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What is the best way to beat someone who castles up? In this case my opponent used 5 rhino's/razorbacks to shield his guys and even when destroyed the wrecks provide cover so his models couldn't be shot.

With all your missile-plasma you should be packing, I'd hide too and win on vp's.

lol, that is kind of what I was thinking, disable his tanks from afar and make him get there slower, problem is that he will always make it to the middle first, I guess I could always just use the old 'static' standby which is how I normally play, I think I am partly intimidated by this particular friend/opponent so I tend to end up throwing my normal strategies out the window.

It would be better to know what forces you use. 

 

It sounds like he's actually moving to the center and using the rhinos as mobile LOS thereafter, not castling. I used something similar with my IW's -  a sort of aggressive counterassult to keep them back from my heavies and broken up for the oblits service their extermination needs.

If that is the strategy ambush him.  Set up your forces to hit him as he moves, which is what he thinks you will do, and then positioned to close him up when he moves into the center.  Bottle him up by blowing his rides and then go for objectives, and stragglers.

 

 

You know that once you wreck his transports, you can hide for the rest of the game and you will win, unless it is objective capturing.

In this case it was center of the board, he got first turn which put his transports almost smack dab in the center of the board.

I'm going to take a shot in the dark here and say you were playing John Beck. Take 2 Whirlwinds. It will force him to spread out and castling effectively will be harder. Concentrate on 1 squad until it is no longer scoring. You might even get a failed pin check. 2 Whirlwinds is not a sure shot but it will make him play differently. And then try to assault him. I know he keeps those dreads for counter charge though.

Well, this honestly doesn't sound very difficult to deal with, so I'm not clear where you're having issues.

See, this guy you're describing is spending points on Rhinos/Razorbacks, and then using them as cover. Neither of these models are particularly good investments, especially when they're not transporting anything anywhere. I mean, 58 points for a Stormbolter hiding behind AV11? That's not a value.

The only time to use a Rhino is when you really need speed, and you have a way to take the pressure off of it. For example, I use a Rhino in my Blood Angels list, cause I want to get 10 Marines up front with the Jump Packs, and because there's a Baal Pred and a Vindicator around to attract the anti-tank. Even then, that Rhino probably wouldn't be in the list if not for the Forgeworld doors I wanted to paint, and for the fact that Blood Angels are broken enough to make up for the liability of it.

Anyway... Let's assume he's got 5 Rhinos. That's 290 points. You can't outshoot somebody that's starting with 290 points less shooting than you?

You can't outshoot him when you're killing Rhinos, entangling the squads inside, etc?

I realize you can't kill everything on Turn 1, and he can use Smoke to avoid too much enganglement, but AV11 is AV11. It sucks. You should be able to kill his tanks, blow at least a few up (kill passengers, entangle others), etc. Let him hide behind the wrecks, if you can't see him, he can't see you. You've been shooting since Turn 1. He's been riding around, then getting entangled, then hiding behind wrecks, and losing 290 points for the priviledge.

All in all, it's an odd question you ask.. Like, transports were completely nerfed in 4th, to the point of being a liability, and this guy's strategy is to load up on them... That's goofy. Sounds like he knows how to play it, but it also sounds like you're letting yourself get all flustered. I'm not sure what list you're playing, but I'd expect my Tau list to kill every vehicle in his list within two turns. AV11 is junk. Rhinos stay alive by hiding, or by being around other, more threatening things. When you shoot them, they burn.

I agree with Phryix: This strategy is easy to counter. If you are playing IG a griffon with inferno shells would be a great way to counter this. But this strategy is only good for the first turn, how it is effecting your other turns is a mystery. What army are you playing again? Let's see a list and maybe we can offer more input. Capt K

I was playing Tau, I guess a couple broadsides with ASS would have helped although I didn't have any at the time (just picked up two though so that should solve that problem.)

The objective was table center, so the problem was that he got first move and had his rhinos in the middle of the table, I killed all but 1 first turn and got one squad under scoring. We didn't actually have time to finish the game and he thinks the best he could have come out with was a draw but it was a frustrating thing to play against.

@davey, of course if I was playing marines I would have had a couple of whirlies

Hammerheads fireing submunition rounds should do the trick. If he's all bunched up those pie plates are going to do a number on him cover or not. Just use other stuff to pop the transports first...or if you can work it out, just move around him and blaze him up from behind.

Edit:

Now that I think about it a little more...if you are playing tau, cover should be mostly worthless to your marine friend.  The vast majority of tau weapons do not punch though 3+ saves...so 4+ cover saves are pointless (something that is generaly lost on most people...including me till I posted this).  So cover or not, just shoot him.  If he moved up into the center, all you have to do is stay about 26" inches away from the center and blaze him up with your 30" weapons.  You should be able to shoot him while he will not be able to bring much firepower to bare on you.  This works particularly well if he goes first since it means on the very last turn, you  can move up a skimmer or something to take (or contest) the objective at the end of the game and there isn't anything he can do about it.  So, in short, pop his transports, back up out of his range, and then blast him.  End result, you win.

If I'm reading this correctly, the guy isn't using the transports to gain cover saves, but to get out to an early lead and preserve it by blocking line of sight to his forces. If the guy kills more than his opponent on the first turn, plops onto the objective, and the only thing that dies from that point on are his non-scoring transports, he's essentially won.

The thing is, I highly doubt five chassis are enough to completely encircle him. Your first order of business ought to be to pop all those transports (really, all you have to do is immobilize them, and take the main guns off the Razorbacks) so that he can't readjust, and so that you don't have Razorback turrets firing back at you. You have to do it quick, though, so that you're not wasting rounds of shooting. After that, any unit you've got with jetpacks ought to be able to hang around the edges of his castle, popping off shots at him while remaining in relative safety. You could also load up on Smart Missiles and plink away at him from outside line of sight. The special issue AFP would do nicely as well. Additionally, if you come at him from his blind side, you might be able to sneak some big mobs of Kroot into those wrecks to riddle him with rifle fire. If he charges you, that's a crapload of cheap strike-first attacks coming back at him thanks to the cover. Just hang back with most of your force to avoid any move-and-shoot fire which may come your way if he decides to hop into the vehicle wrecks. Unless he's got Terminators or Assault Marines, that should be 12" from the outer edge of his wrecks (the odd Storm Bolter shouldn't be too big a deal). If at any point the bulk of his force comes out to play, that's when you move to the strategies the others mentioned above. Here are a few things I'd recommend for the army list:

-Lots of battlesuits, either Stealth or Fireknife; a team of Deathrain suits may be a good idea in this instance too, to take out those transports in the first turn or two. Here's a config I would recommend: Shas'Vre w/ Twin Missile, AFP, HW Target Lock + Crisis x2 w/ Twin Missile, Flamer
-Hammerheads w/ Railgun and SMS
-Devilfish w/ SMS
-Kroot

So, more or less, your typically approved tournament-caliber Tau list, with a few variations here and there.

I played against this guy in March and tied him for first place at Panda. This was the first time he used this tactic. He is a good player but very cautious and no fun at all to play. But then again tournaments aren't supposed to be fun. Any way....he didn't end up killing much first round and I immobilized 2 of his razorbacks first turn. thus the door remained open. My Warriors teleported around taking out whatever they could. His work horses are his Land Speeder Tornadoes. The whole army works around them. I killed 2 of them and last turn only managed to stun the 3rd. He takes very good care of thesm. His venerable dreads has lascannons but uses them mainly for counter charge as he doesnt waste points for cc ability in his squads. Best thing you can do is deploy entirely out of sight. Make him come to you exposing his Land Speeders. Problem is Tau want a ranged fight. Have a squad of Kroot Infiltrate on each side of him. or those new Vespids would piss him off. There were 7 Lascannons in this army, and I think only 25 Marines. 5 Scouts. I'd say his list is fragile but he has learned how to use it very well.

Hmm At the GT a friend of mine played this john beck character.. John, if youre reading this.. you have a seriously bad rep

Luckily for me my guard got absolutely trounced first game and didnt have to face any power gamers all tourney. Thats what I get for fielding guard against a drop termy army with Fear of the Darkness, and the mission is seek and destroy.. lost by 3100 vps hahaha I think i ended up last in battlepoints and 3rd last overall. Not my worst tourney either! (0-7 at the 2000 gt)

Don't get me wrong. John is a friend of mine and a good guy...outside of wargaming. Some people are just power gamers, its the way they are.

-Use twin-link miisile pod with targetting array they are deadly against rhino
-Firewarrior are able to pop rhino at 30 inches
-stealth are even better because they get more shot on the first turn
-If you cannot shoot him behind the rhino. he won't be able to shoot your pirhana with fusion blaster that will penetrate the rhino. Your troop stay out of reach of assault.

-use terrain to get your hammerhead in altitude to have target over the rhino once they are wrecked
-You will get him in the long run since by turn 6 his army will have lost a lot of model. Tank shock the objective with your transport that won't score anyway and move your hammerhead and pirhana on the objective.

In the first turn that army should have lost normally half his rhino and some of his tank. You may be unlucky and get a lot of may not shoot effect on the rhino but it migth be better and destroy most of them in one round. With the tau you have the firepower to do it since everything except kroot can affect the rhino on the frond and side.