Paint Toxicity

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**bbag**

Sort of a weird question for a first post, but what do you guys know about paint toxicity levels?

I ask because I was washing dishes the other day, and left a load to soak in the sink overnight. Unfortunately, the next morning I discovered that one of my palette knives had somehow made it's way into the water.

The palette knife itself was clean (I always clean them promptly), but it is also very old, and its handle has a thin veneer of years-old, gradually-accumulated, crusted paint (mostly acrylic and watercolour; not sure if that knife was ever used for oils). The paint crust on the handle (which is very minor, no more than a fraction of a millimeter thick if that) did not appear to be disturbed. I did NOT notice any paint in the detergent water, nor did I notice any discoloration or particles on the dishes, silverware, or sink sides at all. However, the offending knife was soaking in the sink for at least a full night (possibly longer) and it did have a gunky handle.

So how safe would it be to use my dishes?

Again, it doesn't look like any paint got on my washing-up, and I thoroughly washed each item two or three times more just to be sure. I've also heard that the odd fleck of acrylic paint won't kill you, so long as you don't make a habit of eating it. But I also want to be cautious, for obvious reasons - so, should I throw out all my dishes? Or am I safe?

**Elbows**

Honestly...I wouldn't worry about it. Maybe wash your stuff again if you're concerned. Almost everything else in the hobby is far worse (resin dust, fumes from glue etc.)

**insaniak**

You would need to check the individual paints involved... Some paints are non-toxic, some aren't, depending entirely on what's in them.

Having said that, unless your dishes are made of wood, giving them a good wash in hot, soapy water is going to get rid of any slight residue on the surface... glazed pottery is non-porous.

**Red_Ink_Cat**

Most dishes should be okay, especially after you washed them 2 or 3 times. If you are really worried about it though, I would give them a wash in a sanitizer or bleach (not full strength of course) and then wash them once more. That should do it for everything except maybe wood.

**Asterios**

bbag wrote:
Sort of a weird question for a first post, but what do you guys know about paint toxicity levels?

I ask because I was washing dishes the other day, and left a load to soak in the sink overnight. Unfortunately, the next morning I discovered that one of my palette knives had somehow made it's way into the water.

The palette knife itself was clean (I always clean them promptly), but it is also very old, and its handle has a thin veneer of years-old, gradually-accumulated, crusted paint (mostly acrylic and watercolour; not sure if that knife was ever used for oils). The paint crust on the handle (which is very minor, no more than a fraction of a millimeter thick if that) did not appear to be disturbed. I did NOT notice any paint in the detergent water, nor did I notice any discoloration or particles on the dishes, silverware, or sink sides at all. However, the offending knife was soaking in the sink for at least a full night (possibly longer) and it did have a gunky handle.

So how safe would it be to use my dishes?

Again, it doesn't look like any paint got on my washing-up, and I thoroughly washed each item two or three times more just to be sure. I've also heard that the odd fleck of acrylic paint won't kill you, so long as you don't make a habit of eating it. But I also want to be cautious, for obvious reasons - so, should I throw out all my dishes? Or am I safe?

if it is water colors or acrylic paints quit stressing out if it was oil you would need to go thru the washing process and such, but water based paints I would not worry about.

**Bullfrog**

It'll be fine, wash the dishes again to put your mind at rest if you're at all concerned.

Although it would be the perfect opportunity to try some painting based recipes. Mississippi Devlan Mud Pie anyone?

**insaniak**

Asterios wrote:
if it is water colors or acrylic paints quit stressing out if it was oil you would need to go thru the washing process and such, but water based paints I would not worry about.

Just for what it's worth, the base isn't the issue, it's whatever is used to tint the paint that may or may not be toxic. There's nothing inherent about water-based paints that prevents them from containing toxic dyes.

As I said, not likely to be an issue on properly-washed crockery, but certainly check the label before you try drinking your paint...

**Ryuhoshi**

Nah, dont worry. My bf has been licking the brush for make the paint thinner for years and he's still here. I wouldn't worry so much about it. XD

**gummyofallbears**

I know GW citadel paints are not toxic. Funny story about that, I was at my local GW playing some 40k and a parent asked about the toxicity of paint and one of the dumber guys there took his large pot of nuln oil (like the big bullet size ones) and drank the entire thing. The family never came back.

But I haven't had issues with it, I have accidentally drank entire gulps from my paint water so I think you should be alright. Resin fumes or glue fumes are much worse than a bit of paint.

Happy wargaming!
~Mikey

**Red_Ink_Cat**

gummyofallbears wrote:
I know GW citadel paints are not toxic. Funny story about that, I was at my local GW playing some 40k and a parent asked about the toxicity of paint and one of the dumber guys there took his large pot of nuln oil (like the big bullet size ones) and drank the entire thing. The family never came back.

...but ...but why?

**Desubot**

1 over night soak wouldn't do anything

Watch out for some colors like yellows and oranges i believe in the past they were cadmium based which is no bueno if inhaled

nowadays its all made from "safe" petroleum pigments.

but 90% of the times its only when its inhaled that its a problem

unless its like lead based paint at which point you might be in trouble.

**Lance845**

Paint uses a heavy metal. It used to be lead. Now it's titanium. Thing is titanium does the same thing to your body that lead does but requires smaller amounts. Its actually worse for you if ingested, just "lead" is the red flag word everyone is afraid of. Just dont eat paint.

Are your dishes safe? Probably. Id wash them again regardless.

**Asterios**

ok what it comes down to is look at the paint label if it was hazardous in any way shape or form it would say so on the label, all the paints I use do not have such labeling, so its safe. and believe me I live in California where they have warning labels on pans and such.

**Munga**

Most paints are nontoxic these days. Even oils and watercolors. You'd have to go out looking for a paint that is actually toxic. All of those have been replaced with nontoxic pigments these days. And anyone who paints a lot has accidentally swigged their paint water at some point

**Kosake**

Speaking from a chemical Point of view, you have to consider the components of paints seperately, namely solvents and actual pigments.

Solvents - in the case of organic solvents - are not exactly healthy to ingest, but they are not tremendously toxic. A drop or two won't kill you or make you sick. Of course, that doesn't mean you should drink your paints, but it's not *that* dangerous. Since acrylics these days are mostly water-based, you can pretty much Forget about this. Old, dried paint does not contain solvents anymore (unless you do serious trace analytics), so you can safely ignore that.

Then we have the pigments. Pigments are scary, because they contain heavy metals - or so you would think. In practice, to be dangerous, the metal Ions Need to separate from the pigments to be absorbed into your Body to cause harm, meaning they Need to be water-soluble, which they are not (remember? water-based paint?). So, your paint is a Suspension of probably mostly oxides and sulfates and the like - not only are they not water-soluble, they are also pretty resistant to acids (such as in your stomach). That's why the oh-so-scary cadmium Sulfide-based paints are pretty safe. The pigments simply behave like a small grain of sand, nothing worse.

So, no, your paints wont poison you. The eastern block used to have self-glowing Polonium based paint (for Cockpit instruments or suchlike), but I highly doubt that you are using that for your miniatures.

**ColonelFazackerley**

Lance845 wrote:
Paint uses a heavy metal. It used to be lead. Now it's titanium. Thing is titanium does the same thing to your body that lead does but requires smaller amounts. Its actually worse for you if ingested, just "lead" is the red flag word everyone is afraid of. Just dont eat paint.

Are your dishes safe? Probably. Id wash them again regardless.

It's true most (?all) white paint has titanium dioxide in. It's also used in food colouring. So I am wondering why you say it's toxic...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Titanium_dioxide

aside:
It is a bit tricky. I think the titanium dioxide pigment is the reason whites are hard to paint with.

**oldzoggy**

Paint toxicity has traditionally always been an issue that is underestimated by the community. Numerous paints have been silently removed from the shelf's because of better safety regulations or new insightss. Your dishes will probably be safe, but this is only a guess since I don't know nearly enough of the current paint formula's.

Be warned that model paints and other hobby supplies are not tested to the same standards as food grade paints, nor are they tested for heavy professional usage / long term exposure. The are tested and approved for normal responsible usage. All paint companies have to follow these rules but most model paint selling companies aren't exactly on the cutting edge of environmental friendly / non toxic alternatives. And some FLGS have the tendency to evade environmental legislation by importing much sought after hobby materials themselves. It is in general good to be critical of the safety issues of like varnishes and spray paints, never lick your brushes and be wary of stuff that your local store "managed to get their hands on".

Automatically Appended Next Post:
I looked some more into this, GW doesn't supply us with anything useful. But vallejo does. It gives supply us Safety data sheet like all decent manufacturers should do really.

Here is the link you might find it interesting.
http://www.acrylicosvallejo.com/en_US/security

Automatically Appended Next Post:
For those who do not want to go offsite here is their general statement on paint pigments.

vallejo.com wrote:Pigments can only cause damage to health in case of inhalation, ingestion or absorption through the skin. Pigments in solvent-based mediums are more likely to be inhaled due to the volatile nature of the medium. If in addition these solvent based colors are used in vaporized systems such as airbrushing, they become truly dangerous to health, and the use of a mask and a protective screen for airbrushing is already part of the legislation in many countries. Acrylic mediums have a low rate of solubility, and are by far safer in airbrushing techniques.

Most artists' colors manufactured in these last 40 years are formulated with pigments which are considered safe to the artist or the environment. Synthetic pigments have found their place alongside the traditional pigments and shine in their own right; they are not only beautiful but have superb lightfastness and permanence. These organic pigments are also used in limited color ranges to replace some of the original inorganic pigments to manufacture colors identified with the word " Hue " on the labels. But the quality of artist's pigments such as Cadmium and Cobalt is still unequalled and they continue to be included in all the important ranges of artists' colors for professional artists.

Cadmium pigments are traditional pigments of great beauty, permanence and stability. They contain heavy metals and are not biodegradable. Care should be taken in the handling of Cadmium or any other pigment in powder form. Cadmium and Cobalt contained in Artist' Colors should not be taken internally, and if applied in spray techniques, the use of a protective mask is essential. Used cadmium containers should not be incinerated, because in this process the cadmium compounds revert to a soluble state and produce toxic fumes. They can also get into the sewage system, and for environmental safety it is recommended to discard used cadmium tubes in special containers (as one would treat used batteries, for example). See also Cadmium Regulations Update.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Here is more info on their composition of the model paints. http://cdn.acrylicosvallejo.com/c344a5302d2c93d3c59fc8f205370a4e/Pigments-used-in-ModelColor.pdf

**Asterios**

Kosake wrote:
Speaking from a chemical Point of view, you have to consider the components of paints seperately, namely solvents and actual pigments.

Solvents - in the case of organic solvents - are not exactly healthy to ingest, but they are not tremendously toxic. A drop or two won't kill you or make you sick. Of course, that doesn't mean you should drink your paints, but it's not *that* dangerous. Since acrylics these days are mostly water-based, you can pretty much Forget about this. Old, dried paint does not contain solvents anymore (unless you do serious trace analytics), so you can safely ignore that.

Then we have the pigments. Pigments are scary, because they contain heavy metals - or so you would think. In practice, to be dangerous, the metal Ions Need to separate from the pigments to be absorbed into your Body to cause harm, meaning they Need to be water-soluble, which they are not (remember? water-based paint?). So, your paint is a Suspension of probably mostly oxides and sulfates and the like - not only are they not water-soluble, they are also pretty resistant to acids (such as in your stomach). That's why the oh-so-scary cadmium Sulfide-based paints are pretty safe. The pigments simply behave like a small grain of sand, nothing worse.

So, no, your paints wont poison you. The eastern block used to have self-glowing Polonium based paint (for Cockpit instruments or suchlike), but I highly doubt that you are using that for your miniatures.

but Solvant paints are not water based paints like acrylics, latex and such and any water based paints that have any toxic chemicals would also state that on the label, and i repeat if you do wonder about a paints toxicity and live in the US just check the labels, the US has some very strict labeling laws when it comes to chemicals of any form.

saw this response somewhere else and it pretty much sums it up:

It is my understanding that most acrylic paints are not toxic when they are used for typical acrylic painting purposes, because they are water-based. The acrylic colors that contain toxic chemicals will have it marked on the label - these include cadmium, cobalt, magnesium, chromium, and lead. They only become toxic when used for airbrushing, or when sanded, or if large amounts are accidentally ingested. For the most part, when you use them for typical acrylic painting purposes (applying them with a brush to the canvas), then they won't be harmful to you.

I hope that helps! Acrylics really are quite safe to use. Since they are water-based, they are easy to clean with soap and water, without the use of any toxic cleaning chemicals. This is one reason why I favor acrylic paint over oil paints.

**Ouze**

I would wash the dishes and never even think about it, ever again.

**queen_annes_revenge**

wow..you must be a bit of a worrier. you'll be fine. acryllic paints are meant for kids too. and if they were toxic I'd be dead from the amount i get when i suck my paintbrushes.

**oldzoggy**

queen_annes_revenge wrote:
wow..you must be a bit of a worrier. you'll be fine. acryllic paints are meant for kids too. and if they were toxic I'd be dead from the amount i get when i suck my paintbrushes.

Lol nope acrylics are not kid safe / food grade, and this is not how toxicology works. You not dying from it isn't the same as harmless ; )

**Vulcan**

The long and short is, dried paint in your dishwater is probably harmless. It's unlikely enough toxic material (assuming there is any) leeched out of the dried paint and onto your dishes to hurt you. Unless your dishes were wood, it's virtually impossible for that toxic material (if any) to have become impregnated into the dish itself.

For safety's sake rewash the dishes and you'll be fine. Odds are you'd be fine even without the rewash, but no point in taking chances when avoiding the risk entirely is that simple.

**ScarletRose**

Lol nope acrylics are not kid safe / food grade

Double lol, of course it's you're not going to paint a cake with acrylics or anything, but the MSDS lists it as non-toxic (I admit I'm working off the MSDS for Apple Barrel which is pretty poor acrylic paint, but I doubt GW is using any of the fancy toxic pigments like cadmium).

I mean I wouldn't go out and start drinking it, but I don't think the OP is anywhere near being trouble on this.

**Lance845**

ScarletRose wrote:
Lol nope acrylics are not kid safe / food grade

Double lol, of course it's you're not going to paint a cake with acrylics or anything, but the MSDS lists it as non-toxic (I admit I'm working off the MSDS for Apple Barrel which is pretty poor acrylic paint, but I doubt GW is using any of the fancy toxic pigments like cadmium).

I mean I wouldn't go out and start drinking it, but I don't think the OP is anywhere near being trouble on this.

How about house paint is mostly acrylic paint and all of it is toxic to ingest (very few anymore use oil or anything else as a base). "Acrylic" and "Water based" are not blanket statements that means paint is safe. Acrylic and water based are just 2 descriptors that describe 2 components in a laundry list of chemicals that are in any bottle of paint. Do I think Crayola acrylic paints are harmful if ingested? No. But model paint is not Crayola and GW does not provide an MSDS and no company provides a MSDS for every color because each color is produced through some combination of many possible pigments added to all the other chemicals that are in that bottle/can/bucket.

Sucking on your paint brush is idiotic.

As has been stated, dried paint in the dishwasher against dishes that are not made of wood is likely just fine. Wash them again because it's basically effortless and is just a sensible precaution. Don't put paint in your mouth. Nobody should have to tell you that but apparently some people need it.

And just to point it out, GW paints are generally considered very good for metallics and bright colors that usually have lots of problems with transparency because they have such high pigment counts. Metallics have actual metal powder in them. You shouldn't be eating metal powder. Some of it can harm your system in very small quantities and some don't. You don't know what combinations of what GW is putting in there. Their right colors like Troll Slayer Orange and the yellows. Yeah, you don't get that bright of a color with that good of a coverage without the toxic pigments.

**ScarletRose**

Sucking on your paint brush is idiotic.

So... you agree with my point? I don't see the problem then.

**Lance845**

I agree with you saying he's probably not in trouble.

I disagree with you saying acrylics are non toxic. Acrylic paint just has acrylic in it. It's one ingredient. It has no bearing on the toxicity of anything else inside the pot. Assuming otherwise is as dumb as drinking it.

**Smacks**

There is probably a whole chemistry set of toxins in your washing up bowl, and the vast majority came through the tap: lead, mercury, arsenic, you name it! Then there is the stuff from your cookware: teflon, chromium, nickel etc... And don't forget your cleaning products, detergents etc... All nasty stuff, which will almost certainly accumulate in your body and give you cancer at some distant point in the future.

A little bit of paint, which probably didn't even end up in your dish water, is the least of your worries.