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If a genestealer kisses a space marine, could his geneseed be compromised?

Assuming so, what if the space marine is a position of power (say the chief apothecary) and is capable of blocking any attempts to screen his geneseed?

What kind of fan fiction have you been reading?

But yes his geneseed would be comprimised. I may be remembering this wrong but wasn't refusing to get his or chapters gene seed inspected the reason why luft huron was denounced a renegade? It has veen a long time since I read the badab war and it may be because he didn't allow the imperium to inspect their gene seed stock rather than personal gene seed.

(On a side note: what if the space marine isn't into french kissing?)

In Space Hulk: The Novel (the version which was released alongside 3rd ed. SH), a Blood Angel Techmarine gets infected and sort of spontaneously mutates into a mewling wreck.

In the audio drama Incorruptible, a Grey Knight is kissed and forced to attack his brothers.
I think his mind remains resilient but his body is controlled, though it;s been a while since I listened to it.

It's not just about geneseed screening. Eventually somebody is going to notice his mutations or strange behavior. Everybody in a Space Marine Chapter is watching everybody else. The Chaplains, the Librarians, the Chapter Master, the Captains, etc.

It's why the fluff tells us only like 50 chapters have fallen to Chaos since the Horus Heresy. In 10,000 years. If you're corrupted, mutated, possessed, etc, somebody almost always finds out, and you gon' get purged. A genestealer cult can hide amongst the dregs and in the dark corners of the Imperium where nobody is watching.

There's nowhere to hide in a Space Marine Chapter, and somebody is always watching. Plus, a genestealer infestation takes "generations" to take root and thrive. Somebody will notice your little third clawed arm, or the strange serfs following you around. And how do you reproduce new Space Marine Brood Brothers? Somebody's going to notice that Initiate Brother Bobicus is a little off and his geneseed is tainted.

So yeah, the chances of a genestealer cult surviving inside a Space Marine chapte, or even a smaller unit, are probably "slim to none". But it's 40K. Anything is possible. But if you're trying to come up with a plausible fluffstification for Genestealer Cult Space Marines, you've got quite a few very tall hurdles to clear.

Yes. There are two examples of an infected marine being controlled by a stealer kiss - a salamander in 'deathwatch' and a grey knight in 'knights of titan'.

Theoretically a particularly canny stealer cult could indeed suborn a chapters' apothecarion and thence the entire chapter.

(In fact the background of a friend's homebrew chapter was precisely this)

Theoretically a particularly canny stealer cult could indeed suborn a chapters' apothecarion and thence the entire chapter.

Sure, except the apothecarion isn't self-contained and independent from the rest of the chapter.

The single most important word to remember is this one: Oversight.

The Chaplains are still overseeing everyone's spiritual health. They're going to notice something wrong.

The Librarians are overseeing the psychic integrity of the chapter. They will notice when there are strange psychic signals, and will certainly eventually notice something wrong.

The Scout Sergeants are overseeing the training up new recruits. They're going to notice something wrong.


Subverting just the apothecarion won't get the job done, because the apothecarion doesn't operate free of oversight. Everybody's nose in a Chapter is in everybody else's business, all of the time. And this is by design, specifically to keep a Chapter from being subverted from the inside. Even the Chapter Master doesn't have unfettered control of the Chapter. If he goes astray, somebody will notice.

 Veteran Sergeant wrote:

Theoretically a particularly canny stealer cult could indeed suborn a chapters' apothecarion and thence the entire chapter.

Sure, except the apothecarion isn't self-contained and independent from the rest of the chapter.

The single most important word to remember is this one: Oversight.

The Chaplains are still overseeing everyone's spiritual health. They're going to notice something wrong.

The Librarians are overseeing the psychic integrity of the chapter. They will notice when there are strange psychic signals, and will certainly eventually notice something wrong.

The Scout Sergeants are overseeing the training up new recruits. They're going to notice something wrong.


Subverting just the apothecarion won't get the job done, because the apothecarion doesn't operate free of oversight. Everybody's nose in a Chapter is in everybody else's business, all of the time. And this is by design, specifically to keep a Chapter from being subverted from the inside. Even the Chapter Master doesn't have unfettered control of the Chapter. If he goes astray, somebody will notice.

Even the honour guard. A body guard is a sword that protects you, but also could turn on you if compromised or you betray your chapter.

 Veteran Sergeant wrote:
But if you're trying to come up with a plausible fluffstification for Genestealer Cult Space Marines, you've got quite a few very tall hurdles to clear.

That's still understating it IMO. :-)

A Genestealer can infect a marine, no problem, but the infection makes him want to found a family and get hybrid children. It would require him to desert (if he's a lone infected being) or take over the whole Chapter. And ofc hiding a purestrain Genestealer in the Fortress-Monastery is going to be hard - everything is well guarded and secured so a rank-and-file marine won't have codes/keys to put his new friend anywhere safe. It's probably even harder for a Genestealer to survive trying to infect a Chapter than it is to survive among Orks.

This is all assuming Marines can get children at all, let alone hybrid ones.

 Ashiraya wrote:
This is all assuming Marines can get children at all, let alone hybrid ones.

Well, that too - the standard infection makes people want to mate and get children but there's nothing telling us what happens if the infected isn't capable of having children in the first place. Maybe he just gets drafted to keep the Genestealer safe?

Yeah there are several stories about soacemarines getting infected. The hard part is that the genetic modifications of becoming a space marine makes you infertile... they don't breed

There was a short story in the 2nd ed tyranid codex, that had a spacemarine implanted, who then takes the ship with its unusual cargo to a near by inhabited world =D

 Ashiraya wrote:
This is all assuming Marines can get children at all, let alone hybrid ones.

I was thinking if it effects the geneseed, when the geneseed is extracted and used on the next aspirant it could create a three way human/Astarte/genestealer hybrid? Who knows!

GodDamUser wrote:
Yeah there are several stories about soacemarines getting infected. The hard part is that the genetic modifications of becoming a space marine makes you infertile... they don't breed

There was a short story in the 2nd ed tyranid codex, that had a spacemarine implanted, who then takes the ship with its unusual cargo to a near by inhabited world =D

I don't think air was ever concluded that Space Marines couldn't breed

The breeding part of the infection is not a inherent part of the infection.

The Patriarch drives the cult to spread through any means necessary. This is often best accomplished by breeding. But in the GSC dex there is a cult that took over a major medicine manufacturing world that placed infected biology into the vaccines and antibiotics being shipped around and off world. It results in a higher number of aberrants and mutations but has spread the cult farther and faster then most others.

A marine Chaplain could very easily infect the geneseed stock. Might administer the "emperors mercy" on a few who don't need it that might detect him and get the infected geneseeds into those new recruits brought in to replace them.

gak, just doing some quick stabilizing in the field might give him ample opportunity to place infected material in other marines in any position within the chapter.

A Chaos Space Marine in the Word Bearers novels gets infected and can feel it changing his geneseed. They don't keep him alive.

In the old "Deathwatch" comic a Salamander gets infected and joins the brood, looking freaky and mutated. It is possible.

FWIW, Marines are made, not bred (assuming that lore hasn't changed). Marines are made by implanting teenage recruits with the genesteed. And, then further medical procedures and training over the following years. Not all recruits survive the severe changes to their physiology.

Assume a Marine could procreate. Would the superhuman DNA pass along to make a superhuman Marine? Would the offspring survive? Or, would the Marine only pass along his "normal" DNA?

What if the Genestealer "infection" is limited to mature Marines, not offspring. So, Marines turned pro-Cult?. What fun is that? It's the malformed hybrids with their genestealer mutations that are the fun part. Otherwise, all we have is Brood Brother Superfriends. Brood Angels? Stealermanders? Ultramagenes?

 Lance845 wrote:
The breeding part of the infection is not a inherent part of the infection.

The Patriarch drives the cult to spread through any means necessary. This is often best accomplished by breeding. But in the GSC dex there is a cult that took over a major medicine manufacturing world that placed infected biology into the vaccines and antibiotics being shipped around and off world. It results in a higher number of aberrants and mutations but has spread the cult farther and faster then most others.

A marine Chaplain could very easily infect the geneseed stock. Might administer the "emperors mercy" on a few who don't need it that might detect him and get the infected geneseeds into those new recruits brought in to replace them.

gak, just doing some quick stabilizing in the field might give him ample opportunity to place infected material in other marines in any position within the chapter.

Even chaplains will have other chaplains watching them.
Everyone is watched. No matter the rank.

 Tactical_Spam wrote:

I don't think air was ever concluded that Space Marines couldn't breed

There was a thing on the details of the augmentation into mak8ng a spacemarine (back in 3rd ed I think) that did mention that the process makes them infertile

 Gobbla wrote:
FWIW, Marines are made, not bred (assuming that lore hasn't changed). Marines are made by implanting teenage recruits with the genesteed. And, then further medical procedures and training over the following years. Not all recruits survive the severe changes to their physiology.

Assume a Marine could procreate. Would the superhuman DNA pass along to make a superhuman Marine? Would the offspring survive? Or, would the Marine only pass along his "normal" DNA?

What if the Genestealer "infection" is limited to mature Marines, not offspring. So, Marines turned pro-Cult?. What fun is that? It's the malformed hybrids with their genestealer mutations that are the fun part. Otherwise, all we have is Brood Brother Superfriends. Brood Angels? Stealermanders? Ultramagenes?

The 'fun' is if the genestealer kiss effects not just the human dna, but the spacemarine's geneseed DNA, then regular humans could be implanted with this spacemarine/genestealer geneseed to create more genestealer/spacemarine hybrids.

Thinking about it, perhaps it would even be possible after several generations of infection/implantation to end up with '5th generation geneseed' that instead of converting a human into a spacemarine some how abracadabras them into a genestealer?

On the one hand, I'm going to hav to agree with those above and say that it would be noticed and shut down way too quickly.

On the other hand, you heretics should all be purged for this line of questioning

nareik wrote:

 Gobbla wrote:
FWIW, Marines are made, not bred (assuming that lore hasn't changed). Marines are made by implanting teenage recruits with the genesteed. And, then further medical procedures and training over the following years. Not all recruits survive the severe changes to their physiology.

Assume a Marine could procreate. Would the superhuman DNA pass along to make a superhuman Marine? Would the offspring survive? Or, would the Marine only pass along his "normal" DNA?

What if the Genestealer "infection" is limited to mature Marines, not offspring. So, Marines turned pro-Cult?. What fun is that? It's the malformed hybrids with their genestealer mutations that are the fun part. Otherwise, all we have is Brood Brother Superfriends. Brood Angels? Stealermanders? Ultramagenes?

The 'fun' is if the genestealer kiss effects not just the human dna, but the spacemarine's geneseed DNA, then regular humans could be implanted with this spacemarine/genestealer geneseed to create more genestealer/spacemarine hybrids.

Thinking about it, perhaps it would even be possible after several generations of infection/implantation to end up with '5th generation geneseed' that instead of converting a human into a spacemarine some how abracadabras them into a genestealer?

OK, for the record, YOUR"fun" is not MY "fun." ;-)

From a practical point of view, Genestealers "infect/infest" to undermine and spread. Not so much to make better Genestealers. And, as Space Hulk proves in every combat, mixing Marine and Genestealer DNA isn't going to make for something stronger, faster, or deadlier than a Genestealer. Nor is it going to make for a hybrid that easily infiltrates the larger society. But, I wont deny, you have worked out the most plausible pathway. And, as the Patriarch always says, " Stealers can't be Choosers."