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Hello fellas. Need some help with a kill team list for a tournament hosted by my FLGS. Please do comment on all with any and all advice regarding playing with or against AM/IG in kill team, or just general advice for it!

Here were two lists I devised

List 1:
_________________________________________________
Vet squad 1:
5 Vets
1 Vet Sargent [Leader]
1 Melta gun [Infiltrate]
1 Grenade launcher
1 Auto cannon [+1 BS]

Vet Squad 2:
6 Vets
1 Vet Sargent
1 Grenade Launcher
1 Auto Cannon [Relentless]

Armored Sentinel (Multi Laser or Heavy Flamer? )
_________________________________________________


List 2
_________________________________________________
Vet Squad 1:
7 Vets
1 Vet Sargent [Leader]
1 Auto cannon [+1 BS]
War gear: Forward Sentries (+1 to cover save. Enemy models may not claim +1 attack for charging)

Vet Squad 2:
7 Vets
1 Vet Sargent
1 Auto Cannon [Preferred Enemy]
War gear: Forward Sentries (+1 to cover save. Enemy models may not claim +1 attack for charging)

Armored Sentinel (Multi Laser or Heavy Flamer? )
_________________________________________________

Weight of dice is usually a good tactic in kill team. The more units, and more shots you can put down range for cheap, is better IMO. You'll need something that can hit probably AV 11 at worst, I'm not sure if the new KT rules have AV limits or not. If you can break your opponents shiny toy before he gets you, or if you can kill his mobs before they reach you, you will win. I would also invest in some LD boosts if available because IG die like dogs

djspeg wrote:
Weight of dice is usually a good tactic in kill team. The more units, and more shots you can put down range for cheap, is better IMO. You'll need something that can hit probably AV 11 at worst, I'm not sure if the new KT rules have AV limits or not. If you can break your opponents shiny toy before he gets you, or if you can kill his mobs before they reach you, you will win. I would also invest in some LD boosts if available because IG die like dogs

It's kinda hard to fit much more firepower than this in a list without going full horde with one or two heavy weapons. Did you have anything in specific in mind?

The best I can think of is an infantry platoon. Thats 130 points, and 25 models. 2 Sargents, 1 platoon commander, and 22 infantry. Adding another regular guardsman squad puts you up +9 guardsman and 1 more Sargent, but puts you at a very hefty 180 points. Just able to squeeze two auto cannons in. But these are regular guardsmen, not vets. So they're BS 3, making the auto cannons fairly useless. And you don't have any vehicles. AV 12 is a monstrosity in kill team if I remember correctly, and having 3 shots of Str 6 seems pretty nice, even on guardsmen BS. in my eyes, if I'm keeping the sentinel (Which I could very well be persuaded not to), you can get the 22 infantry and 3 command models plus the sentinel and have 30 points left over. two auto cannon teams is 20, then 10 points to mess around with.

My line of thinking was to trade the 5 man command squad, (4 guardsmen and the platoon commander) and upgrade all of your units to BS 4 instead of 3, - the sentinel. Making the auto cannons more powerful as one of them can hit on twos, and one of them re rolls ones to hit and pen/wound. So that's how I got to where I'm at now.

Also sadly leadership bumps for guardsmen in this format are practically non-existant. We have vox casters, a 5 point upgrade that allows you to re roll failed leadership tests, but sadly they only effect one model instead of the squad as per kill team rules.

Minor point; you're obliged to include the full 10 men from an option regardless, so you'll have 20 guardsmen base either way.

Having faced something similar to your general structure, I would strongly recommend you consider taking the camo gear option on at least one of them, possibly outfitted with all long range weapons i.e. autocannon and sniper rifles.

The armoured sentinel is still BS 3 so either weight of shots (multilaser/autocannon) or template (H.Flamer, plasma cannon) are probably your best options.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

RussianSabaton wrote:

Also sadly leadership bumps for guardsmen in this format are practically non-existant. We have vox casters, a 5 point upgrade that allows you to re roll failed leadership tests, but sadly they only effect one model instead of the squad as per kill team rules.

Unless there is a specific adaptation that I haven't read yet, vox caster as standard only works on *orders*.

I'm an ork player so when I see BS3 or better I'm all ooh and ahhh. That said, I was just mentioning what strategy I've seen work for my army and others. If AV12 is the limit make sure you have something that can glance it at least, otherwise be prepared to let it do its thing. Deff Dreads are 12s with 3HP, Killa Kans and trukks are 11s/10s.

At range you'll probably only be bested by Tau, in melee, I think almost everyone has a one up on IG.

 malamis wrote:
Minor point; you're obliged to include the full 10 men from an option regardless, so you'll have 20 guardsmen base either way.

Having faced something similar to your general structure, I would strongly recommend you consider taking the camo gear option on at least one of them, possibly outfitted with all long range weapons i.e. autocannon and sniper rifles.

The armoured sentinel is still BS 3 so either weight of shots (multilaser/autocannon) or template (H.Flamer, plasma cannon) are probably your best options.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

RussianSabaton wrote:

Also sadly leadership bumps for guardsmen in this format are practically non-existant. We have vox casters, a 5 point upgrade that allows you to re roll failed leadership tests, but sadly they only effect one model instead of the squad as per kill team rules.

Unless there is a specific adaptation that I haven't read yet, vox caster as standard only works on *orders*.

That is correct, you obliged to take 20 men. My list just breaks down how those men are outfitted. Saying I have 20 vets doesn't really tell anything about a list lol


And you're right about the vox, not an upgrade I take very often.

Any specific reason you recommend the camo gear so highly? I've heard people say how it can be great and next to useless, so I'm a bit torn.

My experience is that Kill Team is absolutely dominated by JSJ units. Things like, unsurprisingly, Eldar Scatter Bikes and Tau Battlesuits.

Both have the firepower to likely kill a model each round of fire. Both have mobility to evade counter-fire. Both have mobility to avoid being assaulted. Assuming you're playing with LOS blocking terrain, it is virtually impossible to counter attack Scatter Bikes, as if you get close, they turbo-boost across the board.

In other words, they're basically untouchable, while having high ROF weapons to easily dispatch the opposition. Kill Team puts IG at it's absolute worst disadvantage, assuming your opponents are playing competitively. Mobility is truly the powerhouse in Kill Team.

Bikes and Jump Pack units are the next most useful, but basic infantry get annihilated while they approach their opposition. If you're playing infantry vs infantry, you've got an interesting game, but otherwise you'll be just stomped.

My only suggestion is to use a Chimera, Vets, and maybe a Sentinel or two. They're tough enough to ignore most weapons in the game, which keeps your duders alive long enough to attack. The Chimera also has access to relatively high ROF weapons in the MuL and HB, so I'd keep both. Rough Riders are viable, if you have them.

Yeah, those units are very easy to abuse, but in a competitive environment I can't afford to tailor a list only to the winning strategy. A list of 10 vets, a chimera, and a sentinel would be shut out pretty hard by any list with any sort of ant-tank. One lascannon shot can wipe out 50% of my list just about. Sure, people don't bring them a lot, but AP 1 and 2 do exist in kill team. And even without it, half of my list in 5 hull points is a very bad spread, even if they are AV 12.

I feel like with only 10 infantry models you just don't have enough on the board, especially them being guardsmen. If I have to get out of the chimera and do something, they can just kill them as they come out of the door lol.

The Chimera has a lot of firepower. No contesting that point. But I have to use it all on one model, making it a lot less effective. (Though, vs bikes and such I'm sure I wouldn't mind the extra firepower.

 greatbigtree wrote:


Both have the firepower to likely kill a model each round of fire. Both have mobility to evade counter-fire. Both have mobility to avoid being assaulted. Assuming you're playing with LOS blocking terrain, it is virtually impossible to counter attack Scatter Bikes, as if you get close, they turbo-boost across the board.

I mean.. a crisis suit with 1 burst cannon is shooting 4 s5ap5 shots at 18", hitting 2, not ignoring cover.. and that's 32 points.. good. but assuming it kills 1 normal vet a round, then 30-42 points earned back, all the while each jump taking a dangerous terrain test, maybe doing some of your work for you.

Guard can bring more bodies than can be destroyed in a game, since you can only shoot at 1 guy at a time, no matter how BA your gun is.
flamer template and the few large blast templates as an exception, but uncommon.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

RussianSabaton wrote:

Yeah, those units are very easy to abuse, but in a competitive environment I can't afford to tailor a list only to the winning strategy. A list of 10 vets, a chimera, and a sentinel would be shut out pretty hard by any list with any sort of ant-tank. One lascannon shot can wipe out 50% of my list just about. Sure, people don't bring them a lot, but AP 1 and 2 do exist in kill team. And even without it, half of my list in 5 hull points is a very bad spread, even if they are AV 12.

I feel like with only 10 infantry models you just don't have enough on the board, especially them being guardsmen. If I have to get out of the chimera and do something, they can just kill them as they come out of the door lol.

The Chimera has a lot of firepower. No contesting that point. But I have to use it all on one model, making it a lot less effective. (Though, vs bikes and such I'm sure I wouldn't mind the extra firepower.

if they bring a las-cannon, just shoot him first. The problem with bringing anti-tank in kill team, is its too many points on 1 model that's to easy to kill through weight of fire. enough las-guns kill a marine, who has the best armor save in the game. auto cannons have table wide range

I played a game using two squads of vets, I was facing Space Marine and it ended in a draw, pretty good game.

it was a simple list, both squads was equiped the same, Grenadiers, an Autocannon, a grenade launcher and a heavy flamer.
The lasgun dudes served a bit like meat shields, and having two autocannons made it easy to scare off any vehicles or skimmers that would show up

I'd consider a Sentinel for its Autocannon and heavy flamer options, only a plus in my book.

Sentinels seem like great units to me. As many basic bodies and as many sentinels would be the first thing I'd try.

I've played against vets in chimeras, and while the Chimera is very good, and well armed, I think a large amount of bodies is probably better.

I will say though, the toughest guard list I've faced was 4+ armor vets in a chimera with as much plasma as they could take, and then one sentinal (armored I think? don't remember... but it had an autocannon).

 xTHExCLINCHERx wrote:


I will say though, the toughest guard list I've faced was 4+ armor vets in a chimera with as much plasma as they could take, and then one sentinal (armored I think? don't remember... but it had an autocannon).

It was probably a tough list because that's 220 points haha.


Sentinels seem great in kill team, but I'm not too sure the auto cannon is worth it on them. It's 5 points and you lose a shot in exchange for +1 Str. When you're hitting on fours, I'm not too sure that's worth it.

if they bring a las-cannon, just shoot him first. The problem with bringing anti-tank in kill team, is its too many points on 1 model that's to easy to kill through weight of fire. enough las-guns kill a marine, who has the best armor save in the game. auto cannons have table wide range

Well that's a nice thought. Have a problem with an enemy unit? Shoot it first! Hahaha that's not always an option sadly. If I go first chances are it's going to be out of LOS with the relentless specialization, and if he goes first, it's kinda hard to hide a chimera. Not saying it's impossible, and I'll usually get a cover save, but it ain't easy. The only way that would work assuming your opponent isn't a total idiot is if you seized the initiate.

Going first isn't guaranteed, but there is little in the scale kill presents that can save a unit your enemy wants dead. Vehicle is a little different, but any given troop should statistically go down to roughly 1/4 your army shooting at it