Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hi guys,
I'd like to ask you for some feedback on a list that i've come up with recently:
Running them as a Black Legion:
Core(Chaos Warband):
Chaos Lord (MoN,bike,power axe, blight grenades, sigil of corruption,melta bombs) -150 pts
2x Chaos Space Marines (10-men squads with 2x meltaguns in a Rhino) - 2x195 pts
Chaos Chosen (5-men squad with 4 plasmas in a rhino) - 185 pts
Chaos Havocs (5-men squad with 4 MLs) -135 pts
Chaos Bikes (5-men squads with MoN, champ has meltabombs) - 180 pts
Chaos Bikes (5-men squads with MoN) - 175 pts
Auxillary(Veterans of the Legion):
2x Noise Marines (5-men squads with blastmaster)- 2x 125 pts
1499/1500 pts
I' looking mostly at variations of this kinda build. I know that there are some suboptimal choices (power axe on Lord- but i have him modeled that way and he looks badass and i like it ) but i'm not asking you to turn it into some tournament, hardcore PG list. Just your thoughts and maybe help. Any constructive feedback will be appriciated

I would make a suggestion of Autocannons instead of Missile Launchers on the Havocs.

Also, I feel that 3 Terminators with Plasma is a bit better than 5 Chosen in a Rhino -- you can get them where they need to be more quickly, and the price is nearly half of the Chosen's point cost. Give that extra Rhino to the Havocs and enjoy 35pt objective secured tankshocks.

Maybe 10 men for CSM is too much -- 2x 5 CSM with Melta and Combi Melta is sufficient.

Did you give the bike squads special weapons? If you just want the resiliency of T6, Spawn do it better with 3 wounds apiece, and give your Lord a nice place to Chill out.

I feel you're missing out on the true strength of the Black Crusade Detachment -- up to 6 Sorcerers! Maybe you can find a place for them?

I've considered what you've written and came up with a modified version (which i think is a better list overall):
Chaos Warband:(Core)
Chaos Lord (Bike, MoN, power axe, SoC, blight grenades) -145 pts
Chaos Sorcerer (bike, force axe, SoC, ML3, spell familliar) -170 pts
2x Chaos Space Marines (10 men squads, 2x melta, rhino) - 2x 195 pts
2x Chaos Bikers (5 men squads, power sword on champ, 2x meltagun) -2 x 145 pts
Chaos Terminators (3 men squad, 2x combi-plasma) - 105 pts
Havocs (5 men squad, 4x autocannon, rhino) -150 pts
Veterans of the Legions:(Auxillary):
2x Noise Marines (5 men squads, 1x blastmaster) -2x 125 pts
1500/1500 pts
Now the termies go into a Havocs rhino and can push through the center of the table with CSMs, bikers for flanking, supported by characters (probably a Telepathy for sorc), havocs and noise marines hold backline objectives while having enough ranged punch to support the front lines.
I'm taking 10 man squads of CSM because i think that smaller squads are kinda uncertain when it comes to actual combat and they also get shot off the table really quickly while 10 man squads have more staying power while being relatively cheap.

I don't believe models with Terminator armor can go into a Rhino.

I believe your Biker Squads are too large -- consider this. One Biker is about 30pts, with a 3+ armor save, 4+ jink, 2 attacks, but three of your bikers are not going to be effective against any target but 5+ armor.

If you drop the 2+2 extra, thats nearly 120 pts saved. You can take almost 4 Spawn for that much -- no armor save, but T5(T6 with MoN and 3 wounds apiece! That's 12 wounds that don't worry about Instant Death instead of a measly 4. It also gives your Lord and Sorcerer a comfortable place to hide.

Smaller squads aren't meant for combat. They're fire and forget. Place them on an objective, or give them a goal, and if they do it, great. If they fail, it's no problem, you haven't lost many points. You're spending points on the 5 Marines with a decent statline, but that's 65ptsx2 you could be using elsewhere on more effective units!

Multiple, minimum squads is the way to go with the new Black Crusade Detachment -- you can take the effective stuff easily now, no more constrictions in Force Organization -- so do it!

The terminators could be replaced by Havocs with two real plasmaguns for the same cost and being able to use a Rhino.

Power Ax on an assaulting bikelord? You pay for I5, so buy a claw or relic instead

I agree with rusty4tw on the bike squads - 2x5 bikes is simply too much, even with a Sorceror. Drop at least one squad to 3 bikes, 2 meltas and nothiing more (maybe a meltabomb for the AC) and get MoN Spawns for ablative wounds.

To spend 400/1500 points on units sitting in your deployment zone is ... suboptimal. You pay a lot for those small blasts. Better would be to run the Noise Marines with sonic blasters and extra ccw.

You need some long distance anti tank/anti MC other than the autocannons.

The terminators could be replaced by Havocs with two real plasmaguns for the same cost and being able to use a Rhino.

He has to take something as a choice, as it's required for the Chaos Warband. 3x Terminator with 3 combiplas, 2 axe, 1 sword is cheap and easy.