -1 to all charge, run and sweeping advance moves - i recommended the change on the basis that if he was on his own, and the array making him T6 and avoiding ID from S10 weapons would have been more useful than an extra wound and IWND.
The -1 to sweeping advance moves affects when your guy is sweeping something as well as if something is trying to sweep him, so it's a potential liability because mechanicum HQ's are only stubborn and have a good chance at losing a combat - especially if legion-specific rules are in effect to do with combat resolution(emperors children); they count a draw as a win as well as having buffs to sweeping advances y'see..

The reason i would take a 9 unit cohort is because i'd be looking to force the enemy to kill three whole thallax (9 wounds!) before they take a leadership test, but the value of that varies from person to person and ymmv. Personally, i don't feel like it's that crucial.

Yeah, it's nice to have a small cohort to keep your DZ clear of infiltrators: the MM cohort are anti-tank deepstrike-fodder i assume?

Unit1126PLL wrote:Mechanicum medusas come with phosphex for free and can freely switch between the two ammunition types, unlike Legion ones.

So no need.

So I've seen it argued both ways. How'd you come to your conclusion? I'd like to be able to back it up when people undoubtedly argue the other way.

SirDonlad wrote:
Ah, didn't appreciate that. well, maybe the abeyant makes more sense then.
The abeyant gives the hardened armour rule which allows you to reroll failed armour saves against blast and template weapons but also makes it 'very bulky' as well as -1 to all charge, run and sweeping advance moves - i recommended the change on the basis that if he was on his own, and the array making him T6 and avoiding ID from S10 weapons would have been more useful than an extra wound and IWND.
The -1 to sweeping advance moves affects when your guy is sweeping something as well as if something is trying to sweep him, so it's a potential liability because mechanicum HQ's are only stubborn and have a good chance at losing a combat - especially if legion-specific rules are in effect to do with combat resolution(emperors children); they count a draw as a win as well as having buffs to sweeping advances y'see..

The reason i would take a 9 unit cohort is because i'd be looking to force the enemy to kill three whole thallax (9 wounds!) before they take a leadership test, but the value of that varies from person to person and ymmv. Personally, i don't feel like it's that crucial.

Yeah, it's nice to have a small cohort to keep your DZ clear of infiltrators: the MM cohort are anti-tank deepstrike-fodder i assume?

Now I'm thinking the abeyant and the machinator array would be fun but I'll have to play with the idea. I'll probably shrink the cc thallax squad down to 6 and make another squad of 3.

I'll put up a revised list soon.

Thanks for the comments, guys.

 Sol Invictus wrote:

Unit1126PLL wrote:Mechanicum medusas come with phosphex for free and can freely switch between the two ammunition types, unlike Legion ones.

So no need.

So I've seen it argued both ways. How'd you come to your conclusion? I'd like to be able to back it up when people undoubtedly argue the other way.

SirDonlad wrote:
Ah, didn't appreciate that. well, maybe the abeyant makes more sense then.
The abeyant gives the hardened armour rule which allows you to reroll failed armour saves against blast and template weapons but also makes it 'very bulky' as well as -1 to all charge, run and sweeping advance moves - i recommended the change on the basis that if he was on his own, and the array making him T6 and avoiding ID from S10 weapons would have been more useful than an extra wound and IWND.
The -1 to sweeping advance moves affects when your guy is sweeping something as well as if something is trying to sweep him, so it's a potential liability because mechanicum HQ's are only stubborn and have a good chance at losing a combat - especially if legion-specific rules are in effect to do with combat resolution(emperors children); they count a draw as a win as well as having buffs to sweeping advances y'see..

The reason i would take a 9 unit cohort is because i'd be looking to force the enemy to kill three whole thallax (9 wounds!) before they take a leadership test, but the value of that varies from person to person and ymmv. Personally, i don't feel like it's that crucial.

Yeah, it's nice to have a small cohort to keep your DZ clear of infiltrators: the MM cohort are anti-tank deepstrike-fodder i assume?

Now I'm thinking the abeyant and the machinator array would be fun but I'll have to play with the idea. I'll probably shrink the cc thallax squad down to 6 and make another squad of 3.

I'll put up a revised list soon.

Thanks for the comments, guys.

It has both profiles on the gun in the weapons summary (just like a missile launcher with Frag and Krak) and the option is absent from the list (so it must come with both profiles, like a missile with frag and krak).

Here y'go..

Doesn't sound like a lot of Artillery for a Reductor list - surely that's just a normal Taghmata army?

 ArbitorIan wrote:
Doesn't sound like a lot of Artillery for a Reductor list - surely that's just a normal Taghmata army?

Usually conform to Ordo Reductor units, such as Thallax and Magos, for the Walkers in Ruin buff.
That's what I do mostly, at least.

Being super fluffy, yes, Reductor is supposed to bring all the artillery.
Gameplay wise? Eh, just bring some big guns that aren't on robots.

 ArbitorIan wrote:
Doesn't sound like a lot of Artillery for a Reductor list - surely that's just a normal Taghmata army?

The way i see it, if the OP has an Ordo Reductor Magos as his (her?) Archmagos, and is following the matrix of ruin, it's still an Ordo Reductor force.
The thing i don't like is the listbuilding tactic of using the matrix of ruin with a non-reductor archmagos - it just doesn't feel very reductor-like to me; the magos prime variants are a taghmata thing IMO.

On the topic of Reductor forces lacking artillery, one of the zany forces i came up with for a laugh was a magos reductor, two cohorts of three thallax and two thanatar, all matrix of ruin compliant and all inside 1000pts.

I also came up with a 2000 point force (that i'm currently building towards) that is nothing but a single archmagos and 33 thallax.

The thing i don't like is the listbuilding tactic of using the matrix of ruin with a non-reductor archmagos - it just doesn't feel very reductor-like to me; the magos prime variants are a taghmata thing IMO.

I always thought the Matrix required a Magos Reductor as the compulsory HQ...

I also came up with a 2000 point force (that i'm currently building towards) that is nothing but a single archmagos and 33 thallax.

That sounds absolutely magical.

Only three cohorts of multi-melta thallax to go and they're ready to roll!

It does, but the rules don't state that the compulsory HQ choice has to be the Archmagos - the restriction of only being able to use Magos/Archmagos reductor and Calleb Decima as your HQ is part of Calleb Decima's 'isstvan remnants' list from his profile.

I don't know why that is a problem. I am sure there were Ordo Reductor Covenants with attached Myrmidons or Centurio Ordinatus engines (and therefore personnel!) or even with help from another Forge World.

While the rules allow it, it's not a problem, but it's not something that i would be seen doing because i see it as not very Ordo Reductor-ey.

There's no harm in doing some work for another faction or selling some thallax to another magos, but relinquishing command of a War Covenant is not something i see happening.
The Ordo Reductor are mistrusted and feared by other elements of the mechanicum partly because of their licence to utilise forbidden technology when deemed necessary and partly because of the 'reckless' commandeering of 'basic' assets (basilisk) to throw into the jaws of the enemy to buy time to protect machines they actually care about (minotaur).

So i can see a taghmata/cybernetica magos accompanying an Ordo Reductor Archmagos as an on-site representative/commlink between the War Covenant and the other more influential representative of whichever arm of the mechanicum they represent, but not taking direct control of Reductor assets in the field.

 ArbitorIan wrote:
Doesn't sound like a lot of Artillery for a Reductor list - surely that's just a normal Taghmata army?

You must've missed the Minotaur and the bit where I was debating between the Venators or the OR artillery battery.

I've seen a few lists where they appear to be running Ordo Reductor simply for the Walkers in Ruin ability which makes me kind of sad but really you can justify most choices and still be semi fluffy.

SirDonald, I can't wait to hear how your crazy list does in action.

 SirDonlad wrote:
While the rules allow it, it's not a problem, but it's not something that i would be seen doing because i see it as not very Ordo Reductor-ey.

There's no harm in doing some work for another faction or selling some thallax to another magos, but relinquishing command of a War Covenant is not something i see happening.
The Ordo Reductor are mistrusted and feared by other elements of the mechanicum partly because of their licence to utilise forbidden technology when deemed necessary and partly because of the 'reckless' commandeering of 'basic' assets (basilisk) to throw into the jaws of the enemy to buy time to protect machines they actually care about (minotaur).

So i can see a taghmata/cybernetica magos accompanying an Ordo Reductor Archmagos as an on-site representative/commlink between the War Covenant and the other more influential representative of whichever arm of the mechanicum they represent, but not taking direct control of Reductor assets in the field.

What happens when a War Covenant under a Magos is working alongside an Auxilia Myrmidon sect with an Archmagos? Clearly the Archmagos outranks the Magos within the Mechanicum's traditional power structure, even if the Magos Reductor cedes command only grudgingly.

I dunno,, page 12 and 13 of the red book have the Myrmidon Cult as a 'sub-cult' of the Taghmata Omnissiah and the Ordo Reductor level-pegging with the Holy Synod of the Lords magos and the Legio Titanicus; so in the situation you mention, i beleive having an Ordo Reductor allied detachment to a Taghmata Omnissiah primary force would be a better way to represent such a scenario, but i'm not sure if the different factions of the mechanicum count as seperate forces from an allying perspective.


edit: will deffo do a batrep and post it on dakka when the thallax are done!

 Sol Invictus wrote:


I've seen a few lists where they appear to be running Ordo Reductor simply for the Walkers in Ruin ability which makes me kind of sad but really you can justify most choices and still be semi fluffy.

Magos Reductor's personal squad? Pretty much how I see my Doom Carrot Entourage.
I just imagine it's the big cheese and his 2nd toddling about a much larger battle, with his main artillery bunch somewhere else; battles with that list are like a window into a much greater affair.

As long as the lead HQ is a Reductor one and you're keeping to the matrix of ruin restrictions you can have any units you want and still be the Ordo Reductor as far as i'm concerned.
Two MORAT's and a Minotaur are classic Ordo Reductor HS choices IMO - they're even valid for an isstvan 3 survivors list!

Buddingsquaw wrote:

 Sol Invictus wrote:


I've seen a few lists where they appear to be running Ordo Reductor simply for the Walkers in Ruin ability which makes me kind of sad but really you can justify most choices and still be semi fluffy.

Magos Reductor's personal squad? Pretty much how I see my Doom Carrot Entourage.
I just imagine it's the big cheese and his 2nd toddling about a much larger battle, with his main artillery bunch somewhere else; battles with that list are like a window into a much greater affair.

SirDonlad wrote:As long as the lead HQ is a Reductor one and you're keeping to the matrix of ruin restrictions you can have any units you want and still be the Ordo Reductor as far as i'm concerned.
Two MORAT's and a Minotaur are classic Ordo Reductor HS choices IMO - they're even valid for an isstvan 3 survivors list!

Both fair points and as I said you can really justify most things. I may be in the minority but I think every OR list should at the very least have a Minotaur. I am currently also planning a Cybernetica list that is simply a different part of my Ordo Reductor so they'll share the same paint scheme and have OR heraldry but probably use Cybernetica rules.



Ok, here's my revised list based on some of the feedback I've received.

HQ
Archmagos Reductor - 310
Abeyant, Machinator Array, Paragon Blade(Master Crafted), Cyber Familiar, 2 x Cyber-occularis, Djinn-skein, Rad Grenades

Troops
Thallax - 150
3 x Thallax, Multi-Melta

Thallax - 310
6 x Thallax, 6 x heavy chainblade, Ferrox

Thallax - 145
3 x Thallax, Phased Plasma-Fusil

Fast Attack
Avenger Strike Fighter - 190
Battle servitor control, Two kraken penetrator missile

Heavy Support
Krios Venator Squadron - 300
2 x Krios venator

Myrmidon Destructors - 385
3 x Graviton imploder, Triaros w/ Blessed Autosimulcra

Minotaur Artillery tank - 215
Armoured Ceramite


I'll be running the Archmagos with the Myrmidons and probably keeping the Thallax with the plasma fusil back in my DZ. Right now I'm leaning towards the Krios Venators over the ORATs just in case I have to deal with other Mechanicum lists but I'll see how they do in play test.

The triaros is crying for some HK's - the weapons on one are quite short-range (volkite sentinels 18" and mauler bolt cannon is 24") and i always rue not taking a pair for 10pts.
If you have the points spare it's a good use of them imo.

I guess I could drop a cyber-occularis to get some HKs? Any other thoughts on where I could cut some points?

The rad grenades possibly?

The rules-lawyer in me started wondeing if the volkite sentinels could be fired in the same turn as moving 'flat out' in the shooting phase - if they can i may be wrong about the HK's.
I'm not entirely sure, since the sentinels are fired "in addition" to the other weapons it has but are also used "without penalty".
The first bit seems to require having fired the other weapons (you forgo firing weapons when moving 'flat out') but the second bit could be referring to the denyal-of-weapon-shooting interaction of the moving 'flat out' rule.

I smell RAW/RAI conflict.