Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

So if i wound a model with a multiple wound hit, IE this weapon causes D3 wounds.

Do they have to save that single hit or suffer 3 wounds? or save against each wound.

There is no actual rule about this since it's not a core mechanic so it happens on a case by case basis.

Do you have a specific situation in mind?

Let's say Torsion Cannons. Just the first one I know of that does that.

Edit: Or a Vindicare's Turbo-Pen round.

Most if not all multi wound hits are off of one failed save.

Eg. Vindicare turbo pens hits/successfully wounds vs a terminator armored 2 wound model... say a gk paladin. He rolls 5+ invulnerable (Vindicare is ap2) and saves he takes no wounds.

Correct, most rules that do this have a certain number of shots/hits that cause a certain number of saves. It is only the failed saves that get multiplied into more wounds. The wounding is almost always: 'a model that suffers an ""unsaved"" wound caused X number of wounds instead'

Let's use swarms and vulnerable to blasts/template for example: I use my flamer on your Nurglings getting 2 hits, thus roll 2 wounds.
Let's say both of those rolls succeed in wounding, the Nurgling player only needs to roll 2 saves.
If he makes both, nothing happens.
If he fails 1, he takes 2 wounds
If he fails both, he takes 4 wounds

Now lets add a layer to this an say my flamer is Str6 (thereby would cause Instant death.)
Those 2 hits I got, roll 2 wound rolls, let's say both wound.
Since we roll those 2 saves 1 at a time, the first Nurgling would die to a failed save and any "doubling" of wounds is lost, since the model that took the wound is now dead.
Effectively meaning that in 7th ed ID trumps Vulnerable to blasts, whereas in prior editions it would stack.

-

 CrownAxe wrote:
There is no actual rule about this since it's not a core mechanic so it happens on a case by case basis.

Do you have a specific situation in mind?

The specific example is with a turbo pen round on the vindicare assassin which states that if you wound the target inflict D3 wounds instead.

Do they save the single shot? or the 3 (Potential) wounds separately?

In the case of the Turbo-Penetrator rounds from a Vindicare's Exitus Rifle, the wording does not have the "unsaved" qualifier mentioned by Galef, instead noting "shots from a turbo-penetrator round inflict d3 wounds, rather than just 1."

As such, it replaces the default wound value the shot inflicts (1) with a new wound value (1d3), and so the target would have to take 1d3 saves (if it has any to use).

Not really pertinant to the OP neccesarilly, but me and my buddy were discussing the Vindicare and multiple saves on the turbopenetrator, and from they way it is worded, while clearly not RAI, we're both now of the opinion that from a strictly RAW standpoint, that round can kill multiple models.What are your guys take on that?

Aegis1650 wrote:
Not really pertinant to the OP neccesarilly, but me and my buddy were discussing the Vindicare and multiple saves on the turbopenetrator, and from they way it is worded, while clearly not RAI, we're both now of the opinion that from a strictly RAW standpoint, that round can kill multiple models.What are your guys take on that?

It doesn't work because you can only allocate a wound to a model from a wound poll which the multi-iwounds would be in

 Unusual Suspect wrote:
In the case of the Turbo-Penetrator rounds from a Vindicare's Exitus Rifle, the wording does not have the "unsaved" qualifier mentioned by Galef, instead noting "shots from a turbo-penetrator round inflict d3 wounds, rather than just 1.

Ah, if it says "inflict" wounds, it implies that the wound has been unsaved. A models does not "take" wounds until any available saves have been failed.
Just because you successfully roll to-wound a model, does not mean any wounds have been "inflicted" yet.

Just my $0.02

-

 CrownAxe wrote:

Aegis1650 wrote:
Not really pertinant to the OP neccesarilly, but me and my buddy were discussing the Vindicare and multiple saves on the turbopenetrator, and from they way it is worded, while clearly not RAI, we're both now of the opinion that from a strictly RAW standpoint, that round can kill multiple models.What are your guys take on that?

It doesn't work because you can only allocate a wound to a model from a wound poll which the multi-iwounds would be in

Except I quoted the exact wording, and it doesn't inflict a wound that becomes multiple wounds or modify a wound to become multiple wounds - rather, the shot inflicts multiple wounds instead of a wound.

By a strict RAW standpoint, I agree it would spread among models. By RAI, I also agree it shouldn't (at least, not for single-model units), though given the name of the round (Turbo-PENETRATOR) and the trope of awesomesauce snipers getting multiple headshots with a single bullet, it may not even be against RAI to allow the wounds to spread.

Slightly related - D weapons cause multiple wounds and you only roll a single save per hit from them. This was confirmed in the FAQ First Draft. Destroyer weapons also lack the "unsaved" qualifier that Galef mentioned. Destroyer is worded that the model suffers a hit that wounds automatically and causes the model to lose X number of Wounds instead of 1.

Right, anytime a rule says "inflicts" a wound or that a model "suffers" a wound, and does NOT have permission to bypass saving throws, said rule cannot multiple wounds UNTIL those wounds are inflicted/suffered (i.e. after failed saving throws). Successfully making the to-wound roll does not count as "wounds inflicted/suffered"

So the proper sequence for Turbo penetrator rounds is:

Roll 1 dice to hit, if successful:
Roll 1 dice to wound, if successful:
Roll 1 saving throw (if applicable), if failed:
Roll D3 wounds

-

So are we now discussing if the turbo pen can wound multiple models if shot into a unit of say, tac marines?


If so, before i can give my opinion on it i need to know, are you forced to take precision strikes/shots? All of the vindicares shots are precision, so in the case of shooting into a unit with a turbo pen, imo i think you as the shooter, can make 2 choices.

After you roll to hit, you make the following choices.

A) a precision shot on a single model

B) firing at the unit as a whole

You then roll to wound, and roll how many wounds, for arguments sake we say you get 3 wounds.

now IMO, so what ever that is worth.

if A
The targeted model only gets one save, if failed 3 wounds are inflicted

If B
The targeted unit acts as if it just took 3 wounds to be allocated, and my take saves on it.

the logic for me is this

A: is a precision shot with a high powered round meant to inflict large amounts of damage, thus a model taking multiple wounds from a single shot represents that.

B: the shot is fired into the unit, and because its a "Turbo-penetrator" it punches through multiple targets. Think lining up a bunch of targets and the bullet going through them all, same concepts.

Assassins in general have a lot of interesting rules, and i think being able to choose between these two give them more flavor, and in essence usefulness.