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So i've been playing 40k for a while and want to break into 30k but haven't been able to because no one in the area actually plays it. Luckily, I plan on moving soon and I know I will be able to get some 30k games going when I get there. That being said, I'm trying to figure out the most cost effective way to get into 30k. With the Betrayel at Calth set and the soon to be released Prospero Burns set I was thinking about getting both and going from there. Anyone think this would be a good start or would my money be best spent else where? I was already looking at doing either a Space Wolves army or maybe Iron Hands so it seemed like at least the Prospero Burns set would be awesome. Anyways, i'd appreciate any advice I can get on this!

One of the biggest difference between 30K and 40K is how squads are configured and equipped, particularly troops. For example, the basic troop unit, the tactical squad is 10-20 marines all armed with bolters. Tactical support and heavy support squads are 5-10 marines, all armed with the same weapon.

The basic squads in 40K, like the Tactical squad with up to 2 special/heavy weapons would be considered a Veteran Tactical Squad, which occupies an Elite slot.

My suggestions would be the following:
1. Buy the Age of Darkness army book. That is your bread and butter army list that all legions build from.
2. Think about what you need to do to preserve the flexibility to use figures in both game systems. HH typically demands more bolter armed marines, so if you can magnetize some of them to take special or heavy weapons, you should do ok.

Last note. Unless you are dealing with some very strict purists, you should be able to using 40K kits to support your 30K habit. I'm making a Blood Angels army. I'm using Death Company bodies with MK IV jump packs. I'm calling them my Signus Prime veterans, who have been heavily retrofitted for the seige of Terra to explain them. I have some figures using the standard tactical marines but with MK IV helmets/shoulder pads, left over from the BaC box. And then I have a few marines made from the BaC kit, but with Death Company/Blood Angels bits for shoulder pads, etc.

Very first thing you should do is pick your faction. 30K is more then just the Legions, but they make up the majority of it.

That being said, if you want to go Marines, you can't go wrong getting one of each box. The Tactical Marine is your bread and butter in this game. Between both boxes, you should also end up with enough special and heavy weapons to make a support and heavy weapon squad as well.

Then figure out what cool toys you want to add to your force. Lots of neat tanks and the like to play with.

 ILegion wrote:
With the Betrayel at Calth set and the soon to be released Prospero Burns set I was thinking about getting both and going from there. Anyone think this would be a good start or would my money be best spent else where?

Two copies of Betrayal at Calth are amazing, since it gives you 60 MkIV marines and enough weapons to equip six man support squads with meltagun, plasmagun, flamer, missile launcher and heavy bolter - I generally (I may have bought, um, 8 copies ) go for meltagun, plasmagun and missile launcher support squads, a ten man veteran squad with a pair of heavy bolters and 32 actual Tacticals in various configurations.

Hopefully you'll be able to do the same with a single copy each of Betrayal at Calth and Burning of Prospero but it depends on the weapons you get - so far the only support weapon we've seen on the MkIIIs is a plasma gun.

 Ifurita wrote:

My suggestions would be the following:
1. Buy the Age of Darkness army book. That is your bread and butter army list that all legions build from.
2. Think about what you need to do to preserve the flexibility to use figures in both game systems. HH typically demands more bolter armed marines, so if you can magnetize some of them to take special or heavy weapons, you should do ok.

This is very helpful. I have been trying to figure out where the actual rules are for 30k and browsing through forge world. I should be able to magnetize not problem to.

 djones520 wrote:
Lots of neat tanks and the like to play with.
/quote]

I've looked at a lot of the FW tanks. There so many i'm not sure exactly where to start haha. I'm leaning towards rhino's and maybe some spartan assault tanks.

 Gashrog wrote:
Two copies of Betrayal at Calth are amazing, since it gives you 60 MkIV marines

Are the tactics in 30k a lot different? Are marines harder to kill in 30k?

Some of the tactics are different. For example, armored ceramite is much more prevalent, so melta spam isn't as effective. Units in general are largers ... 20-man tac squads, 15-man assault squad, etc. The legion specific rules, units, and rites of war really add a lot of flavor without killing balance. There are no formations, but there are alternative force orgs. The nice thing about the rites of war and the alternative force orgs is while they give you a benefit, there is also a downside, unlike some formations which are no brainer autotakes.

Another consideration: Squads are bigger- much bigger. Tactical Squads start at 10 models and go up to 20. Support squads start at 5, and can go up to 10. Note that unless you take a specific Rite of War (think Legion Specific Detachment rules), or certain Legions you will HAVE to take at least two units of Legion Tactical Squads as compulsory troops choices. ALL the models in a squad are armed the same way. Take a 20 model tactical squad, then 19 of them have to have Bolters, with the Sergent having some options. Heavy Support Squad of 10 models? Then 9 of them have heavy weapons (and the Sergeant too if you want) with options for the Sergeant. Basically, all infantry units have to be armed with the same weapon, which can lead to some very powerful and expensive units (like 10 models all armed with Plasma Rifles...). On the other hand, a 20 model tactical squad with 20 bolters using Fury of the Legion is awe inspiring and awesome!

NONE of the Legions have And They Shall Know No Fear. That means leadership tests become VERY important. VERY FEW units have Stubborn, only special characters have Fearless, and only some of the Legions have a special rule that allows you to take a Leadership test while falling back below 50%. This means Standards become a "Must Take" for all your squads.

Psykers are all but unheard of. Librarians are a special category of HQ that can never be your Warlord. They are severally restricted in wargear and powers they can take.

Wargear is significantly different in 30K. Grav weapons are totally different from 40K. A chainsword has stats that are different from a close combat weapon or chainaxe. There are three types of Terminator armor- and they all have different rules. Etc. etc. There are even different types of Bolters- Bolters, Mauler Bolters, Heavy Bolt Guns, you get the picture.

What I'm trying to say is that 30K is not "40K with Forge World models". There are enough significant changes between 30K and 40K that 30K might as well be a completely different game. You really, really need the Legiones Astartes Age of Darkness Army List before you start making army lists or planning purchases.

 Tamwulf wrote:


... only some of the Legions have a special rule that allows you to take a Leadership test while falling back below 50%. This means Standards become a "Must Take" for all your squads.

Not exacly "only a few": the "Legiones Astartes" rule, which all Legions posses allows you regrouping regardless of casualties.

... Grav weapons are totally different from 40k...

Yes and no, you are mostlikely refering to "Graviton" which is Indeed different from Grav, because it is a whole different sort of gun. (which also exists in 40k, see IA Volumen 2, 9 and 10) But the nasty "wound on save" variant also exists in Heresy, it is only Mechanicum exklusiv.

Wow. I didn't realize that 30k was THAT different. I'm definently going to start with the book and read through it a couple times before I buy anything.

I had always just thought it was like 40k with minor changes here and there.

How do you keep the rules deprecated in your head.

Just by reminding yourself everytime that Legion Space Marines aren’t Chapter Space Marines, but a whole separat Army.

Tacticswise I think a good analogy - for non-rite of war lists at least - is orks. A typical ork army will (I may be showing my age here) generally be built around a massed horde of boyz trying to get to the opponents endzone to score a touchdown via one of three methods:

90-boyz in three mobs of 30 that'll be mown down in droves but hopefully have too many for the enemy to kill before they get the job done.
OR
60-boyz in three mobs of 20, mounted in battlewagons - maximum resilience with maximum payload.
OR
60-boyz in six mobs of 10, mounted in trukks - far less resilient, but forces the enemy to divide their fire.

The legion equivalents being footslogging 20-man tacticals, 20-man tacticals mounted in Spartans and 10-man tacticals mounted in Rhinos respectively.

Marines 3+ save means they don't die nearly as fast to small arms as orks do, but they'll be whittled down just as quickly by ten-man lascannon or plasma squads.

Thanks for the advice! I'm going to have to wrap my head around 20 man tac squads with all plasma and what not haha but I at least have a better starting point.

 ILegion wrote:
Wow. I didn't realize that 30k was THAT different. I'm definently going to start with the book and read through it a couple times before I buy anything.

I had always just thought it was like 40k with minor changes here and there.

How do you keep the rules deprecated in your head.

30k uses the 7th edition rule book. However, the army lists and compositions are very different from 40k. There are no formations (yet). It plays strictly by it's own CAD(s).

If you just want Space Marines, you need/want these two books:

https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-US/The-Horus-heresy-legiones-Astartes-Age-of-Darkness-Army-List This is the generic Space Marine units, CAD, etc.

https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-US/The-Horus-Heresy-Legiones-Astartes-Age-of-Darkness-Legions This is the legion-specific gak: Primarchs, Legions' Rites of War, special units, characters, wargear, etc.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ILegion wrote:
Thanks for the advice! I'm going to have to wrap my head around 20 man tac squads with all plasma and what not haha but I at least have a better starting point.

I believe the special and heavy weapons squads are limited to 5-10 marines, not 20.

The tactical, assault, and breacher squads can have 20.

On top of what Kronk linked, if you want to play Blood Angels, Dark Angels, or White Scars, you'll need this book.

https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-US/The-Horus-Heresy-Book-Six-Retribution

It is the only one with their rules.

Not gonna lie. I clicked on this thread by accident... glad I did...

30K actually sounds pretty dope.

Going to do some research on who I might want to play.

And...

oh be right back... I think I hear my wallet sobbing...

 messhallcook wrote:
Not gonna lie. I clicked on this thread by accident... glad I did...

30K actually sounds pretty dope.

Going to do some research on who I might want to play.

And...

oh be right back... I think I hear my wallet sobbing...

Be still you're sobbing wallet, as the Betrayal at Calth and the Burning of Prospero are here, to make entry dirt cheap (like, 150 dollars for a box of terminators, what is basically 3 tactical squads, and a dreadnought/other speical thing + a few HQs. That's a HUGE discount even for 40k!)

 Brennonjw wrote:

 messhallcook wrote:
Not gonna lie. I clicked on this thread by accident... glad I did...

30K actually sounds pretty dope.

Going to do some research on who I might want to play.

And...

oh be right back... I think I hear my wallet sobbing...

Be still you're sobbing wallet, as the Betrayal at Calth and the Burning of Prospero are here, to make entry dirt cheap (like, 150 dollars for a box of terminators, what is basically 3 tactical squads, and a dreadnought/other speical thing + a few HQs. That's a HUGE discount even for 40k!)

You think that. But then when you look at upgrading things and buying more... let's just say I was looking at some things to build on Prospero (it actually would involve 2 boxes). I was up to over $400 not counting the actual price of two Prospero boxes, and still it was mainly marines and one single tank (a Vindicator laser destroyer)

It's cheap to start thanks to the boxes. But make no mistake, heresy is even more expensive than regular 40k when you start adding extras.

Unless you're in Australia or New Zealand of course, then the costs are about the same (thanks GW... not).