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So I, like many here, have been prepping for the Thousand Sons to come out.

But with the release of the Prospero box and seeing the Custodes, I want to field both.

My real question is this: What justification could I use to field an army of Thousand Sons, Custodes, and AdMech? (AdMech shouldn't be difficult, unless the special TS Mech are traitor only )

There were Thousand Sons who weren't on Prospero at the time - Mhotep in Battle for the Abyss, for example. If they distanced themselves from their Legion and surrendered themselves to the Loyalists, they might be let free under supervision.

Not sure if you've played the dawn of war games, but the primary space marine chapter in it, the blood ravens, have all but been confirmed as being loyalist thousand sons.

I recall there was a short story from a 40k anthology that detailed this specifically, and like beast said, it boiled down to the fact that there were thousand sons who didn't succumb to chaos.

The story of the thousand sons is kind of sad, really. Short version is that they were manipulated by horus (and tzeench, for certain) into having no choice but to join horus. Maybe some didn't see it that way.

Any rate. I always thought it would be neat to see a blood ravens chapter.

In the White Scars trilogy, they rescure a Thousand Sons from Prospero who helps guide them back to Terra.

 Kap'n Krump wrote:
Not sure if you've played the dawn of war games, but the primary space marine chapter in it, the blood ravens, have all but been confirmed as being loyalist thousand sons.

It's still up for debate - several GW & BL staff have publicly said Blood Ravens are not a Thousand Sons Successor. For example:

LaurieGoulding wrote:
I know exactly what the deal is with the Blood Ravens...
I also know exactly what the deal is with Revuel Arvida. The two are in NO WAY connected, and people need to stop reading so much into video games from ten years ago.

There could definitely have been Loyalist thousand sons - maybe ex-Terrans who took the Council of Nicaea seriously and attempted to stop being so psychic - I imagine that's the only way the Custodes would be fighting with them.

On the other hand, maybe the whole army and their custodes buddies were out beyond the edge of the galaxy and never got the memo.

AdMech supported every expedition, which lends more weight to the theory if a 'lost' expedition, tied up in another far away war and returning to a galaxy plunged into the Heresy.

I'm not sure how you'll field it, though. Not sure if custodes will require you to use the allies slot. If so, I guess the mechanicum could be a praevian with his robot friends...

beast_gts wrote:

 Kap'n Krump wrote:
Not sure if you've played the dawn of war games, but the primary space marine chapter in it, the blood ravens, have all but been confirmed as being loyalist thousand sons.

It's still up for debate - several GW & BL staff have publicly said Blood Ravens are not a Thousand Sons Successor. For example:

LaurieGoulding wrote:
I know exactly what the deal is with the Blood Ravens...
I also know exactly what the deal is with Revuel Arvida. The two are in NO WAY connected, and people need to stop reading so much into video games from ten years ago.

That'd be great if it were the games which had made the connection(s)...

 Lord Damocles wrote:

beast_gts wrote:

 Kap'n Krump wrote:
Not sure if you've played the dawn of war games, but the primary space marine chapter in it, the blood ravens, have all but been confirmed as being loyalist thousand sons.

It's still up for debate - several GW & BL staff have publicly said Blood Ravens are not a Thousand Sons Successor. For example:

LaurieGoulding wrote:
I know exactly what the deal is with the Blood Ravens...
I also know exactly what the deal is with Revuel Arvida. The two are in NO WAY connected, and people need to stop reading so much into video games from ten years ago.

That'd be great if it were the games which had made the connection(s)...

it doesn't help either that Arhiman was a member of the Cult of the Corvidae; which had the symbol of a black raven’s head......

beast_gts wrote:

 Kap'n Krump wrote:
Not sure if you've played the dawn of war games, but the primary space marine chapter in it, the blood ravens, have all but been confirmed as being loyalist thousand sons.

It's still up for debate - several GW & BL staff have publicly said Blood Ravens are not a Thousand Sons Successor. For example:

LaurieGoulding wrote:
I know exactly what the deal is with the Blood Ravens...
I also know exactly what the deal is with Revuel Arvida. The two are in NO WAY connected, and people need to stop reading so much into video games from ten years ago.

Really? I didn't know they had ever addressed it directly. Who is LaurieGoulding, though, and how does she speak for GW?

At any rate, the biggest evidence to me in favor of blood ravens being loyalist thousand sons is that short story I read. I wish I could remember the name of it, but I distinctly remember it ending with some surviving thousand sons looking at burning prospero and saying "Knowledge is power, guard it well", which is the motto of the blood ravens.

Plus, blood ravens have *mysteriously* lost all record of their founding chapter, and have an inordinate amount of librarians in their ranks and in positions of leadership, which is almost unheard of in space marines. Also, they tend to have just a teeny-tiny issue with heresy every so often.

 Kap'n Krump wrote:

beast_gts wrote:

 Kap'n Krump wrote:
Not sure if you've played the dawn of war games, but the primary space marine chapter in it, the blood ravens, have all but been confirmed as being loyalist thousand sons.

It's still up for debate - several GW & BL staff have publicly said Blood Ravens are not a Thousand Sons Successor. For example:

LaurieGoulding wrote:
I know exactly what the deal is with the Blood Ravens...
I also know exactly what the deal is with Revuel Arvida. The two are in NO WAY connected, and people need to stop reading so much into video games from ten years ago.

Really? I didn't know they had ever addressed it directly. Who is LaurieGoulding, though, and how does she speak for GW?

At any rate, the biggest evidence to me in favor of blood ravens being loyalist thousand sons is that short story I read. I wish I could remember the name of it, but I distinctly remember it ending with some surviving thousand sons looking at burning prospero and saying "Knowledge is power, guard it well", which is the motto of the blood ravens.

Plus, blood ravens have *mysteriously* lost all record of their founding chapter, and have an inordinate amount of librarians in their ranks and in positions of leadership, which is almost unheard of in space marines. Also, they tend to have just a teeny-tiny issue with heresy every so often.

"Knowledge is power, guard it well" is a quote used in 40k since the 2nd edition rule book. Probably even before then.

As mentioned above, they could be loyalists with Custodes "observers".

 Kap'n Krump wrote:

beast_gts wrote:

 Kap'n Krump wrote:
Not sure if you've played the dawn of war games, but the primary space marine chapter in it, the blood ravens, have all but been confirmed as being loyalist thousand sons.

It's still up for debate - several GW & BL staff have publicly said Blood Ravens are not a Thousand Sons Successor. For example:

LaurieGoulding wrote:
I know exactly what the deal is with the Blood Ravens...
I also know exactly what the deal is with Revuel Arvida. The two are in NO WAY connected, and people need to stop reading so much into video games from ten years ago.

Really? I didn't know they had ever addressed it directly. Who is LaurieGoulding, though, and how does she speak for GW?

At any rate, the biggest evidence to me in favor of blood ravens being loyalist thousand sons is that short story I read. I wish I could remember the name of it, but I distinctly remember it ending with some surviving thousand sons looking at burning prospero and saying "Knowledge is power, guard it well", which is the motto of the blood ravens.

Plus, blood ravens have *mysteriously* lost all record of their founding chapter, and have an inordinate amount of librarians in their ranks and in positions of leadership, which is almost unheard of in space marines. Also, they tend to have just a teeny-tiny issue with heresy every so often.

Laurie Goulding is a he and he's one of the Editors for Black Library. He's also on several forums and interacts with the community regularly. He's one of the heads of the Horus Heresy books. If he says there's no connection between the Thousand Sons and Blood Ravens then there most likely isn't.

My mistake, I hadn't heard the 40k-specific 'knowledge is power' phrase outside of the DoW games, but 2nd edition is before my time.

That's all a bit disappointing, I thought that was a rather clever bit of buried lore, even if accidental, so it's a shame to just shut it down.

 Kap'n Krump wrote:
My mistake, I hadn't heard the 40k-specific 'knowledge is power' phrase outside of the DoW games, but 2nd edition is before my time.

That's all a bit disappointing, I thought that was a rather clever bit of buried lore, even if accidental, so it's a shame to just shut it down.

It might not be a uniquely Blood Raven motto, but it is their battlecry, as per Index Astartes: Knowledge is Power [Blood Ravens] (in White Dwarf 305 (UK)).

Thousand Sons ARE loyalists..... everyone who says otherwise is trying to sell you something

Jokes aside, realistically, you can run as any of the many TS who were off of prospero, or run them as a pre-heresy group (or an alternate heresy where russ didn't screw stuff up)

Honestly I'd not trust the lore written by a black-irish leper with a severe case of multilaserophilia.

Are you sure you want to have that opinion given that 'multilaserophilia' isn't a condition or even a word?

 SirDonlad wrote:
Are you sure you want to have that opinion given that 'multilaserophilia' isn't a condition or even a word?

While it may not officially be word, he still has a point. that Lepper is arguably one of the "great" fluff breakers.

Fair enough and totally fine to dislike a writer for being a gak writer - but that isn't what he wrote....

He used "black-irish leper" as a pejorative term - thats not on, but i'm wary of just harrassing people for not holding the same moral standards as me.
I don't have any problems with my fluff being written by a "black-irish leper" as he put it.

Critisize the guy for his work if thats what you feel.

 SirDonlad wrote:
Fair enough and totally fine to dislike a writer for being a gak writer - but that isn't what he wrote....

He used "black-irish leper" as a pejorative term - thats not on, but i'm wary of just harrassing people for not holding the same moral standards as me.
I don't have any problems with my fluff being written by a "black-irish leper" as he put it.

Critisize the guy for his work if thats what you feel.

I do believe that "black-irish leper" is one of those many long running internet jokes spawned from 40k, namely /TG/ ( https://1d4chan.org/wiki/C.S._Goto ) In short, it has more to do with the reason we have "rowboat girlyman" and "our spiritual leige" and "ultra-smurfs," rather than insulting him as a person.

 SirDonlad wrote:
Fair enough and totally fine to dislike a writer for being a gak writer - but that isn't what he wrote....

He used "black-irish leper" as a pejorative term - thats not on, but i'm wary of just harrassing people for not holding the same moral standards as me.
I don't have any problems with my fluff being written by a "black-irish leper" as he put it.

Critisize the guy for his work if thats what you feel.

... Term used widely by tg when referring to him, but hey, your PC hard-on must be satisfied, I understand. Just stop being so self-entitled and come at me if you feel like it, don't try and go take the moral ground when you're just being a snob. Because I'd have problems if said leper made slaaenshi dark eldar, saim-hann eldar looking for a human as a role model for all their future generations. Multilasers in a space marine armory that suddenly change to a different loadout in a single page. fething braying tyranids and a list that luckily doesn't extend too much more due to the guy's career being decapitated on the spot.

Ahh! sorry, never heard that before!





But you can stop getting so offended given that not everyone knows about or cares what may have been put on some far-flung corner of the internet.

If you didn't know about it being an internet 'thing' (as i didn't) then it's quite reasonable to see that as a racist drivel and you should be aware of that.

On a more serious note, please memorize his face so you can properly identify him:

https://1d4chan.org/wiki/File:Csgoto.jpg

Just as a curiosity, this is the only image availavable to anything related with the man.

feth me, the interwebz can be weird sometimes.

 SirDonlad wrote:
Ahh! sorry, never heard that before!





But you can stop getting so offended given that not everyone knows about or cares what may have been put on some far-flung corner of the internet.

If you didn't know about it being an internet 'thing' (as i didn't) then it's quite reasonable to see that as a racist drivel and you should be aware of that.

And that's why I use st google for. Honestly it saves me those MANY moments I could have made a fool of myself.

Nevertheless, I'd not consider goto's books canon AT ALL. Apparently eldar need imperial tanks because we don't have heavy armor, despite it being anathema to the way eldar fight, oh and don't get me started on how somehow the Ulthwe council came to worship SLAANESH.

Why would i want to google what was (to me) quite obviously a string of insults when a doozy of a non-word like 'multilaserophilia' is right next to them?

Thats a totally unreasonable expectation you're proposing to cover the fact that, if you haven't been to that specific webpage then what you wrote comes across pretty badly.

But shame on ME for not having known that huh?

Whatever.

And on a sidenote, don't trust too much Goulding's words. Guy's a cantakerous jerkwad in my experience. Plus he said that the people in warseer (even guests) should get themselves killed, so the guy clearly has a lot of love for the fanbase.
And yet on another sidenote, screw goto with a jackhammer fo the mess that were his DoW books.

Just had a quick read of 4chan's page on Goulding which didn't say much (i was surprised about that) but the blood ravens 4chan page was pretty funny!
https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Blood_Ravens
Shame about that interview; pretty conclusively screws the loyalist TS/blood ravens origins idea.

Yeah, thats quite some attitude he's got there.

Just before the Battle of Prospero, Magnus sent away many of his legionaries away from the planet, half to three quarters of them, to spare them the Emperor's judgement. So yes, there must have been thousands (no pun intended) of them out on the rims of the galaxy while the heresy took place.

Ok, thanks for the feedback everyone!

I think I know what I'll be doing then:
-Loyalist Thousand Sons and Iron Warriors (Because, face it, we all love artillery) are a part of an expeditionary fleet headed for somewhere
-Adeptus Mechanicus accompany them, both of the specific TS flavor, and maybe of the normal type as well.
-Custodes come along to make sure the TS don't get heretical and steal all the relics (wait a minute...) and because the council of Nikea says no more psychic goodness.

This way I can mix and match and play Loyalist or Traitor (Without Custodes)