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First of all, hi everyone. I'm Making the wallet-ravaging mistake of getting back into wargaming after a long hiatus.
As I've not played 40k since 2nd/3rd edition, I'm looking for some advice.

I used to play Eldar so that's what I'm going with this time round.

I bought an army on ebay and so this is what I'll have:

Eldar Wraithknight (Sword and shield)
Eldar Wraithguard With D Scythe x 5
Eldar WraithBlades x 5
Eldar Wraith Lord (Sword and Side Flamer, no weapons mounted)
Eldar War Walkers x 3
Eldar Wave Serpents x 2
Eldar Windriders x 3
Eldar Farseer Skyrunner
Eldar Howling Banshees x 8
Eldar Warp Spiders x 5 including exarch
Eldar Swooping Hawks x 6 including exarch
Eldar Dark Reapers x 5 including exarch
Eldar Farseer And Warlocks (3)

What is your advice on expanding this collection into a usable army for casual games?

I'm thinking I'll need more jetbikes, possibly some shining spears and swapping the banshees for some striking scorpions. A couple of units of guardians as well.
I'm Toying with the idea of getting 6 harlequin sky weavers and the three harlequin hero choices as allies -are they worth it or would I be better spending points & £ elsewhere?

First, welcome to Dakka, and back to the hobby.

That’s a pretty solid collection. For casual games, you just need another troop pick and will do just fine.

You do seem very light on troops. More bikes is a good answer for that. But frankly, all of the option are OK. Bikes are just one of the best things in the game right now.

One thing to keep in mind is formations. If you take units in certain combos, you get some neat special rules. Not that Eldar need them (they are top dog these days) but if you want to be more competitive, it’s something to note. There is a big meta-formation for Eldar, but it has a lot of tax units. Some nice perks though. The formations do make a nice guide for how to grow your army.

Two things about that come to mind. IIRC there is a wraith formation that requires 3 units of wraithguard/blades, a WL, WK, and a spiritseer. You are one wraith unit shy of that.

The other one is the aspect host, where you field 3 units of aspect warriors and gain either +1 WS or BS. So it can pay to think in 3s for aspect squads. This might make it worth it to grab a squad of Dire Avengers over more bikes.

 QuothTheRaven wrote:
First of all, hi everyone. I'm Making the wallet-ravaging mistake of getting back into wargaming after a long hiatus.
As I've not played 40k since 2nd/3rd edition, I'm looking for some advice.

I used to play Eldar so that's what I'm going with this time round.

I bought an army on ebay and so this is what I'll have:

Eldar Wraithknight (Sword and shield)
Eldar Wraithguard With D Scythe x 5
Eldar WraithBlades x 5
Eldar Wraith Lord (Sword and Side Flamer, no weapons mounted)
Eldar War Walkers x 3
Eldar Wave Serpents x 2
Eldar Windriders x 3
Eldar Farseer Skyrunner
Eldar Howling Banshees x 8
Eldar Warp Spiders x 5 including exarch
Eldar Swooping Hawks x 6 including exarch
Eldar Dark Reapers x 5 including exarch
Eldar Farseer And Warlocks (3)

What is your advice on expanding this collection into a usable army for casual games?

I'm thinking I'll need more jetbikes, possibly some shining spears and swapping the banshees for some striking scorpions. A couple of units of guardians as well.
I'm Toying with the idea of getting 6 harlequin sky weavers and the three harlequin hero choices as allies -are they worth it or would I be better spending points & £ elsewhere?

Regarding formations, you're short of just one squad of wraithguards/blades and a Spiritseer to form the Wraith Host.

Another squad of Windriders (keep them with mixed armament or Shuriken Cannons if you intend to play casually, as people tend to get furious about scatter lasers on all bikes) or a squad of Dire Avengers get you mandatory troops for CAD covered, but you'll need more jetbikes (at least 6)+Windrider Warlock+Vyper or 3x Guardian squads +Support battery+Vyper to build a mandatory Battle Host (if you want to build a modern 7th ed decurion style army, not a CAD).

Since you want to play casually, I'll go for CAD builds, as you'll have more options to build different lists from what you already have.

As to Harlequins - Skyweavers are fun to play, as they have more character to them than Windriders, but you'll need a Voidweaver to field their formation, as Harlequins are their own separate codex now. And the three heroes formation is only good for spicing things up, as all three of them will underperform (Death Jesters and Shadowseers are intended to go into squads and Solitaire underperforms in all cases, but in this formation is somewhat more usefull due to Stealth and Shrouded). But allied Harlequins do make craftworlders more interesting to play with and against, so do go down this path

And be prepared to get a lot of frowns and declined games, as some people really do hate Eldar right now, now matter what list you play...

nou wrote:


Regarding formations, you're short of just one squad of wraithguards/blades and a Spiritseer to form the Wraith Host.

Another squad of Windriders (keep them with mixed armament or Shuriken Cannons if you intend to play casually, as people tend to get furious about scatter lasers on all bikes) or a squad of Dire Avengers get you mandatory troops for CAD covered, but you'll need more jetbikes (at least 6)+Windrider Warlock+Vyper or 3x Guardian squads +Support battery+Vyper to build a mandatory Battle Host (if you want to build a modern 7th ed decurion style army, not a CAD).

Since you want to play casually, I'll go for CAD builds, as you'll have more options to build different lists from what you already have.

As to Harlequins - Skyweavers are fun to play, as they have more character to them than Windriders, but you'll need a Voidweaver to field their formation, as Harlequins are their own separate codex now. And the three heroes formation is only good for spicing things up, as all three of them will underperform (Death Jesters and Shadowseers are intended to go into squads and Solitaire underperforms in all cases, but in this formation is somewhat more usefull due to Stealth and Shrouded). But allied Harlequins do make craftworlders more interesting to play with and against, so do go down this path

And be prepared to get a lot of frowns and declined games, as some people really do hate Eldar right now, now matter what list you play...

Hey guys, thanks for the advice.

I'm glad you've confirmed the addition of harlequins, it looks like it would be a fun addition and I always liked them back in the day.

I'm still not sure how the 7th ed army construction works, especially with regards to allies (I think it's minimum 1 HQ, 2 troops then ? Fast attack and ? Elites - if anyone can clear that up for me that'd be great)

So the shopping list currently includes:
1 unit wraithguard & 1 spiritseer to give me the option of fielding the spirit host
6 windriders (good tip on keeping armament mixed, thanks)
2(?) units guardians - I'll build up to the Battle Host in time

If I understand that correctly, I'll be able to field spirit and aspect host formations and have some flexibility in list building.

And allied Harlequins:
1 harlequin character maybe shadowseer ( any recommendations?)
6 sky weaver jetbikes
2 troupes with starweaver transports
^ would this be a legal ally include for a Craftworld army or would I need to add/remove anything?

As an aside, I had got the impression online that the eldar aren't too popular these days, are they now considered OP?
Any of my opponents will have nothing to worry about from a novice player though so hopefully that will mitigate it a bit.

 QuothTheRaven wrote:

nou wrote:


Regarding formations, you're short of just one squad of wraithguards/blades and a Spiritseer to form the Wraith Host.

Another squad of Windriders (keep them with mixed armament or Shuriken Cannons if you intend to play casually, as people tend to get furious about scatter lasers on all bikes) or a squad of Dire Avengers get you mandatory troops for CAD covered, but you'll need more jetbikes (at least 6)+Windrider Warlock+Vyper or 3x Guardian squads +Support battery+Vyper to build a mandatory Battle Host (if you want to build a modern 7th ed decurion style army, not a CAD).

Since you want to play casually, I'll go for CAD builds, as you'll have more options to build different lists from what you already have.

As to Harlequins - Skyweavers are fun to play, as they have more character to them than Windriders, but you'll need a Voidweaver to field their formation, as Harlequins are their own separate codex now. And the three heroes formation is only good for spicing things up, as all three of them will underperform (Death Jesters and Shadowseers are intended to go into squads and Solitaire underperforms in all cases, but in this formation is somewhat more usefull due to Stealth and Shrouded). But allied Harlequins do make craftworlders more interesting to play with and against, so do go down this path

And be prepared to get a lot of frowns and declined games, as some people really do hate Eldar right now, now matter what list you play...

Hey guys, thanks for the advice.

I'm glad you've confirmed the addition of harlequins, it looks like it would be a fun addition and I always liked them back in the day.

I'm still not sure how the 7th ed army construction works, especially with regards to allies (I think it's minimum 1 HQ, 2 troops then ? Fast attack and ? Elites - if anyone can clear that up for me that'd be great)

So the shopping list currently includes:
1 unit wraithguard & 1 spiritseer to give me the option of fielding the spirit host
6 windriders (good tip on keeping armament mixed, thanks)
2(?) units guardians - I'll build up to the Battle Host in time

If I understand that correctly, I'll be able to field spirit and aspect host formations and have some flexibility in list building.

And allied Harlequins:
1 harlequin HQ ( any recommendations?)
6 sky weavers
2 troupes with void weaver transports
^ would this be a legal ally include for a Craftworld army or would I need to add/remove anything?

As an aside, I had got the impression online that the eldar aren't too popular these days, are they now considered OP?
Any of my opponents will have nothing to worry about from a novice player though so hopefully that will mitigate it a bit.

Last to first this time: Harlequins have no HQ choice, so they cannot be included in battle forged ("legal") army via an Allied Detachment. You need to include their rigid formations unfortunately. And Voidweavers are Heavy Support platforms, Starweavers are transports... You should have a look at an actual Harlequin codex before making any purchase decisions, as they are a bit tricky to ally (and to build up collection in a sequence allowing you to field them). A brief list of formation choices, that fit the "ally" purpose is as follows:

Cast of players: 1 Troupe + Shadowseer + Death Jester: all have to be fielded as an inseparable unit
Cegorah's Jest: 1 Troupe, 1 unit of Skyweavers, 1 Voidweaver
Heroes' Path: 1 Solitaire, 1 Death Jester, 1 Shadowseer: all must fight alone.
Faolchu's Blade: 2 units of Skyweavers, 1 Voidweaver

And there are some other, bigger formations, but they won't usually fit as allies (point cost wise). But those four are as you can see quite interchangeable (model wise) and make quite logical inclusions into Craftworld CAD (from casual/fluffy poin of view).

As to 7th ed army building there are many, many ways of it - a standard CAD; a collection of formations; a "superformation" (it is called Craftworld Warhost in case of Eldar, and must consist of one of three possible Battle Hosts plus at least one additional choice - but bear in mind, that most of those additional choices are entire formations, so there is usually no way to pick-and-add a single unit this way); or an "unbound way" that most players don't agree to use. You'll do best by sticking to CAD untill you get a firm grip on how each unit work under 7th ed rules and only use small formations (like Aspect Host or Harlequin's formations) as means of learning formations mechanics or adding allies. And Wraith Host is the only way of fielding an (almost) entirely Wraith army (without troop choices) and definately someone who you got your army from was aiming at it.

And yes, Eldar are considered OP (or "easy mode" army) and there are several reasons for this (I have written a detailed post about it in another thread, so I won't repeat myself here, you can find it in my post history if you're interested), but you can learn to build casual lists with them, so as long as you aim at both you and your opponent having fun it is possible to play them in a "friendly" way. And Harlequins greatly help with that, as they are quite difficult to use efficiently and even harder to master. A quick list of things considered most OP: Windriders with scatter lasers, Wraithknight, Warp Spiders, Aspect Host (especially with 3x Warp Spiders in it), Wraithguard with D-scythes in a Wave Serpent, but you'll find many players, that consider entire codex to be OP.

Last advice - unless you like Guardians and want to field Battle-Host-like Guardian heavy lists they are worse foot troop choice than Dire Avengers. But they will definately keep your lists casual.

nou wrote:


Last to first this time: Harlequins have no HQ choice, so they cannot be included in battle forged ("legal") army via an Allied Detachment. You need to include their rigid formations unfortunately. And Voidweavers are Heavy Support platforms, Starweavers are transports... You should have a look at an actual Harlequin codex before making any purchase decisions, as they are a bit tricky to ally (and to build up collection in a sequence allowing you to field them). A brief list of formation choices, that fit the "ally" purpose is as follows:

Cast of players: 1 Troupe + Shadowseer + Death Jester: all have to be fielded as an inseparable unit
Cegorah's Jest: 1 Troupe, 1 unit of Skyweavers, 1 Voidweaver
Heroes' Path: 1 Solitaire, 1 Death Jester, 1 Shadowseer: all must fight alone.
Faolchu's Blade: 2 units of Skyweavers, 1 Voidweaver

And there are some other, bigger formations, but they won't usually fit as allies (point cost wise). But those four are as you can see quite interchangeable (model wise) and make quite logical inclusions into Craftworld CAD (from casual/fluffy poin of view).

As to 7th ed army building there are many, many ways of it - a standard CAD; a collection of formations; a "superformation" (it is called Craftworld Warhost in case of Eldar, and must consist of one of three possible Battle Hosts plus at least one additional choice - but bear in mind, that most of those additional choices are entire formations, so there is usually no way to pick-and-add a single unit this way); or an "unbound way" that most players don't agree to use. You'll do best by sticking to CAD untill you get a firm grip on how each unit work under 7th ed rules and only use small formations (like Aspect Host or Harlequin's formations) as means of learning formations mechanics or adding allies. And Wraith Host is the only way of fielding an (almost) entirely Wraith army (without troop choices) and definately someone who you got your army from was aiming at it.

And yes, Eldar are considered OP (or "easy mode" army) and there are several reasons for this (I have written a detailed post about it in another thread, so I won't repeat myself here, you can find it in my post history if you're interested), but you can learn to build casual lists with them, so as long as you aim at both you and your opponent having fun it is possible to play them in a "friendly" way. And Harlequins greatly help with that, as they are quite difficult to use efficiently and even harder to master. A quick list of things considered most OP: Windriders with scatter lasers, Wraithknight, Warp Spiders, Aspect Host (especially with 3x Warp Spiders in it), Wraithguard with D-scythes in a Wave Serpent, but you'll find many players, that consider entire codex to be OP.

Last advice - unless you like Guardians and want to field Battle-Host-like Guardian heavy lists they are worse foot troop choice than Dire Avengers. But they will definately keep your lists casual.

Hey, thanks, I'll check out your eldar post.
That's all really good info, thanks for taking the time to share it.

Good to know that the perception of the army I'd field as OP will be mitigated by the inclusion of harlequins. I'll steer clear of the OP combinations you mentioned above as well.

I've had a look through the harlequin codex now and think I understand a bit better.
I'll likely try to include one of either of
Cegorah's Jest: 1 Troupe, 1 unit of Skyweavers, 1 Voidweaver
Faolchu's Blade: 2 units of Skyweavers, 1 Voidweaver
As formations. If I can get hold of the sprues from Death Masque and add four sky weaver jetbikes, that will let me field either formation.

 QuothTheRaven wrote:

nou wrote:


Last to first this time: Harlequins have no HQ choice, so they cannot be included in battle forged ("legal") army via an Allied Detachment. You need to include their rigid formations unfortunately. And Voidweavers are Heavy Support platforms, Starweavers are transports... You should have a look at an actual Harlequin codex before making any purchase decisions, as they are a bit tricky to ally (and to build up collection in a sequence allowing you to field them). A brief list of formation choices, that fit the "ally" purpose is as follows:

Cast of players: 1 Troupe + Shadowseer + Death Jester: all have to be fielded as an inseparable unit
Cegorah's Jest: 1 Troupe, 1 unit of Skyweavers, 1 Voidweaver
Heroes' Path: 1 Solitaire, 1 Death Jester, 1 Shadowseer: all must fight alone.
Faolchu's Blade: 2 units of Skyweavers, 1 Voidweaver

And there are some other, bigger formations, but they won't usually fit as allies (point cost wise). But those four are as you can see quite interchangeable (model wise) and make quite logical inclusions into Craftworld CAD (from casual/fluffy poin of view).

As to 7th ed army building there are many, many ways of it - a standard CAD; a collection of formations; a "superformation" (it is called Craftworld Warhost in case of Eldar, and must consist of one of three possible Battle Hosts plus at least one additional choice - but bear in mind, that most of those additional choices are entire formations, so there is usually no way to pick-and-add a single unit this way); or an "unbound way" that most players don't agree to use. You'll do best by sticking to CAD untill you get a firm grip on how each unit work under 7th ed rules and only use small formations (like Aspect Host or Harlequin's formations) as means of learning formations mechanics or adding allies. And Wraith Host is the only way of fielding an (almost) entirely Wraith army (without troop choices) and definately someone who you got your army from was aiming at it.

And yes, Eldar are considered OP (or "easy mode" army) and there are several reasons for this (I have written a detailed post about it in another thread, so I won't repeat myself here, you can find it in my post history if you're interested), but you can learn to build casual lists with them, so as long as you aim at both you and your opponent having fun it is possible to play them in a "friendly" way. And Harlequins greatly help with that, as they are quite difficult to use efficiently and even harder to master. A quick list of things considered most OP: Windriders with scatter lasers, Wraithknight, Warp Spiders, Aspect Host (especially with 3x Warp Spiders in it), Wraithguard with D-scythes in a Wave Serpent, but you'll find many players, that consider entire codex to be OP.

Last advice - unless you like Guardians and want to field Battle-Host-like Guardian heavy lists they are worse foot troop choice than Dire Avengers. But they will definately keep your lists casual.

Hey, thanks, I'll check out your eldar post.
That's all really good info, thanks for taking the time to share it.

Good to know that the perception of the army I'd field as OP will be mitigated by the inclusion of harlequins. I'll steer clear of the OP combinations you mentioned above as well.

I've had a look through the harlequin codex now and think I understand a bit better.
I'll likely try to include one of either of
Cegorah's Jest: 1 Troupe, 1 unit of Skyweavers, 1 Voidweaver
Faolchu's Blade: 2 units of Skyweavers, 1 Voidweaver
As formations. If I can get hold of the sprues from Death Masque and add four sky weaver jetbikes, that will let me field either formation.

Happy to help. Cheers!

First off all welcome back and especially to the pointy ears of 40k .

Eldar are really competitive due to some units being very effective (undercosted). Thing is that our codex is very well written and there aren't really any terribad units in it.

On to the list. Troops on formation like Guardian battle host, or windrider host or Guardian stormhost don't have objective secured. They give minimal benefits compared to loosing objective secured on scat bikes for example. Eldar are better to field a CAD to begin and add a formation like aspect host if they need to.

As already said main offenders are scat bikes, wraithknight and warp spiders. Spam those units and people are gonna cry OP all over the place.

Some noteworthy units that you can look into.

Autarch on bike joining a unit of shinning spears. Autarch gets a lance and banshee mask (no overwatch on assault). Spears have a devastating charge and can wreck any vehicle with ease.

Hemlocks. Two D-blasts (at -1 though) and an ultra mobile psychic shriek. A 12" leadership penalty and a second psychic power is the cherry on top. I use two all the time and if they are ignored they can cause havoc.

Crimson hunter formation. 3 crimson hunters (one of them is an exarch). Need something that flies removed? They are the solution for your problem. Preferred enemy, exarch rerolls failed pens, they get a +4 cover which they reroll if they they jink and if death from the skies supplement is used they ignore cover against air targets.

Hornets. These little devils come from Forgeworld and they are what a Vyper dreams to be. 2 pulse lasers, scout and a special rule that allows them to snap shoot after moving flat out with AV 11. I can't say enough good things about Hornets, proxy them if you need to but they are a must buy for me.

Hope I helped.

I do like the look of the hornets.
Trying to keep costs down just now though so it'll be future purchase once I have my main Craftworld/Harlequins force put together i think.
Ditto the big flier models.

Thanks for the input.

I've noticed a lot of people paint models with an airbrush these days. Kinda seems like cheating somehow, but eldar, especially harlequins really seem to benefit from the smooth colour gradients. Might need to consider one of those as trying to get smooth colour transitions over large flat areas with a brush will be super time-consuming.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
So I've now got the rulebook but it's quite vague re:allies. Are there really no restrictions on how many points of allies you take?
I had originally thought about making an Ulthwe Craftworld army with harlequins as it fits the current fluff well, but having gone over the rulebook, it encourages more freedom of composition than I had expected.

I'm now considering a minor-Craftworld army that had taken a beating with a pragmatic outlook in that it had a lot of outcasts: a renegade theme consisting of mainly Craftworld eldar (not strong on disciplined aspect units, but forced to use wraith units and morally questionable allies of necessity) including harlequins and dark eldar units.

From the advice I've been given, watering down Craftworld eldar with the other two race options would make it less OP, more challenging to play and more fun for my opponent. I can't see much of a downside here.


My questions on this front would be:
A) would that be received well in casual games?
B) if so, what would you recommend from each army?
C) is there a minimum points/formation requirement for the main(Craftworld) army?

 QuothTheRaven wrote:
C) is there a minimum points/formation requirement for the main(Craftworld) army?

Not really. If you really wanted to go small, all you would need is 1 HQ and 1 Troops unit (Allied Detatchment), but that limits you to 1 Heavy Support, 1 Elite, and 1 Fast Attack.

Go for the standard CAD, and you just need 1 HQ and 2 Troops units; fill in whatever else you want as needed.

Really, the "limits" all depend on which units and formations you like. There is no rule for "your primary formation must have x% of your total points."

If you are going to tournaments, a lot will limit you to 3 formations/detatchments total (but I think a "meta formation" still only counts as one - don't quote me, ask the TO).