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Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut







I edited this list a bit. I'm doing something against the grain, by going Tzeentch instead of Nurgle.

++Black Crusade [Primary]++

+Chaos Warband+
Chaos Lord of Tzeentch on Disc w/ Power Fist and Lighting Claw, Spell Familiar, Scrolls of Magnus & Sigil of Corruption: 235 [Warlord]

Bike Sorcerer Sorcerer w/ ML 3 & Last Memory (for ML 4), Bolt Pistol & Force Axe, and Spell Familiar - 145

5 Chaos Space Marines w/ Bolters, Meltagun, and Champion w/ Combi-Melta - 95
-Rhino w/ Dirge Caster - 40

5 Chaos Space Marines w/ Bolters, Meltagun, and Champion w/ Combi-Melta - 95
-Rhino w/ Dirge Caster - 40

3 Chaos Terminators w/ Power Axe/Combi-Melta, and Champion w/ Power Fist/Combi-Flamer - 122

3 Chaos Terminators w/ Power Axe/Combi-Melta, and Champion w/ Power Fist/Combi-Flamer - 122

3 Chaos Bikers of w/ 2 Bike-Mounted Meltaguns, Champion w/ Power Axe - 105

3 Chaos Bikers of w/ 2 Bike-Mounted Meltaguns, Champion w/ Power Axe - 105

Helbrute w/ Power Fist & Plasma Cannon - 110

Helbrute w/ Power Fist & Plasma Cannon - 110

+Spawn Auxiliary+
2 Spawn - 60

2 Spawn - 60

++Daemons CAD++
+HQ+
Disc Herald of Tzeentch w/ ML 3 & Paradox - 145

The Blue Scribes - 81

+Troops+
10 Horrors of Tzeentch - 90

10 Horrors of Tzeentch - 90

Total: 1850

++Army notes++

This may be fragile, but it has several layers of redundancy built into it. I have 6 units with the ability to double-tap Melta or do "Crowd Control" (through Flamers/Grenades), and 4 of them can finish off small squads in assault if needed. The Plasmabrutes can add some suppression (it only takes one well-placed blast to wipe out a good part of a Biker unit, and you declare to Jink before I roll to scatter...) while also forcing "keep away" against smaller squads. It may "only" get 9 Warp Charge, but it automatically casts a summon on 5 due to Paradox, I automatically manifest another Malefic power for free due to Blue Scribes, and I still get 4+D6 to play with among two Psykers that can reroll their Manifestation rolls. The moment I get another Horror unit on the field or Blue Scribes become a Lord of Change, there's more breathing room to play with.

Other than the Herald + Screamers, and the Blue Scribes, the entire army has Objective Secured. I like that. Favored Scions and Path to Glory are nice "side bonuses" (I could potentially turn my Lord into a one-man army with some good rolls), but I find Favored Scions is better as insurance against accidental transformations; the last thing I want is for my Sorcerer to become a Daemon Prince (and lose all his WC) just because he popped a Warp Spider Exarch with a Witchfire!

The Lord and Sorcerer will usually join separate Spawn units Spawn, though the Sorcerer has the option to join a Bike unit and the Lord has the option to "Solo" in some cases. The Spawn give them majority save "-", and a temporary layer of Grav immunity (at least until the rest of the weapons focus on them).

The Lord is a Disc-Lord rather than a Juggerlord or Nurgle Biker. He took the Mark of Tzeentch to get a 3+ Invulnerable and to unlock the Disc, because there are some scenarios where he'll want to assault a target while not dealing with inopportune bubble-wrap, and it's still 5 points cheaper than a Bike + Lightning Claw combo while getting the same number of attacks. In a pinch, it lets him "Solo" as a Psychic hitman, as Jetbike movement gives him a fair few options. If I roll Telepathy or Divination as my "First" Discipline, I probably won't make subsequent rolls for new spells, as Psychic Shriek or Prescience are nice to have.

The Sorcerer will almost always roll on Ectomancy to get Ghoststorm/Soulswitch for mobility, but the other powers are also helpful. He used to have Last Memory, but I felt that by dropping it, I could run 2 units of 2 spawn rather than one of 3, as I like the "MSU" emphasis. Also, 175 points is an awful lot for a 2-wound model, even if said model has the ability to be fairly evasive with castings.

The Herald joins the Screamers, whom serve as his bodyguard while he throws down 5 dice each turn to generate a new unit. Additional Horrors can help, but the punchier Daemons (especially Flesh Hounds) put more pressure on your opponent too.

The Blue Scribes roll on Malefic every turn; they're "semi-reliable" in that while the power they roll is random, it automatically succeeds with the "minimum Warp Charge" needed to manifest. This means the moment he rolls an Incursion or Possession, it's almost like getting 5 Warp Charge with Paradox for cut-rate prices. Since he solos, his plan is to move into a good position, get a power off, then Turbo-Boost to safety.

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2016/10/15 16:51:03


 
   
Made in ca
Pulsating Possessed Space Marine of Slaanesh







Whoops... there doesn't seem to be anything here.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/11/09 21:27:03


3000pts
500 pts
Slaanesh Veteran Marine with Tentacles 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut







Regarding the scrolls, they're pricey, and not strictly cost-effective, but when working in the limits of this formation, I can live with it. In a pinch, Biomancy's Primaris can be used for when I have one WC leftover (BS 5 helps out), while Telekinesis's primaris can be silly against Bikers, so the only real duds are if I get the "shield" power from Pyromancy or the WC 2 power from Tzeentch. Speaking of Tzeentch, Doombolt is a pretty sexy power to have, while the Boon of Mutation blessing may actually be worth playing with thanks to the Favored Scions rule from the formation. The fact I get to roll for my power at the start of my movement phase means I can plan my moves accordingly.

Regarding Combi-Meltas, yes. You can't assault from a transport or from using Ghoststorm to slingshoot units around, and versus big stuff (notably Walkers), you don't want to assault. Mass melta helped me kill my rival's Knight this past monday
   
Made in tw
Been Around the Block




I don't think Tzeentch is strictly bad, I just think you need to support it better.

At 235pts for your Lord, what do you really have? Moves as Jetbike, S4/8, can use a few psychic abilities, and a 3+ inv.

What if you use Black Legion?

Chaos Lord with Power Fist and Lightning Claw, Mark of Tzeentch, the Crucible of Lies -- giving you a 2+inv save (3+ inv reroll 1s). If he's stuck into a squad of Spawn, he becomes T5 through Majority toughness, and you still can give him a bike if you want, and he's cheaper than your lord, clocking in at 165ish.

You can fish for Telepathy - Invisibility, or Ectomancy - Warp Fate, and his squad becomes REALLY tanky. Instead of using 2 squads of Spawn, use 1 Squad and pay a nominal fee for a rerollable Inv save, and possible rerollable armor saves from Warp Fate.

Daemons inflate your list and can cause problems from Warp Storm -- drop them. A Chaos Sorcerer with ML3, Spell Familiar, and Jumppack costs less than your Disc Herald with Paradox, and is much more survivable -- can in fact join the Spawn and benefit from increased Toughness.

Now that you have a resilient tank for your star, attach some nasty CC units to it -- A Lord with the Hand of Darkness, or the Murder Sword.

Terminators are a waste, as are the Helbrutes. Take 1 Squad of Terminators, give them Melta or Plasma and deepstrike them. Use Havocs instead of Helbrutes -- their Rhinos are Obj Secured, and you can actually accomplish something with them.

Exchange the Dirge Casters for Dozer Blades. You're either going to not care about overwatch, or shoot the stuff that you don't want to crush you in overwatch. If you have your buffs up, even DA Grav Spam only hits on 6's for invisibility. If you have Warp Fate, they have to get through a 2++ with rerolls, which means you don't care about them hitting you in overwatch because they can't cause damage, because you just Look Out Sir wounds away if it's dangerous. In a 5 man Spawn star, your majority armor save can be a 6+, so maybe you don't need to care about Grav, too.

If you're gonna go Tzeentch, consider using Ahriman for ML4 AND Infiltrate. You can do some sweet turn 1 charges with decent terrain or first turn and enough Sorcerers to abuse Ectomancy. Ahriman rolling on Biomancy becomes an absolute monster with tools like Lifeleech and Smite, not to mention multiple Doombolt casts.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut







1) I'm aware he's expensive. The Jetbike moves are so he runs solo. Summon a few Screamers or other units, turbo for the opponent's flanks, keep to cover.

2) I tried a Nurgle Bikelord for similar costs.

3) I don't like playing deathstars, and if I was trying for a deathstar, I would go down the Cabal/Daemonkin route.

4) I don't roll on Warpstorm, because the Daemon CAD is not my primary detachment.

5) The Murdersword? Are you serious?

6) I'm aware about obsec. I don't have enough models for auto-havocs. While they're good shots, I'm also used to their static nature making them prone to being alpha-striked. I could see myself doing a "heavy mech" list in the future with them. *shrug*

7) Not running a deathstar.

8) Ahriman doesn't get a Spell Familiar.
   
Made in tw
Been Around the Block




1: A 235pt lord is literally in the ballpark of cost as Chapter Master Smashfucker. Your Lord doesn't have the same resiliency, and barely the same power -- he's just too expensive for little gain. If you just stuck with the Disks and used the jetbike moves on top of Objective Secured, I think that's pretty nifty. But a 235pt Lord who doesn't want to be in Close Combat just sounds like a bad idea.\

2: The Nurgle Bikelord doesn't need to be 235pts to be effective. He's quite happy around 150 and pretty smashy.

3: noted, but that's what Chaos is good at now.

4: Didn't know that -- my mistake, thanks for pointing it out.

5: 100% serious. Most of the Chaos weapon relics were garbage because there was no real way to deliver the weapon. With Traitor's Hate, new delivery options have been introduced, including multiple T1 charge routes. Since you can reliably get into combat with what you want, the Murder Sword actually becomes a viable weapon on the right kind of Lord, since you can pick out who you want -- or don't want to accept challenges, which is a pretty serious problem for Chaos in CC vs strong meleers like Space Wolves.

6: ObSec is such a great reason to play Chaos, and isn't even the shining star of the new Black Crusade Detachment. It's just icing on the cake.

7: noted, but that's what Chaos is good at now.

8: He can still cast 1 WC spells with 50% accuracy, and with Biomancy becomes an actual beast in CC. He gives you a boss Warlord trait to set up T1 charges, helps you control the Psychic Phase with more Warpcharges, and has a special rule that no other model in the game has. The lack of Spell Familiar sucks, but you don't need for him to successfully cast spells for him to be effective. Just by putting him on the table, he is a force multiplier. Not to mention the new 30k Ahriman model looks super sweet!
   
 
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