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As I flick through my codex wondering if I'll ever make up an ork list I'd be happy buying models for, I had a little idea for making them suddenly more competitive, and still orky.

All ork models get Feel no pain.
All nobz have fearless.

This makes the 6+ save Orks a little easier to field, and makes the 4+ armour mobs more points efficient compared to other troops.

The fearless mobs still mean you're reliant on bigger Orks leading the way, but don't have to get bogged down in mob rule rolls. Beware (ork) snipers.

Apologies if this has been thought of before, but it's a simple fix, and very easy to house rule.

You just made Painboyz totally useless.

I'd be hesitant to play this-it's very much a buff, and a strong one at that. Admittedly, I run powerful lists, so I could handle it, but it seems like too much of a band-aid solution.

My ork buddy had an interesting suggestion along these lines. If I recall correctly, it was something to the affect of...

*Ork boyz gain +1 FNP for every 10 models in their unit. So 30 models gets you 4+ FNP, 20-29 gets you 5+, 10-19 gets you 6+, and less than 10 gets you nada.

*Pain boyz work as is, but also add +1 to the above FNP boost.
*Cybork bodies also add +1 to FNP.

That'd be a bit much in my opinion.

30 Boyz, plus a Painboy, plus a Warboss with Cybork grants a 2+ FNP. Add that to Mega Armour and Da Lucky Stick...

Hmm. I may be confusing FNP with an invul save. +1 invul for every 10 boyz in the squad plus 1 for a KFF, and then have cybork bodies stack with FNP.

So you could potentially do a 3+ invul with 4+ FNP if you have a big blob of orks with a mek and pain boy attached, but it gets less durable as you kill boyz.

Just bring back the old mob rule: over 10 strong and the squad is fearless. Simple and orky.

What Orks really need is the old Bosspole. Fearless is good an all but blobs of boyz don't get the job done while our "elite" units get murdered by mob rule table. Having the BP give a reroll at base leadership at the cost of inflicting a single wound (no armor or invuln saves allowed.... like we have any) would help so much with keeping all Orks in the fight.

Also how about giving all Orks 6+ FNP and make the Painboy boost it up to 4+.

Cybork can go back to being 5+ invuln because Orks need an invuln save.

Best way to fix Orks is go back to the old 'no armor save can be better then +4 vs. choppa weapons'

See, I wondered if it was too powerful, but it still isn't as strong as standard necron reanimation protocols. Even with 'eavy armour, it only brings the boys in line with necron warriors.

Even skitarii get army wide 6+ fnp. Iron hands also get 6+ for free with a 3+ armour save.

Painboys can just take a cryptek role of +1 to FNP. Feel no pain is capped at 4+ I think.

As for the stacking with mega armour, well why not? Deathwing command squads do that, and better. I'm not hugely worried by slow and purposeful melee units foot slogging across the battlefield, who still get one shotted by lascannons. Powerffist termies still win in melee against mega-nobz thanks to their invulnerable save.

Thought I'd share some quick fixes GW should employ to make codex Orks a competitive army.

1. Waaagh! Rule allows run and assault but also in addition grants Preferred Enemy (everything) during that turn as well.
2. Cyborg Body needs to be 5++ again!
3. Nobs need a points decrease desparately (being more expensive than their much better armored brethren is ridiculous) which brings me to...
4. Reduce points for Power Klaws to 20 points.
5. Reduce points cost for Orkanauts by roughly 30-50 points and give them Twin-linked Rokkit Launchas (since that how they are modeled).
6. Mob Rule... 15 or more models gain Fearless, less than 15 models ignore failed morale, pinning, AND FEAR tests on a 4+ if they have a character or are locked in combat. Bringing me to...
7. Boss Poles should allow a reroll of the 4+ at the expense of suffering D3 Str 4 AP- Hits to the mob.
8. Deffdreads points cost should be reduced to 60 points base and they should benefit from the Waaagh! Rule while Killa Kanz should be reduced to 40 points base.
9. Trukks should have their Ramshackle rule bumped to a 5+.
10. Zagstruk's Vulcha's Klaws need to give him D3 HoW attacks at Str8 AP2 and he needs to buff Stormboyz in some fashion.
11. Kaptin Badrukk needs to be able to buff Flash Gitz in some fashion (eg. Allow reroll for AP value on Snazzgunz).
12. Kommandos should have Sneaky Gitz rule that allows them to take an Initiative test on the turn they launch assault, if passed it allows them to strike at Initiative 10 during the first round of combat.
13. Warbosses, Big Meks, and all Nob equivalents (looking at you Flash Gitz) should have 'eavy armour standard denoting their status within the ranks of their fellow Orks.
14. Ghazghkull should have the Zealot rule and please Twin-link his Big Shoota since it's modeled that way!

Okay, there's my take on some improvements. Thanks.

Quite like a lot of the above, here's what I'd suggest:

• give all Orks 6+ fnp, painboyz buff this (to 5+?)

• I personally quite like Mob Rule as it is, but needs a bit of tweaking. Make Breaking Heads D3 hits, and Squabble becomes D6 hits at majority base strength of the unit. Keeps the character while stopping it being as harsh. The way I see it, Orks' Ld 7 is more indicative of their lack of discipline, rather than cowardice, so I'm not really into the idea of fearless or whatever.

• fully behind points drop for nobz. Twice what a regular boy costs? No problem with leaving eavy armour as an option though.





Automatically Appended Next Post:
Btw, totally agree with the post above about orkanauts. Make them an assault vehicle too.

 Nazrak wrote:
Quite like a lot of the above, here's what I'd suggest:

• give all Orks 6+ fnp, painboyz buff this (to 5+?)

• I personally quite like Mob Rule as it is, but needs a bit of tweaking. Make Breaking Heads D3 hits, and Squabble becomes D6 hits at majority base strength of the unit. Keeps the character while stopping it being as harsh. The way I see it, Orks' Ld 7 is more indicative of their lack of discipline, rather than cowardice, so I'm not really into the idea of fearless or whatever.

• fully behind points drop for nobz. Twice what a regular boy costs? No problem with leaving eavy armour as an option though.





Automatically Appended Next Post:
Btw, totally agree with the post above about orkanauts. Make them an assault vehicle too.

Wow, you are the first Ork player I've come across that likes the new mob rule. I understand that GW made the new mob rule to help out those smaller elite mobz like MANZ, Flash Gitz, etc. but the D6 hits punishment factor went overboard. I would rather meet criteria in order to get a roll on Mob Rule rather than roll to see if I meet the criteria my result says I need to meet.

v0iddrgn wrote:


Wow, you are the first Ork player I've come across that likes the new mob rule. I understand that GW made the new mob rule to help out those smaller elite mobz like MANZ, Flash Gitz, etc. but the D6 hits punishment factor went overboard. I would rather meet criteria in order to get a roll on Mob Rule rather than roll to see if I meet the criteria my result says I need to meet.

Ha, certainly seems like it! I do agree with you though that it goes overboard in terms of just how badly it can affect a unit. But I like the mechanic and general vibe of it, hence my suggestions for softening the impact of it.

Cybork is a 5pt upgrade that grants a 5++ invul (the way it used to be) Nobz gain access for the entire unit agian

Git Findaz Give +1 BS ALWAYS. So even if the unit moved or is overwatching or Snap shooting it gains +1 BS.

Nobz reduced in price to 12pts a model and come standard with 4+ Eavy Armor
MA Nobz reduced in price by 10pts, lose Slow and purposeful (its literally a nerf it does nothing for them and makes them less effective in CC Where they belong)
Bike Upgrade for nobz is 15pts a model (Currently 27...fething stupid)

Eavy armor drops in price to 2pts a model

Boyz increased to S4

Painboyz give 5+ FNP and reduced to 25pts a model, can be taken as a slotless upgrade to units.

Mob rule becomes D3 hits at S4 Ap- always passed if a character is in the unit, and on a 4+ if no characteris in the unit, Bosspole allows reroll of Leadership tests, mob rule is used against EVERY Test, so fear and everything else.

Trukkz gain 5+ Ramshackle which reduces Pens to glances and glances to NOTHING. When a trukk explodes it does so at S3 not S4 for occupants. (Come stock with a Ram for free so 30pts not 35pts upgraded)

Battle Wagon stay the same price but come stock with a ram and 4 Big shootas/Rokkitzs. Can upgrade everything to TL for 10pts total. Kill Kannon becomes S8 and range 48, Supa Cannon stays the same but becomes a 40pt upgrade, can buy a Git Finda for 25pts.

Mork/Gork: Reduced in price by 75pts, gain Ere we go special rule and TL Rokkitz Gain Ramshackle special rule on a 5+.

PowerKlaws reduced in price to 20pts

Warbikers reduced in price by 1pt

FlashGitz gain Eavy armor and gitfindaz for free, snazz guns get +1 shot.

Lootaz are 15ppm but gain the new Git finda and Eavy armor.

Stormboyz are 10pts a model but come stock with Eavy Armor. Gain assault from Deepstrike (disordered)

Big Choppas Gain AP3

That solves a lot of the problems with the ork codex and brings them up to almost top tier. A number of problems still exist but I got bored

Don't want you thinking I'm following you around these forums and pooh-poohing your suggestions, SM, but I do feel like you've a tendency to approach "fixing" Orks wrong – your solutions often seem to remove any and all drawbacks of a unit, which I think runs the risk of removing a lot of the character of the Orks.

Of course, it's possible we're simply not going to see eye-to-eye on this, but I'm not remotely interested in whether my Orks are "competitive" or "top-tier"; I'm more interested in the army feeling right. And, for example, suddenly giving Orks BS3, as per your gitfinda suggestion, doesn't really feel in keeping with the rest of the army, at least to me.

 Nazrak wrote:
Don't want you thinking I'm following you around these forums and pooh-poohing your suggestions, SM, but I do feel like you've a tendency to approach "fixing" Orks wrong – your solutions often seem to remove any and all drawbacks of a unit, which I think runs the risk of removing a lot of the character of the Orks.

Of course, it's possible we're simply not going to see eye-to-eye on this, but I'm not remotely interested in whether my Orks are "competitive" or "top-tier"; I'm more interested in the army feeling right. And, for example, suddenly giving Orks BS3, as per your gitfinda suggestion, doesn't really feel in keeping with the rest of the army, at least to me.

A big part of an army is whether or not they are competitive. If they aren't then you have to come up with house rules and so much more problems that result from those house rules, and if you want to go to a tournament then your boned from the start.

BS3 would only come from units purchasing Git Findaz. Certain units SHOULD have gitfindaz, I mean lootas have custom heads and equipment that looks like giant targeting equipment. The Larger vehicles should also be able to purchase a git finda. But if you dont like git findaz on certain units thats fine, increase the number of shots to offset how terrible their aim is. At the moment TAU have more Dakka (# of shots) with a better BS and very little randomness then orks have with worse BS and fewer # of shots with lots of randomness.

Supa-Gatler on the Stompa is 2D6 S7 Ap3 shots at BS2....Now you do get to fire that weapon 3 times a round which is nice, but if you roll doubles the gun is useless for the rest of the game. Statistically you should roll doubles 1 out of every 6 throws, so by turn 2 you will now be out of shots. And if you go by the law of averages 2D6 shots = 7 on average at BS2 = 2 hits. So that gun is dishing out (On average) 6 S7 AP3 shots a turn.....not that great, in fact lootas are better at dishing out S7 then a stompa is......Now granted the stompa has a lot of other weapons, but none are really that great except the Deff Kannon.

The Deffstorm Mega Shoota on the Gorkanaut is Heavy 3D6 which averages 10-11 shots a turn, also at BS2 which = 3-4hits at S6 AP4...not exactly scary, a single minimum unit of Scatbikes can put out 12 shots at BS4 S6AP- which will result in 8 hits....difference in price is...noticeable.

So again, Not trying to take away from the flavor of orks, I am just trying to make them more fun to play. At the moment against most armies I know I am going to be picking up a LOT of my units before they get to do anything and that isn't that much fun. IM sure its great fun for my opponents.

You missed Kans and Ghazzy.
This is why I spent so much time trying to fix the ork codex in particular and the 7e rules in general: almost every option orks have is below mediocre.

 gnome_idea_what wrote:
You missed Kans and Ghazzy.
This is why I spent so much time trying to fix the ork codex in particular and the 7e rules in general: almost every option orks have is below mediocre.

Ghaz needs to drop in price by about 15pts, he needs to swing his PK at initiative, and he needs to provide army wide fearless or at least a big bubble. Otherwise why take him ever?

As far as Kanz? Well pretty much every Ork Walker needs to drop in price by a pretty big percentage.

Kanz need to go back to 35pts a model, lose the stupid leadership rule and gain better weapons. Grotzooka needs to be at least a range 24 weapon maybe even 36.

Deff Dreadz, need a 15-20pt reduction Gain 2 attacks base and have the upgrades be a bit cheaper.

Mork/gork drop in price by 40pts and gain MORE DAKKA. Gain access to a git finda as well

Stompa.....200pt drop. Might not even be worth taking then.

ALL Ork walkers need to gain Ere We Go and gain some kind of special rule that allows them to move an extra 6in in the movement phase.

What about alternative buffs like WAAAAGH!
If you make a painboy (or Grotsnik) your Warlord, he and his unit have +1 to FNP.
If you make a Big Mek your warlord, all vehicles get Fixxer Uppers (IWND).

This way you have way more variety and not forced to build an army around a warboss. Maybe add something to Wierdboyz. Something psy-oriented. Maybe Adamantium Will or something. Oh, and bikes for wierdboyz! We really need that.

 koooaei wrote:
What about alternative buffs like WAAAAGH!
If you make a painboy (or Grotsnik) your Warlord, he and his unit have +1 to FNP.
If you make a Big Mek your warlord, all vehicles get Fixxer Uppers (IWND).

This way you have way more variety and not forced to build an army around a warboss. Maybe add something to Wierdboyz. Something psy-oriented. Maybe Adamantium Will or something. Oh, and bikes for wierdboyz! We really need that.

Proving yet again that GW could spend 20 minutes reading Dakkadakka and end up with a lot of really good ideas on how to make the game both better and more balanced. I love that idea.

Orks should be a horde army. I like that they do not spam invun. saves. I do think they need an army wide 6+ FNP. Here's my idea:

Warboss: increase toughness to 6
Nobz: increase toughness to 5; reduce to 14 pts each
Boyz: reduce to 4 pts each
Gretchin: reduce to 2 pts each
Weirdboyz: ie Meks, Painboyz, Weirdboyz, can take 1 of each for every 500 pts? Painboy would increase the FNP by 1, does not stack with multiple painboyz.
Trukks: Reduce to 20 pts each, Ramshackle change to: on a 6+ a penetrating hit is reduced to glancing hit, on a 5+ a glancing hit has no effect.
Burnaboyz: move to troops, reduce to 9 pts each
Bikerboyz: reduce to 14 pts each; if taken in squads larger than 12 then they can be taken as troops
Stormboyz: if taken in squads larger than 18 then they can be taken as troops
Eavy Armor: reduce to 2 pts
Cybork Body: 5+ Invun.

I think formations can be written in a way so that the different klans can be represented on the table.

What they could add to the ork codex...
The Big Boss: WS5 BS2 S6 T7 W4 I3 A5 LD10 SV6
Monstrous Creature, Fear, Extra Bulky, FNP 4+, Stubborn, confers this to squads within 12" of him.
Can't take a warbike
Not sure what he would cost? 115 pts?

Feral Orks: Same cost and stats as boyz, cannot take 'eavy armor but has rage w/furious charge?
Boar Boys: ?

Just some ideas...thoughts, opinions?

14 PPM T5 2W models? No thanks.

Math: Assume "Eavy Armour, for 16 PPM.

One bolter at BS 4 deals (hitting on 3s, wounding on 5s, 4+ save) .11 wounds. They have two, so 18 shots are needed to kill them.

One bolter at BS 4 deals (hitting on 3s, wounding on 4s, 2+ save) .056 wounds to a Terminator. They have one, so 18 shots are needed to kill them.

Nobs are less than half the price. See an issue?

There is nothing wrong with Orks.
Now hear me out.
The game changed around our codex and our codex never adjusted to the changes.
Shooting became more powerful than assault.
Challanges and target priority was added to the game killing our linchpin ICs.
Trukks were nerfed with ramshackle changes
Mob rule was nerfed from fearless.
And on and on until our codex just didn't work well with the current rules.

Str3 ap- assault spam failed to keep up with the numerous assault oriented units with better and better saves. 2+ is no longer the toughest armour in the galaxy And units with tougher more numerous attacks just steamed rolled a blob of tshirts wearing low str no ap assault blobs. Formations entered the game and yet some of the best Ork units never got a formation (warbikers?, mekguns?)

There are numerous threads on how to update aka fix Orks so I won't get to much into individual unit cost based issues here.

However Personally I think Orks need ICs that act as force multipliers.
We need cheap painboys (25pts) who can be added to groups of boys for 5+ fnp to go along with a painboss HQ that grants a fnp buff (such as 5+ fnp with reroll to his unit) and can access an upgraded doc tools (20pts) that acts like a 2+ poisened PK (seriously his fist is huge on that model)
We need nobs to come with each group of boys for free and affordable PKs (15pts) to go with warbosses who can waaagh each turn
We need(15pt) meks who can purchase affordable killsaws (20pts) and affordable kffs (35pts)(that gives a 5++ to shooting and works on friendly models within 6in instead of everyone) these can go with big mek warlords who can make dreads obj secured.
I'd like cheap ML1 weird boys who are squad upgrades that have access to an improved orc psychic power tree.
And ml2 HQ warpeads like the current pskyer with access to the above tree and becomes ML 3 when near 10+ Orks.
For instance how about instead of giving orks 5 mostly useless witch fire powers we get something more useful.
personally I'd like a template psychic power(psychic vomit, this should be our primaris it's the most iconic weirdboy power), beam psychic power (kill bolt) the deepstrike psychic power(da jump), a psychic power that adds 2+str to all models in a unit(aka improved warpath), something that adds defense (but not fnp)such as 4+ invul to the psychers unit (da warpead), a malediction that reduces a single Model toughness by 2 or armour value by 2(new and improved eadbanger) a power that allows models with err we go within 12in of the psycher to reroll to hit (aka Orks have crap bs and almost no twinlinked options for shooting in their entire codex)(call it da waaagh)

I'd like to see most ork named characters as squad upgrades except for ghaz (still LoW) and Maddoc (painboss hq upgrade).

I'd like stickbomb flinga 10pt options on all ork vehicles for a 5++ on the first glance or pen each turn. (Seriously the current stickbomb launcher rules are useless and each model already has access to a bit that can easily represent this same upgrade that's on the wazbom bladtjet)

I'd like ere we go on all ork models including dreads.

I'd like cybork to be a +1 fnp modifier

I'd prefer if the mob rule table was just redone and the waagh supplement gave +2 making it a benefit instead of detriment.

Something like
1- unit fails morale test
2-3- if unit has a character it suffers 1d6 str4 ap-hits and automatically pass if not see 1
4- if unit is in combat automatically pass if not see 3
5- units of 10 or more automatically pass if not see 4
6+- unit is fearless until end of turn

Boss pole adds +1 to roll.
Ghaz supplement adds +2 to roll but increases the breaking heads result +3 hits (a roll of 2-3 on above chart).

Do the above changes and Adjust the cost on a few units And Orks would be a good codex. It becomes a squad army that replys on characters to make the squad competitve but once your opponent snipes out your character models your army starts to break down.
Warbosses- increase movement w waagh (remeber everything including dreads have ere we go) and like nobs improve morale through his new mob rules
Painboss- (and painboys) improve durability through fnp
Big meks- (and meks) improve shooting durability and only form of reliable invul for Orks
Warpeads-(and weirdboys) improve accuracy and general unit based buffs

HQ units tend to be expensive unit upgrades with limited slots whereas the squad upgrades are cheaper but still add up in points and are weaker versions of the hqs.

 Karl the Jarl wrote:
Orks should be a horde army. I like that they do not spam invun. saves. I do think they need an army wide 6+ FNP. Here's my idea:

Warboss: increase toughness to 6
Nobz: increase toughness to 5; reduce to 14 pts each
Boyz: reduce to 4 pts each
Gretchin: reduce to 2 pts each
Weirdboyz: ie Meks, Painboyz, Weirdboyz, can take 1 of each for every 500 pts? Painboy would increase the FNP by 1, does not stack with multiple painboyz.
Trukks: Reduce to 20 pts each, Ramshackle change to: on a 6+ a penetrating hit is reduced to glancing hit, on a 5+ a glancing hit has no effect.
Burnaboyz: move to troops, reduce to 9 pts each
Bikerboyz: reduce to 14 pts each; if taken in squads larger than 12 then they can be taken as troops
Stormboyz: if taken in squads larger than 18 then they can be taken as troops
Eavy Armor: reduce to 2 pts
Cybork Body: 5+ Invun.

I think formations can be written in a way so that the different klans can be represented on the table.

What they could add to the ork codex...
The Big Boss: WS5 BS2 S6 T7 W4 I3 A5 LD10 SV6
Monstrous Creature, Fear, Extra Bulky, FNP 4+, Stubborn, confers this to squads within 12" of him.
Can't take a warbike
Not sure what he would cost? 115 pts?

Feral Orks: Same cost and stats as boyz, cannot take 'eavy armor but has rage w/furious charge?
Boar Boys: ?

Just some ideas...thoughts, opinions?

This would be incredibly, incredibly broken. Boyz do not need to be 4 points. Burnaboyz ABSOLUTELY do not need to be 9 points each. Nobz and Warbosses do not need to be Tougher, and while Nobz do need to be cheaper, making them a mere 14 points AND increasing them to T5 would be incredibly broken. Warbikers are already one of the best units in the codex, they don't need to be 25% cheaper. 'Eavy Armor shouldn't be 2 points, either.

Orks do need a buff, but making their entire codex 30-40% cheaper is absolutely not the way to go. (Not only does that quickly inflate the Power Creep, but it makes them the boring kind of overpowered.)


Honestly, you know what I want from an Orks codex?
I want the 4th Edition Orks codex back. Sure, keep the new Psychic Powers and the fliers and stuff, I guess. New artillery is nice too, for the variety. I suppose the Relics can stick around too, though since most of them aren't really game-changers (Except the Lukky Stikk, which is almost too much of a game changer, and the Big Bosspole which wouldn't be needed,) that's not a big deal. Outside of that?
Just lemme play with my 4th edition Orks, with the verbage updated so that the rules play out like they were supposed to when they were written. The codex wasn't a dominant force by the time it got updated, but at least it had good internal balance.

Waaaghpower wrote:

This would be incredibly, incredibly broken. Boyz do not need to be 4 points. Burnaboyz ABSOLUTELY do not need to be 9 points each. Nobz and Warbosses do not need to be Tougher, and while Nobz do need to be cheaper, making them a mere 14 points AND increasing them to T5 would be incredibly broken. Warbikers are already one of the best units in the codex, they don't need to be 25% cheaper. 'Eavy Armor shouldn't be 2 points, either.

Orks do need a buff, but making their entire codex 30-40% cheaper is absolutely not the way to go. (Not only does that quickly inflate the Power Creep, but it makes them the boring kind of overpowered.)


Honestly, you know what I want from an Orks codex?
I want the 4th Edition Orks codex back. Sure, keep the new Psychic Powers and the fliers and stuff, I guess. New artillery is nice too, for the variety. I suppose the Relics can stick around too, though since most of them aren't really game-changers (Except the Lukky Stikk, which is almost too much of a game changer, and the Big Bosspole which wouldn't be needed,) that's not a big deal. Outside of that?
Just lemme play with my 4th edition Orks, with the verbage updated so that the rules play out like they were supposed to when they were written. The codex wasn't a dominant force by the time it got updated, but at least it had good internal balance.

4th edition Orks would be slightly better but not by much. The power creep is at the point now where if we went back to 4th we would be hands down the worst codex in the game as opposed to right now where we are in the top 2-3 for worst codex.

Ork boyz used to be the best part of an Ork army, with the current power creep taking large units of boyz results in a big dead Ork pile without actually hurting the opponent.

Warbikers need to be 1-2pts cheaper a model, Nobz need to be 4-6pts cheaper a model, i really could go on but I wont.

If you dont want cheaper units then you have to go the other way which is to make them tougher/harder hitting and you seem to be against htat as well.

Take a quick look at our units. To be good you have to have a good ratio of Tough, Cheap and Damage. NONE of our units have those 3 except maybe Warbikers, and then only because of their dakka Gunz. IF you want to keep the prices the same the easiest way to do that and BUFF orks would be to give them better armor or more Toughness. Alternatively you could give them more Damage output in the form of higher Strength and better guns.

When was the last time you saw Zzap Gunz, or Bubblechuckas or a SAG or a large number of other ork weapons used in a competitive list?

Theres a reason for that.

SemperMortis wrote:

Waaaghpower wrote:

This would be incredibly, incredibly broken. Boyz do not need to be 4 points. Burnaboyz ABSOLUTELY do not need to be 9 points each. Nobz and Warbosses do not need to be Tougher, and while Nobz do need to be cheaper, making them a mere 14 points AND increasing them to T5 would be incredibly broken. Warbikers are already one of the best units in the codex, they don't need to be 25% cheaper. 'Eavy Armor shouldn't be 2 points, either.

Orks do need a buff, but making their entire codex 30-40% cheaper is absolutely not the way to go. (Not only does that quickly inflate the Power Creep, but it makes them the boring kind of overpowered.)


Honestly, you know what I want from an Orks codex?
I want the 4th Edition Orks codex back. Sure, keep the new Psychic Powers and the fliers and stuff, I guess. New artillery is nice too, for the variety. I suppose the Relics can stick around too, though since most of them aren't really game-changers (Except the Lukky Stikk, which is almost too much of a game changer, and the Big Bosspole which wouldn't be needed,) that's not a big deal. Outside of that?
Just lemme play with my 4th edition Orks, with the verbage updated so that the rules play out like they were supposed to when they were written. The codex wasn't a dominant force by the time it got updated, but at least it had good internal balance.

4th edition Orks would be slightly better but not by much. The power creep is at the point now where if we went back to 4th we would be hands down the worst codex in the game as opposed to right now where we are in the top 2-3 for worst codex.

Ork boyz used to be the best part of an Ork army, with the current power creep taking large units of boyz results in a big dead Ork pile without actually hurting the opponent.

Warbikers need to be 1-2pts cheaper a model, Nobz need to be 4-6pts cheaper a model, i really could go on but I wont.

If you dont want cheaper units then you have to go the other way which is to make them tougher/harder hitting and you seem to be against htat as well.

Take a quick look at our units. To be good you have to have a good ratio of Tough, Cheap and Damage. NONE of our units have those 3 except maybe Warbikers, and then only because of their dakka Gunz. IF you want to keep the prices the same the easiest way to do that and BUFF orks would be to give them better armor or more Toughness. Alternatively you could give them more Damage output in the form of higher Strength and better guns.

When was the last time you saw Zzap Gunz, or Bubblechuckas or a SAG or a large number of other ork weapons used in a competitive list?

Theres a reason for that.

It's possible to buff units without making their base stats stronger, y'know. Giving Warbikers 4+ Cover at all times instead of +1 Jink if they Turbo-Boost would mean they could constantly fire their guns at full BS without worry. Giving old Mob Rule would reduce casualties from new Mib Rule and generally prevent fleeing, and allow you to sit on objectives constantly. (Also, old Orks got Shootas for free.)
The new Waaagh! Is fine, mostly because they brought back the function of the old Waaagh!, but Ghazzy would become genuinely useful again if they brought back his garunteed 6" run movement.
Access to 5++ would be great. 90pt Battlewagons with useful Deff Rollas would be great.

We need more of those kind of rules, not straight-up cheaper models or better stats. It's versatility and options that we lack, not base stats.

Oh, and things like Zzap Guns and SAGs don't get passed over because of low damage, they get passed over because of unreliability. The SAG averages S7 AP2, which is pretty good, especially in a unit of Kustom Mega Kannons. It's only bad because that S7 AP2 isn't reliable - You might get Double 6s and obliterate your target, sure, but you're just as likely to get Double 1s, or even just roll crappy strength and accomplish nothing.

I have yet to come across a situation where Jinking with warbikers has ever been a problem. I always jink, losing 50% of your durability for a 50% chance to save a bike is worth it, AND TL makes those guns rather deadly still.

Regardless, Free shootas...who cares? Shoota boyz suck. Short range, low strength, low shot BS = useless. 15 Shoota boyz all in range will hit a SM unit 10 times and wound 5 times, against a 3+ save that is 1.5 unsaved wounds. Not exactly frightening.

Battlewagons would be great if they were 90pts again, but only if they CAME with gunz already. Otherwise its just another points investment that you will regret the second you see that your enemy has a handful of Melta or other Anti-tank weapons. As for the Deff Rolla? They gave that to the fething Genestealers.

Zzap, Bubble, SAG are not taken because they are unreliable or in other words, Low probability of inflicting damage, another way to put that is they have LOW DAMAGE OUTPUT!

If you TRIPLED the shots a Zzap Gun fired people still wouldn't take it for the exact same reason.

If you want a quick fix, I can think of one really good thing that would help a lot

Make the boss pole like it was in the 4th edition book: Put a saveable wound on a model in the mob, allow a reroll for any pinning and morale test. This is SO much better than a reroll on the mob rule chart, since then it only exists to prevent your boyz from fleeing on that 1

I have yet to play a game myself (yet hopefully), but I feel kommandoz should have a bs of 3 based off their fluff and all. Hell, I don't even plan on running any kommando models but it just makes sense to me.

This is of course a very small change that wouldn't fix all that much, well probably.

Yeah just adding stats or making things cheaper feels like a handout. We're Orks we don't need victory handed to us we need to make new fun rules to play with. They don't want to give us an invuln fine. New rules for ork characters, let us look out sir in challenges. Ork characters fight dirty and toss lads in the way. A boy tries to sneak a swing in and opponent need to divert attention to swing at him. Now we have a 4++/2++ at the cost of a random Mook but still give the opponent some counterplay. You can't just dive in with your small elite squads challenge out the power klaw and then whittle down Orks until you sweep them. Big mobz of Orks become more useful. It's something unique full of flavor and hilarity.