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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/10/08 15:37:50
Subject: Chaos tactics against Necrons?
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Been Around the Block
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Against Necrons what units are most efficient if I'm using Chaos?
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Beer beer I drink at the pier I am the prince the prince of beer. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/10/08 15:54:27
Subject: Chaos tactics against Necrons?
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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It is a losing battle to be honest. Try to play to objectives and hope you don't die a little more than average, because they'll win as soon as that happens.
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CaptainStabby wrote:If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote:BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote:Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote:ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/10/08 16:24:24
Subject: Chaos tactics against Necrons?
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Oozing Plague Marine Terminator
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Before the FaQ Vindicators did okay for me. Everything else lacks firepower, really. The new psychic disciplines might help, as well as Forgeworld. If he has a Harvest, kill the spider, after that kill his ghost arc(s). And then just try to survive.
The best bet is if you talk to your opponent before the game and he accepts to not use decurion/ crypteks. Then it's a fair game.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/10/08 16:53:42
Subject: Re:Chaos tactics against Necrons?
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Steadfast Ultramarine Sergeant
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Fast Assualt units. Especially Nurgle Spawns, take no less than 3 units of 5.
With S5 T6 and some lucky attack number rolls you will drown Necron Warriors Immortals and even Destroyers quite quick. Against the Wraiths you will at least tarpit them for several turns.
Another option might be the Maulerfiends. Unlike other vehicles, considering the speed of this thing and the only 24inch rang of Necrons, those Necron Gauss weapons will have at most one round of shooting to 6s you befor you charge into them, and it is also quite likely to survive that round. And with S10 AP2, you are messing up Necron RP of most of their unit.
Last But not the least. Try out Heldrakes. Especially Your Sorceror cast enfeeble on those poor giys.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/10/08 16:56:53
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/10/08 17:53:30
Subject: Chaos tactics against Necrons?
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Potent Possessed Daemonvessel
Why Aye Ya Canny Dakkanaughts!
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Which forces of chaos are you using? CSM, Daemons or Renegade guard?
Edit: In general Necrons can tank ranged attacks extremely well and they can also break your vehicles easy with gaus.
I have personally found that swarms of cc units can deal with Necrons quite well; my Daemons daemonic incursion with a murderhorde trampled over all of my opponants 'crons and he couldn't win by objective because of my fast moving daemonic corruption.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/10/08 18:13:54
Ghorros wrote:The moral of the story: Don't park your Imperial Knight in a field of Gretchin carrying power tools.
Marmatag wrote:All the while, my opponent is furious, throwing his codex on the floor, trying to slash his wrists with safety scissors. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/10/08 21:07:52
Subject: Chaos tactics against Necrons?
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!!Goffik Rocker!!
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If csm, warband should be doing good cause of obsec. You could get 2 spawnstars with obsec. Necrons don't really like tough fearless melee and psychers. Also, they tend to crumble if you throw a bunch of melee engines + anything else at them. Chaos shooting will do gak on the other hand. Well, outside of fw.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/10/09 02:10:10
Subject: Chaos tactics against Necrons?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Joke answer: Bring a Sorcerer with the Mark of Slaanesh.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/10/09 06:33:43
Subject: Chaos tactics against Necrons?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
Ute nation
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You're in for a rough fight, necrons will be tougher than you, and be no slouches at removing your units from the board. With that said the advice is the same for most armies, there are three formations you have to worry about:
Canoptek harvest: Fast, tough and assault oriented, these guys are responsible for most of the salt thrown at necrons. The formation has three parts, wraiths which are the snake looking like things, scarabs which look like scarabs, and the spyder which is a MC. As long as the spyder is alive the wraiths and scarabs get repair protocols, which is the necron 4+ FnP. So killing the spyder is always priority one. The wraiths are fast and tough but not particularly killy, they rely on rend to get past armor saves, so unless he gets lucky just normal marines can tie them up fairly well. The trick is they can ignore terrain, so they go for you vulnerable units, don't let them. They are fearless and don't have hit and have hit and run, so whatever fight they get in they are stuck in until conclusion. The scarabs are tarpits with lots of wounds and attacks and a weeny toughness of 3, bring a power fist and you'll make short work of them.
Destroyer Cult: This is by far and away the most dangerous formation for you, there will be at least three units of three models, each model will have heavy 2 S5 AP3 weapons, 2 wounds, move shoot move, and all sorts of reroll shenanigans. The normal destroyers suck in CC though, so if you can get talons on them you can save yourself a lot of pain. The destroyer lord who leads the cult though is a CC nightmare, S5 T6 3 wounds and often loaded up on war gear, drown him in attacks to kill him, and if you don't think you have the beef just stay away from him.
Judicator battalion: The weakest of the big three, you'll have two units of s5/t5 jump infantry and one scorpion looking like thing that needs to die at your earliest convenience because it buffs the weapon skill of those around it and gives rerolls to the rest of the formation. The jump infantry will have S5 AP2 weapons for both ranged and melee, or a s6 pistol and a sword with rending for extra attacks. They are a true double threat being good at ranged and melee, and having high mobility. However they are not much tougher than our basic troop choices, and there are only ten of them so if you concentrate fire you can eliminate them quickly, and they are certainly worth concentrating fire on.
Other advice is the usual given for playing against a higher tier army, focus on objectives, try to make sure you have local superiority, and sacrifice some fo your units to keep them away from the bulk of your forces. GL!
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Constantly being negative doesn't make you seem erudite, it just makes you look like a curmudgeon. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/10/09 09:20:34
Subject: Chaos tactics against Necrons?
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Proud Triarch Praetorian
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The post directly above has the best advice here, but let me give you a little advice from.a Necron player's perspective:
If you're trying to KILL Necrons, you're not going to have a good time. The entire premise of the army is that they're tough to kill.
The secret to out playing them is to know how to neuter their effectiveness. Their strength is in shooting. The best way to counter that is to tie them up in combat so they can't shoot. Note: this does NOT mean they will just crumble in combat. That is old thinking people keep spouting from the previous iteration of Necrons. The current codex Necrons are hard as nails so do not just jump in expecting to wipe the floor with any unit you engage in CC.
What you want to do is throw fast durable and expendable things at their guns (though, the majority of their infantry are garbage in CC so I guess durable isn't as important as fast). Spam them. Engage every unit you see that has a gun. You need not worry about killiness. That's not the point, here. The point is to prevent them from shooting. That's it. A Necron army that cannot shoot is more than likely going to lose.
Now, that being said, not all Necron units are actually bad at CC. Some of them are actually quite a threat now thanks to the new codex.
- Flayed Ones. Do NOT engage if at all possible. Deceptively killy.
- Lychguard. If they have shields they're tarpit. If they have scythes they're blenders. Avoid either way. Luckily they're slow so you might not need to worry much.
- Praetorians. As mentioned in the above post, extremely killy. They're very fast but not as hard to kill, so if you see them headed to your squishy stuff, maybe try to take them out before they get there, or at least thin them out so it's not as painful once they hit.
- Wraiths. Also mentioned above, these guys are actually more of a distraction carnifex for the army. They look scary and have a terrifying reputation... but are actually nothing more than an anvil unit. They're fast, so can rush up and catch things, and they're extremely hard to kill so anything they catch is probably going to stay caught... but they're not going to do that much killing themselves. Now, on the other hand, if they have a Destroyer Lord attached to them, kiss whatever that unit is aimed at goodbye.
- Scarabs are kinda like Flayed Ones. Cheap with lots of attacks but not that hard to kill. Just shoot them, especially with templates.
- Spyders. Tough but not impossible but to crack. With focusing on as the Harvest formation will lose its benefits after it's gone.
- C'tan... best just steer clear of them. Especially the Nightbringer. They're slow so that shouldn't be too hard. Plus, they're kinda lame now so you probably won't have to worry about seeing them.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/10/09 11:58:06
Subject: Chaos tactics against Necrons?
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Regular Dakkanaut
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Sgt. Cortez wrote:Before the FaQ Vindicators did okay for me. Everything else lacks firepower, really. The new psychic disciplines might help, as well as Forgeworld. If he has a Harvest, kill the spider, after that kill his ghost arc(s). And then just try to survive.
The best bet is if you talk to your opponent before the game and he accepts to not use decurion/ crypteks. Then it's a fair game.
Very solid advice. Ghost arcs and the Spyder have to go asap. Try to dump the bikes shortly after (mobility, durability, TL' Str 5 gauss can be a real headache)
I will say there is a way to run vindicators effectively. Demonic possession. If you want you could run a unit of 3 and drop the ignores cover apoc blast pretty reliably. If one goes boom, you've got multiple 10/2 regular templates. Just keep them away from bikes and Wraiths you should be good. Combine them with a Khorne prince and Khorne lord with the AOBF with bodyguard in a dread claw and watch him sweat. Tac on Cyclopia kabal and you're playing to almost all of necrons weaknesses (if you can really call them weaknesses ). That's how I would do it if it was (God forbid ) purge the alien. If playing maelstrom just dumped the vindicators for a stronger warband.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/10/09 12:03:00
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/10/11 20:53:36
Subject: Chaos tactics against Necrons?
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On a Canoptek Spyder's Waiting List
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As both a Necron and Nurgle CSM player, my advice is get into melee asap avoiding wraiths. I suggest warp talons or bikers running from cover to cover.
Mark of Nurgle bikers with flamers are my pick for dealing with warrior blobs and Scarabs.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/10/14 09:10:22
Subject: Chaos tactics against Necrons?
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Proud Triarch Praetorian
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... why are people so concerned with KILLING Warriors?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/10/18 08:53:54
Subject: Chaos tactics against Necrons?
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Regular Dakkanaut
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It's not so much and obsession with killing warriors, but rather that we use warriors as a benchmark of damage that can be done to necrons, being they basic troops, 13 ppm, are relentless, objective secured, have 2 4+ saves and can wound any non-LoW model in the fething game. Everything else is much more difficult to take out.
That and their lethality increases exponentially with numbers and when near a Spyder.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/10/18 15:53:26
Subject: Chaos tactics against Necrons?
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Proud Triarch Praetorian
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Dantes_Baals wrote:It's not so much and obsession with killing warriors, but rather that we use warriors as a benchmark of damage that can be done to necrons, being they basic troops, 13 ppm, are relentless, objective secured, have 2 4+ saves and can wound any non- LoW model in the fething game. Everything else is much more difficult to take out.
That and their lethality increases exponentially with numbers and when near a Spyder.
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Wtf are you talking about??
- Warriors are one of the weakest things in the codex. If you're focused on killing them you're going to be ill equipped to deal with the REAL threats they have (which tend to come with T5 & 3+). THAT should be what to focus on dealing with.
- They cannot have Relentless AND ObSec. It's one or the other.
- That should be "have the ABILITY TO wound any model in the game". That's if they can roll a 6 after hitting and the wound isn't saved. Statistically not great, so if a Necron player is relying on a couple units of Warriors to win them the game, I got bad news for that player.
- Numbers definitely help Warriors, as it increases the odds of getting that aforementioned hit-follwed-by-6... but if they're taking tons of Warriors, they won't have points to spend of the REAL effective units (Destroyers, Tomb Blades, Wraiths, etc).
- Spyders do nothing to help Warriors, who even told you that? (if someone was playing them that way they may have been cheating. I would suggest asking to see the codex next time someone makes a claim like that.)
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/10/18 15:54:25
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/10/22 14:55:05
Subject: Chaos tactics against Necrons?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
Moscow, Russia
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skoffs wrote:
- Spyders do nothing to help Warriors, who even told you that? (if someone was playing them that way they may have been cheating. I would suggest asking to see the codex next time someone makes a claim like that.)
He means a Stalker, I think.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/10/22 17:15:28
Subject: Chaos tactics against Necrons?
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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Yeah but I choose Relentless every time. Being able to shoot and charge really does increase their damage output considerably. I'd argue that all Necrons should have Relentless standard because they're bloody robots but that's a different discussion.
I also still use Ghost Arks too because arguably nobody cares about vehicles anymore, and they're fairly durable for the cost. That's still in my specific area though and obviously in a different setting everyone might have Haywire everywhere.
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CaptainStabby wrote:If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote:BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote:Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote:ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever. |
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