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So now that the wave has been a out a little bit, what are your guys' thoughts? I've been trying to find a reason to want to pick these ships up, but I'm stumped as to what I would even do with them. The Shadowcaster seems okay, but I'm more interested in the upgrade cards it comes with. The Arc is meh, as it's expensive, fragile, and gets even more expensive if you wanna try and do stuff with it regarding astromechs and crew (which I don't even know if there is any combo worth it). The Special Forces TIE looks bad. Way too expensive, and fragile, and gets even more expensive blah blah. Same thing as the Arc, really. The only one that looks decent is the Protectorate fighter, and mainly because I like the look and wanna run 5 of them because reasons.

Has anyone found any good, cool builds to do with these ships? Or is this wave kind of a bust?

Well, some I guy I played against used Electronic Baffles on Quickdraw. The plan is simple, you find yourself in arc of 2 targets, preferably at range 1, via a red maneuver of your choice. And let's face it, you have many. You automatically use Electronic Baffles to fire during the Activation phase. If your enemy assigns you stress, you make him pay for it dearly.

Once his shields are depleted, he's essentially a B-Wing.

For my part, I really want to find a way to use the Shadowcaster. I love its dial, and the ship is damn sexy. I've been toying with lists, but nothing pops out. Maybe this?

Asajj Ventress (37)
Veteran Instincts (1)
Black Market Slicer Tools (1)
Rigged Cargo Chute (1)
Gyroscopic Targeting (2)

Kavil (24)
Veteran Instincts (1)
Twin Laser Turret (6)
Unhinged Astromech (1)
Vectored Thrusters (2)

N'Dru Suhlak (17)
Lone Wolf (2)
Cluster Missiles (4)
Black Market Slicer Tools (1)
Guidance Chips (0)

Total: 100

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

Keep the Shadowcaster light, give up the glitterstim on N'dru for extended use later, Kavil gets to dictate where he'll be able to fire with *gasp* post maneuver repositioning.

Well, overall not much has happened to dislodge the Toilet seats from the top spot.

Black Market Slicer Tools hurts PTL Aces, so there is somewhat more of an emphasis on Vader/Whisper/Defenders over Inquisitor/Soontir.

Fenn Rau is a potential choice for a 3rd ship alongside a pair of Jumpmasters.

Both Scum and Rebels just picked up a powerful control piece (Asaj Venntress and the ARC170 Tactician/Stressbot combo).

TIE/sf's main contribution to the meta appears to be the addition of Collision Detectors.

I've been flying a lot against Ventress, and it has proved to be a suprisingly strong ship.

Asajj Ventress (37)
Fearlessness (1)
K4 Security Droid or Dengar (3)
Glitterstim (2)
Glitterstim (2)
Gyroscopic Targeting (2)

Total: 47

Mainly, the Shadowcaster has a suprisingly easy time setting up those range 1 shots to trigger fearlessness. This thing is a sledgehammer in the shooting phase, and the stress debuff is rough to deal with (yes, you can blow it off next turn, but your maneuvers become more predictable).

On the Rebel side, Norra and Braylen seem workable. Braylen with Gunner+R3A2 is a strong stress dealer, who has a much larger zone of control than the stresshog. Norra is a deceptively strong shooter, and she has strong synergy with R2D2+PTL (I also really like tail gunner with her). Both work very well in formation with Biggs.

I don't have much to say about the other ships, I haven't flown against them much. I can't figure out what you're supposed to be doing with the TIE SF.

I think that's the general consensus in my group as well. The Tie S/F looks cool, but... really? A B-Wing? I'm not sure an extra point was warranted for 2 less hit points and one more evade. Primed Thrusters *might* be good with it, if you intend to do a lot of repositionning to bring those arcs to bear. I was going to propose Accuracy Corrector... but that brings it a point over having 4 of them on the board.

DanielBeaver: I like that build, it is a lot more aggressive than what I had in mind. Although if it is Asajj piloting, I would rather give BMST a slot, as it has obvious synergy. I like that Fearlessness isn't limited to primary arc.

I feel that the TIE/sf suffers from the same thing as a T-65 X-wing. It's just a hair to expensive to be exciting. In the sf's case, if the generic was only 22 points, you could have fun with Accuracy correcter, or Primed Thrusters/TIE mkII+Fire Control System for a fairly efficient medium jouster. As is, however, you have to choose to either a) do something interesting or b) run a useful number.

I feel like the TIE/sf is missing a crew slot, tailgunner for example would change this from blah to much better

 DocCheech17 wrote:
I feel like the TIE/sf is missing a crew slot, tailgunner for example would change this from blah to much better

or tail gunners effect be put onto the title card. that would have been cool

Its cost would balloon out of all useful proportion, though. I think the added fire arc represents the crew that mans the guns. Anyway, we're stuck with it as is, for the moment. They could always release another title to shake things up.

IMO:

The ARC-170 has potential as a double-arc stressbot carrier (R3-A2 + tactician or gunner on the PS 3), but not much else. It's just way too expensive if you start taking major upgrades on a good pilot, and tail gunner is great on paper but really awkward to line up consistently on the table. And even the R3-A2 option is kind of questionable at that point cost, since it really puts some constraints on what you can do with the rest of your list compared to a conventional TLT stresshog.

The TIE/sf is just bad. Maybe the PS 7 that adds an automatic crit could be ok, but everything else is bad. The generics are bad, and the Quickdraw "kill yourself to shoot something" gimmick is terrible. An occasional rear-arc shot doesn't justify a weak stat line, especially at the same cost as much better ships in the same faction.

The Shadowcaster is good, but a victim of u-boats existing. It's ridiculously fast with PTL and EU, the mobile arc is almost as good as a full turret at a fraction of the cost, and the two control pilots are just plain scary. Its only real drawback is that it's a good ship in a faction with a blatantly overpowered and easily spammable ship, so the argument for taking it over the raw power of Dengaroo or u-boats is kind of questionable. But if/when u-boats get a well-deserved nerf I think you can expect to see this.

The Protectorate is seems ok. I'm not sold at all on the generics, but Fenn Rau seems really good. At PS 9 with PTL you can still arc dodge even if you don't have the absurd defense of Soontir Fel, and a 5-dice attack up close with the option to stack focus + TL makes him a serious "kill them before they can shoot back" threat at a reasonable price. Like the Shadowcaster he's probably a victim of the current meta, but he's a really good tool in the toolbox if someone comes up with the right list.

Braylen Stramm is expensive compared to a gold squadron BTL-a4 but he is, I think, worth it. Gunner is much better in practice than tactician (tried both) because its much easier to trigger against the range-dancing squints and TAPs you realky need it against, even if it is slightly more expensive. The problem with a conventional stresshog is that you've only got a forward arc plus you will never be able to kturn once you start firing. Stramm having an auxiliary arc makes it infinitely easier to line up no-go areas for aces, plus his green banks and ability means the odd hard maneuver isn't out of the question.

You are paying a 5-point premium for him, but when I've used him and seen him used he's more than justified it. I do accept that the main problem is that biting into your "other stuff".

The most recent local event was actually won by norra, bramm & biggs - norra is surprisingly tough in practice for a one on one endgame ship, but again you do damn well pay for it, and unless you can trigger her ability and have a tailgunner, that aux arc is basically an irrelevant popgun.

The other ARC pilots are so-so. They may have sone mileage with M9-G8 and weapons engineer once Heroes of the Resistance comes out.

I came up with this last night, mostly for Tractor Beam giggles:

Ketsu Onyo (38)
Fearlessness (1)
Dengar (3)
Black Market Slicer Tools (1)
Glitterstim (2)
Gyroscopic Targeting (2)
Shadow Caster (3)

Syndicate Thug (18)
Dorsal Turret (3)
Plasma Torpedoes (3)
Unhinged Astromech (1)
Guidance Chips (0)

Syndicate Thug (18)
Dorsal Turret (3)
Plasma Torpedoes (3)
Unhinged Astromech (1)
Guidance Chips (0)

Total: 100

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

Now I'm wondering, is a potential Plasma Torpedo shot with some tractor tokens on your ship are worth not taking a TLT instead. Would a TLT + Tractor focused list be worth it? If you can catch a slippery target, sure, but I'm assuming that's still going to be hard.

A mate of mine seems to be cleaning up a bit with QuickDraw and electronic baffles plus rage.

That's the one! I knew I forgot something. The thing is, it's essentially a fireship. One that is quite expensive for the short-lived utility it brings. Very Razzle-Dazzle, but it's only got 3 hulls and 2 evade once that shtick runs out.

I'm of the view that whilst many of the upgrades will see lasting play the ships are a bit ho-hum and generally better choices already exist, not that I won't be flying them for funs especially the ARC as I love me some Clone Wars and Rebels

I've played a lot of Quickdraw recently, and she's pretty powerful. If you pair her with ships the opponent doesn't want to see in the end game, she essentially acts as a bodyguard. They can ignore her in which case they take 3 turns on double attacks, or they can go after her, in which case they take a turn of double attacks, but let other ships into the endgame. The activation phase trick is nice, but it's just one tool she's got.

I've started playing games with thew Shadowcaster. It is a hard ship to master. Having a way to Barrel Roll would be nice, or splurging for EU seems important. But if you do so, you miss out on post combat re-position. Which kinda telegraphs your move for next turn anyway!

I tried Asajj, but her stress arc was rather easy to avoid, I found out. Especially if she is low PS and everyone can dodge out of it. So I changed her EPT from fearlessness to VI, then I tried Ketsu with VI, and although you get a bit more milleage out of them, they lack the punch to give consistent damage. I had Dengar on board, and most of my opponents favour named pilots, so I had a consistent 2 reroll, but any dedicated effort to bring it down will, in short order. Maybe my mistake was trying to get it to fit in a three ships list.

Someone unloaded onto me with a fully kited out... Talonbane Cobra. The name was enough to leave me unimpressed. But Fearlessness, Vectored Thrusters and Glitterstim can make sure he lands that first punch. And what a punch.

Been playing around with the SF a lot recently (Mostly Backdraft). I think that the big issue is that, unless your opponent is flying in very loose formation, you are probably not going to use the Special Forces title except to increase your primary gun. End result is a ship that is basically and X-wing, but with a fairly ineffective rear arc. The T-65 is underwhelming but cheaper), and the T-70 has some amazing aces which the SF lacks, as well as access to the very strong integrated astromech and autothrusters upgrades (giving it a much better profile for only modest points). In contrast, if the SF starts adding upgrades, it rapidly approaches the cost of the X-7 Defender, which is a very good ship. While the X-7 lacks the auxiliary arc, it is better in most other ways, and the white K-turn makes up for that.

Backdraft, in contrast, is a fun pilot to fly, if you keep him cheap. His ability makes his rear arc a threat, so you are free to fly around and take potshots at will. The fact that he can use either arc, and has a fairly good dial+Barrel Roll makes him hard to pin down for your opponent. Not amazing (I would probably go for a defender in a tournament), but enough to be fun in casual games.

If the special forces title simply allowed you to make multiple primary weapon attacks, with at least 1 being out of the front arc, I would likely have a different opinion of this ship. As is, I feel that you are paying a premium for an ability which you almost never use.

So, the U-boats got their nerf. In which area can a Lancer exceed them?

I was toying with Ketsu and Manaroo last night. It leaves just enough points for a BMST Z-95. Maybe that will allow the Lancer to perform adequately in the shooting phase.

 Mathieu Raymond wrote:
I tried Asajj, but her stress arc was rather easy to avoid, I found out. Especially if she is low PS and everyone can dodge out of it.

I don't think low PS is that much of a problem, especially with PTL and EU. You have 180* of arc, and we all know how terrifying R3-A2 can be on a ship with only 90* of arc. Sure, sometimes they'll dodge no matter what you do, but a lot of the time you can cover so much of the table that there's just nowhere to hide (at least without breaking off from the fight entirely and getting shot in the back).

To shoot, yes. But the stress mechanic is only in that 90* arc. My opponents do realize that dodging that arc can be worth it and that, since they move after me (Imperial Aces is still on top of the meta), they can just skirt it. Palpatine has gone back to being the bees knees.

Locally, for the Lancer to work, you have to use Ketsu Onyo with VI and at least a 2 pts initiative bid, ideally 3 pts.

 Mathieu Raymond wrote:
But the stress mechanic is only in that 90* arc.

Oh, huh, you're right. That's what I get for watching people playing with it instead of reading the card, I suspect they'll be a bit less impressed with the actual rules.

I only received my Shadow Caster last week, and quickly knocked together a list to try it out. My list was something like:

45 points
Asajj Ventress Lancer-class Pursuit Craft
Tactician
Black Market Slicer Tools
Shadow Caster
Gyroscopic Targeting

31 points
4-LOM G-1A Starfighter
Zuckuss
Fire-Control System
Inertial Dampeners

24 points
Palob Godalhi HWK-290
Adaptability
Autoblaster Turret
Ketsu Onyo
Black Market Slicer Tools

I played against a list with Whisper, Quiz, and a couple of mooks (Night Beast). It was a bit of an unfortunate matchup, because the stress dealing and stuff to circumvent agility was very powerful against the little Empire ships. I really liked the combination of Asajj and Tactician (especially with the tractor token shenanigans). Though I was probably most impressed with the HWK-290, which I've actually never tried playing with before (I only have the bits from Most Wanted, so I had to proxy the model). Palob Godalhi's ability to steal tokens is super annoying, and the Autoblaster Turret against Whisper with double stress tokens was just cruel.

I quite enjoyed playing with the Shadow Caster, it seems to have a good array of annoying gadgets, to have in a control list.

It's definitely a good ship with potential. It just suffers against higher PS high mobility ships because of its low action economy.

You're right about Palob, a friend of mine never leaves home without Omega Leader w/ Juke, so I kept parking myself within range 2 of him and sucked off his evade token turn after turn. He kept forgetting throughout the game. Very enjoyable.

I did notice she was a little action heavy, especially with slicers. I was thinking next time I might switch Gyroscopic Targeting for PTL, the main problem is expense... What was the issue that you noticed with higher PS pilots? I haven't really had much experience flying her, what was the problem there with higher PS?

Since both cool pilots have range and arc restrictions on tbeir abilities, it is relatively easy for imperial forces to avoid those areas. If you plan on running something other than VI, to make sure they can't evade your arcs, then plan on blocking them to deny them actions.

PTL aces can wreak merry hell with your plans and a single BMST won't be enough to dig you out.